Ron Cook: Finest moment for Mike Tomlin as Steelers coach

[Captain Lemming]

Again. People can't talk about Tomlin without bringing Cowher into this. The fact that Cowher must be introduced into the conversation means that you can't defend Tomlin on his own merit.

Your FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD mentioned Cowher FIVE TIMES. You are in effect openning the Cowher vs Tomlin debate. YOU introduced Switzer situation as analogous to Tomlin. THEREFORE it is perfectly reasonable to make the solid point that Switzer who YOU liken to Tomlin BEAT Cowhers team.

You cannot now run and hide from the very figures YOU pulled into the conversation.

[Captain Lemming]

so nobody can ever be compared to anybody until their careers are over?

Had we judged BC at this poijnt in his career he would be labelled unable to win the big one. Ditto for John Elway the QB.
Would that be fair?

[squidkid]

Had we judged BC at this poijnt in his career he would be labelled unable to win the big one. Ditto for John Elway the QB.
Would that be fair?

he was labeled and i think its real fair and accurate to judge/compare somebody based on their past accomplishments. how else would you want to do it?

[Captain Lemming]

he was labeled and i think its real fair and accurate to judge/compare somebody based on their past accomplishments. how else would you want to do it?

To label Cowher as "unable to win the big one" would have been premature. Time proved that.

How would "I" do it?

If you are going to compare a current coach to a retired coach who coached TWICE as long you look at their record during the same span:

It is SHOCKINGLY even IMHO. 1st 6 seasons:

Overall record.


Regular season: Cowher 64-32, Tomlin 63-33


Playoffs: Tomlin 5-3, Cowher 5-6


Division titles: Cowher 5, Tomlin 3


Playoff appearances: Cowher 6, Tomlin 4


Advance to divisional round of playoffs (final : Cowher 5, Tomlin 2


Record in AFC championship game: Tomlin 2 wins 0 losses, Cowher 1 win 2 losses


Super Bowl: Tomlin 1 win 1 loss, Cowher 0 wins 1 loss.


Inherited quality core players.


Cowher: Rod Woodson, Gregg Lloyd, Dermonti Dawson, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, Eric Green


Tomlin: Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes

[Vader]

Your FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD mentioned Cowher FIVE TIMES. You are in effect openning the Cowher vs Tomlin debate. YOU introduced Switzer situation as analogous to Tomlin. THEREFORE it is perfectly reasonable to make the solid point that Switzer who YOU liken to Tomlin BEAT Cowhers team.

You cannot now run and hide from the very figures YOU pulled into the conversation.

You can't be this daft? The article was comparing them. So I just show how stupid the comparison was. Every time someone talks about Tomlin they try to throw Cowher in there to justify their position. I DID NOT introduce it. The ARTICLE did. You can't be that stupid? Can you?

[Captain Lemming]

You can't be this daft? The article was comparing them. So I just show how stupid the comparison was. Every time someone talks about Tomlin they try to throw Cowher in there to justify their position. I DID NOT introduce it. The ARTICLE did. You can't be that stupid? Can you?

You have been comparing them LONG BEFORE THIS THREAD. You give Cowher credit for Tomlins success, this is nothing new to this thread.
If YOU are making a pro Cowher case, Cowher is fair game.
You CANNOT mention Cowher REPEATEDLY as superior liken Tomlin to Switzer and then cry foul when someone used YOUR OWN ARGUMENT against you.

[Captain Lemming]

You can't be this daft? The article was comparing them. So I just show how stupid the comparison was. Every time someone talks about Tomlin they try to throw Cowher in there to justify their position. I DID NOT introduce it. The ARTICLE did. You can't be that stupid? Can you?

Better yet Vader, lets play ball by your rules:
YOU make your anti-Tomlin case without including ANY reference to the prior coach.

[Vader]

To label Cowher as "unable to win the big one" would have been premature. Time proved that.

How would "I" do it?

If you are going to compare a current coach to a retired coach who coached TWICE as long you look at their record during the same span:

It is SHOCKINGLY even IMHO. 1st 6 seasons:

Overall record.


