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The facts suggest that rookies do see the field under Lebeau. A couple of rookies and young players were on the field this season and in seasons in the past. When those players make mistakes and the defense doesn't perform up to the level of expectation then fans are quick to call players busts and call for coaches to be fired. This is a defense that is in a transitional phase from losing some really good/great players over the past 3 or 4 years. It's difficult to replace the caliber of players the team lost. No matter how hard the organization tries they may never be able to replace players like Smith, Hampton, Farrior, or Harrison. They definitely won't be able to replace Polamalu once he retires or moves on. I am just glad the organization has a more logical grasp of the situation then some of the fans.
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Are you referring to the time Cowher benched Ike? If so, even other players on the team thought it was an unfair and felt like Ike was made the scapegoat.
I view Lebeau like Larry Brown in the NBA. Brown refused to play rookies and benched contributors based on nothing more than a gut feeling. Lebeau doesn't hate rookies... but he hates to play them early and if given the option he will probably put experience before talent regardless of the gap.
This worked for years... but it hasn't worked lately and it won't work moving forward. We have seen records fall left and right with this D. We missed on a few in 2008 or 09 but regardless, we weren't ready for the transition because we put faith in old vets.
I love Lebeau but I think his time is up. We don't have the luxury of waiting for years and hoping a few guys pan out in year 3 or 4.... and is it really that unrealistic to want to see a rookie make splash plays his rookie year? I talked to a friend the other day and we had the same question. Why the hell can other teams field a rookie who makes an impact while ours takes a year or 2 to bulk up, speed up, catch up. People say rookies don't make impacts their first year but that is OUR history... not the history of rookies around the league. No reason why we have to go back to Kendrell freaking Bell to point out a rookie defender who made a name for himself.Steelers 27
Rats 16Comment
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Lebeau hasn't refused to play rookies. Sheesshhhh pay more attention. Several rookies and young players saw the field this season. However, it is preferable to have experienced players on the field. Most people in life prefer to work with experienced people if possible. There is generally a learning curve for inexperience professionals.
People generally paint themselves into a corner to eat crow when they state or believe, "this worked for years...but hasn't worked lately and it won't work moving forward." Remember losing great players and transitional phase.
The BIGGEST reason why records of any sort are falling is due to the emphasis the league has place on offensive football/scoring over the years. Player mistakes in execution/responsibilities were generally responsible for the defensive lapses that took place for the Steelers.
What's missing in your thought process is that it isn't about a rookie making a name for himself but the overall success of the defense. The fact remains that this defense has been CONSISTENTLY been one of the best since Lebeau has been DC. The defense is going through a transitional phase where they lost several good/great players. Just last season the defense was 6th in ppg. How soon you forgot.
2004 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
2005 defense 4th in ppg (SB winner)
2006 defense 11th in ppg
2007 defense 2nd in ppg (playoffs)
2008 defesne 1st in ppg (Historic Defensive, SB winner)
2009 defense 12th in ppg
2010 defense 1st in ppg (SB loser)
2011 defense 1st in ppg (playoffs)
2012 defense 6th in ppg
2013 defense 14th in ppg
Damn and spoiled fan base is all I can say about some of the defensive efforts that we've witnessed under Leabeau.
It will be difficult to find a team to match the consistency of a Leabeau coached defense since he returned as Steelers DC. The Steelers haven't made the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense since 2004.
One of the biggest issues on this team has been the offenses inability to score points with the best offenses in the league on a consistent basis. For that I lay at the feet of the QB for refusing to adjust his style of play. Ben showed signs of changing his style during this season. We will see what happens next season.Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 01-03-2014, 03:45 PM.Comment
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When he was drafted, the dilemma surrounding his slow 40-time, was whether there was ever a guy picked that high ever posted such a slow 40. A lot of people mentioned Suggs, but discounted the comparison because he weighed significantly more. Interestingly, there is a comparable player that I found, in my research. (Basically, my "research" consists of me having the draft books over the years, in my bathroom. And while I'm on the hopper, I read them.)
Anyway, Aaron Maybin from PSU was the #12 pick in the '09 draft. Like Jarvis, he was coming off a big year, and was touted as a fast, pass-rushing prospect. He showed up at the Combine (he bulked up), and proceeded to run a 4.88. He did significantly improve on that time at his Pro Day, but I think it is noteworthy because it struck me as similar to JJ. He was considered field fast, yet he timed so slow. He also quickly realized that he wasn't strong enough--and he's now out of the league. I wonder if any of you remember Maybin (from his PSU days), and how you would compare/contrast him to JJ.
I hope it doesn't say anything about our guy... I just thought it interesting, during my "research".I wasn't hired for my disposition.Comment
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Just because his D has worked in the past doesn't mean it translates to now. Have you noticed all the passing records being blown out of the water this season? That tells me the game has changed but Lebooo hasn't. Having CBs playing 10 yards of a WR on 3rd and 5 is simply moronic. He even had the CBs playing way off the WR near the goal line. That is even more retarded, and the accouncers even made mention of it.Comment
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The past is the past. The game is rapidly changing but LeBeau wants to do what he did in 2008 with completely different players and the game being called completely differently. Add in the decreasing number of sacks and INTs over the past 3-4 years and you can se this defense can't make the impact it did in 2008."My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"Comment
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But that isn't what is happening...LeBeau made adjustments to his scheme...the adjustments worked....Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.Comment
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So Ben needed to change but Lebeau doesn't need to because of his success in the past? Gotcha...
As far as DL goes.... no one is disputing his resume over the years but these last few have been below average. With the new CBA we no longer have the luxury of 2 to 3 years before a player gets up to speed. Sure we played more rookies because we didnt have a choice but we will continue to struggle if they need a few years to grasp this D.