Regular season: Cowher 64-32, Tomlin 63-33


Playoffs: Tomlin 5-3, Cowher 5-6


Division titles: Cowher 5, Tomlin 3


Playoff appearances: Cowher 6, Tomlin 4


Advance to divisional round of playoffs (final : Cowher 5, Tomlin 2


Record in AFC championship game: Tomlin 2 wins 0 losses, Cowher 1 win 2 losses


Super Bowl: Tomlin 1 win 1 loss, Cowher 0 wins 1 loss.


Inherited quality core players.


Cowher: Rod Woodson, Gregg Lloyd, Dermonti Dawson, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, Eric Green


Tomlin: Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes

More bull****. In the SB of 95 only 3 defensive players were left from Noll's era. That's Cowher's 4th season. In Tomlin's 5th season he still had 8 of 11 defensive players from Cowher's era. Cowher didn't miss the playoffs until 3 seasons later. Cowher rebuilt almost the entire defense BEFORE he made his first SB. Almost nobody is left from Noll's teams after the SB of 95. And they still make the playoffs the next 2 years. Then for the next 3 years the drafts suck. There is a huge issue with Cowher and Donahoe. Donahoe drafts Edwards over Cowher's objections and Cowher offers his resignation. Rooney allows Cowher more power and fires Donahoe.

Also what year did Dawson make his first pro-bowl? I'll help you out. It was 1992. How about Lake? He didn't make a pro-bowl until 1994. Woodson didn't even play the entire year they went to the SB. As Cowher's players retire the team gets worse. Tomlin inherited 5 pro-bowlers and 2 possible HOFers on offense and 5 pro-bowlers and at least 1 HOFer on defense. Not only the quality but the quantity was in Tomlin's favor.

[Vader]

Better yet Vader, lets play ball by your rules:
YOU make your anti-Tomlin case without including ANY reference to the prior coach.

All too easy. last 3 years. 12-4 and lost to the Tim Tebows (one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs), 8-8, and now 5-7.

[Captain Lemming]

All too easy. last 3 years. 12-4 and lost to the Tim Tebows (one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs), 8-8, and now 5-7.

Had he been hired 2 years ago, you'd have a point.
But he wasnt, so you are not talking about Tomlin.

You cannot make a remotely reasonable case to fire 4 time playoff, 2 time superbowl, one time champ, Tomlin without bringing up his predecessor.

[Vader]

Had he been hired 2 years ago, you'd have a point.
But he wasnt, so you are not talking about Tomlin.

You cannot make a remotely reasonable case to fire 4 time playoff, 2 time superbowl, one time champ, Tomlin without bringing up his predecessor.

Where did I ever say to fire him. Just give me ONE quote. You can't so again you don't know what you are talking about. As usual with you. You throw out **** but can't back it up. Show me ONE quote and I'll apologize.

[feltdizz]

Where did I ever say to fire him. Just give me ONE quote. You can't so again you don't know what you are talking about. As usual with you. You throw out **** but can't back it up. Show me ONE quote and I'll apologize.

So all these knocks on Tomlin are because you want to keep him? Interesting...

[Vader]

So all these knocks on Tomlin are because you want to keep him? Interesting...

I never said to fire him. Show me the quote. I don't think he is that great of a coach. As I pointed out. But I never said he should be fired. But keep up with the snide remarks.. interesting indeed.

[feltdizz]

I never said to fire him. Show me the quote. I don't think he is that great of a coach. As I pointed out. But I never said he should be fired. But keep up with the snide remarks.. interesting indeed.

Its a logical conclussion given your constant criticism...

man up.

[Slapstick]

Try keeping up. I posted a picture of Switzer because he is very similar to Tomlin. Both inherited teams that had won a SB and then they won a SB with the previous coaches players. Kind of like John Gruden in Tampa Bay. Cowher didn't do that. So there is NO comparison. But thanks for trying.

Just like Cowher won with Noll's players...then had a few non-playoff seasons...