...and it IS about rookies making a name for themselves. Yay team and all of that but if these rookies dont shine then WE won't shine as a team. If they don't make a name they aren't seeing the field... if they aren't seeing the field they will jump ship after the first contract.
Brownmade a name for himself, Wallace made a name for himself, Bell has made a name for himself, Troy, JH, Woodley, etc.... these rookies BETTER make names for themselves or WE will continue to be a .500 team watching younger team's run past us because we are being held hostage by old stats.
I like Lebeau... a lot. However, if this trend continues he needs to retire. Those ppg stats are cool but I watch every game. If we struggle to get pressure, struggle to keep youth on the field, struggle to get stops on 3rd and 9 on critical possessions and struggle against the zone read and keep that freaking 10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 its a wrap.Steelers 27
Rats 16Comment
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So answer this; what team do you consider the best in the 'new generation' of defense? Seattle?, Carolina?, San Fran? Cleveland? (had a high ranking defense this season with Horton installing LeBeaus defense).
What do these teams have that the Steelers don't? They are all highly ranked in Rec Yds Against/att.
How about % of passes caught against? If the Steelers are really 'tackling the catch' this number should rank them at the bottom, correct?
Well it might surprise a few:
The Steelers were 10th in the NFL in Rec Yds Against/attempt. (11.1 yds, Seattle #1 9.9 yds.... think about that! The number one defense against the pass was allowing almost 10 yds per attempt!!)
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% of passes caught against?.... the Steelers were 5th best in the league at 58%. (those great Seahawks???... allowed 60% of passes caught).
All this means to me is there were a few bad plays or games this season. So what? ...every team has them. The Steelers defensive scheme is fine, it's the effect of league rules that Steeler fans don't like, more passing, more yards....Comment
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The difference between the Seattle D and ours is physicality. They are called the Legend of Boom. Only thing we are called is old.
All you have to do is watch the [URL="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/SEA/seattle-seahawks"]Seahawks[/URL] and you can recognize they play physical football. What is interesting is that win, lose or draw, the team that plays them loses the next week.
I noticed how lethargic the Colts looked on Monday night in their loss to the Chargers. San Diego was running right through the defense and the Colts never got in sync. I went back and looked at every team that Seattle faced and looked at how they played the following week. All six teams lost the following week.
Carolina lost to Buffalo, San Francisco lost to Indianapolis, Jacksonville lost to Indianapolis, Houston lost to San Francisco and Indianapolis lost to San Diego. What was striking about the losses was the points scored and points given up. The six teams only generated a combined total of 45 points the week after their Seattle encounter (7.5 points per team) and they gave up 23.5 points per team.
Tennessee lost to Seattle last week and now host the 49ers. It looks like it could be seven in a row.
The difference between us and Carolina.... ppg. Carolina gave up 15 ppg. We gave up 23. By the way... Seattle gave up 14.4.
Turnovers... Seattle 39, San Fran 30, Carolina 31.. Steelers 20.
Carolina and San Fran are also more physical...
Oh... and we are older than all those other teams on D.
Last edited by feltdizz; 01-05-2014, 11:08 AM.Steelers 27
Rats 16Comment
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The Lebeau coached defense performed at a high level consistently. Ben struggled with consistency. As a result, the offense never performed at the level of top offenses in the league from a consistency stand point. Based on the offensive and defensive rankings over the years who needed to adjust/improve more? Ben or Lebeau? The defense only had one way to go. Can't bethe number one defense or a top 5 defense every year. Having a top 5 ppg defense 70% of the time is pretty good though.
Uncharacteristic big plays were the biggest issue for the defense this season. Players give up big plays mostly due to poor execution.
The defense always played rookies. It's rare that rookies come into the league and have a huge impact. It's not only about grasping the defense. Rookie defensive players must also learn how to cope with the speed of the game. The must also deal with offenses that throw multiple personnel packages and formations. Making the transition from college to the pros isn't as easy as some of you want to believe. Most players that come out of college are NOT ready to play at a high level right away in the NFL. There will always be an adjustment period for players. That adjustment period will be different for each player. Based on my observations that's generally things how play our around the league. It took 2 or 3 seasons for the players you mentioned to make a name for themselves.
The ppg stat is the most important stat for a defense. Regardless of the number of sacks, turnovers, ect. the Steelers didn't make the playoffs without a top 5 ppg defense since 2004.
One season doesn't constitute a trend my friend.
Lebeau is going to retire eventually so you will have your wish. Steelers fans are spoiled.
Last edited by BURGH86STEEL; 01-05-2014, 11:13 AM.Comment
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The key to playing D in today's game is having physical DBs who can intimidate, knock WRs off of routes, come up and play the run. That coupled with a fierce pass rush. When you have those things, it knocks an O out of rythym...and guys like Manning don't have an answer. Yes, they will exploit the deep ball from time to time, but it beats having a team control the clock and the rhythm of the game.Trolls are people too.Comment
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Basically what you are saying is it's about the players ability to execute. Putting a defense like that together is difficult. Keeping a defense like that together with the free agency is even more difficult.
Combine FA and offensive slanted rules and the days of consistently dominating defenses year in year out are probably over.Comment
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The game has changed over the past five years, rapidly and significantly. Would be interesting to compare the 2008 rules to the 2013 rules, compare the fines and sanctions given by the Goodell Administratio 2008 vs 2013, and the stats on passing, rushing, and penalties 2008 vs 2013. They might give measurement to the extent of change.
They say they want to protect the players, but what are they doing to protect the OL and DL in the trenches where headshots are absorbed frequently?
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