Jarvis Jones

[Shoe]

I don't see why your associating gaining strength and losing speed. I dropped 25 pounds and was stronger than I was when I was heavier. If you bulk up.. then yes, you might get a bit slower but not necessarily. It depends...

I don't see how JJ gaining strength will make him slower. In fact, I think he could add a bit more bulk as well without losing speed. He has the frame to easily carry 10 more pounds of lean muscle. He's taller than most think: 6'2.

Of course adding size doesn't automatically make you lose speed. But (as you said), IT CAN. The previous commenters (who I was making the comment toward) seem to think it is as easy as pie, to get stronger. Keep in mind, the guy has been in a major college weight room environment for years. Its not like he hasn't had the wieght room exposure already (i.e. coming from a podunk little university, I could see where a world-class weight program could dramatically increase the guy's strength).

Jarvis will gain strength; we all sort of do as our body matures (i.e. old man strength). But, I don't see him dramatically improving his strength, by simply going into the weight room.

[phillyesq]

I don't think anyone wants instant stardom. I've never advocated. I really expected more than one sack and I think it is legitimate to simply discuss with what we have seen so far can he be an elite pass rusher in the Kevin Greene mold or will be be a equal or lesser version of Worilds? That just legit discussion. His lack of speed and power are a legit concern.

Everyone acts like after this off season he will be able to compete in the World's Strongest Man competition. His body type is lean. He will likely never have Harrison's power which isn't bad if you have speed. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have that either.

No one wants him to fail because after burning a 1st Round pick on him it will set this defense back for years and therefore the team we all love suffers.

This guy had one sack as a rookie and turned out ok:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/player/cameronjordan/2495184/profile[/url]

Here is another slow starter who turned it on:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/player/greghardy/496792/profile[/url]

Incidentally, these guys both started slowly despite playing in a 4-3.

Here is another example:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/player/robertmathis/2505566/profile[/url]

[focosteeler]

wasn't james harrison really slow coming out of college? wasn't he too small? wasn't he too weak? didn't he only have one move? how'd that work out?

James ran a 5.2 forty at his pro day...but did 28 bench reps

Slow...YES
Weak...nonono

[Shoe]

This guy had one sack as a rookie and turned out ok:

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/player/cameronjordan/2495184/profile[/URL]

Here is another slow starter who turned it on:

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/player/greghardy/496792/profile[/URL]

Incidentally, these guys both started slowly despite playing in a 4-3.

Here is another example:

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/player/robertmathis/2505566/profile[/URL]

Yes, and for every one of those, I'm sure I could cite guys who started slowly in their career, and they never got better. That isn't the point we're making here (or at least I'm not). I'm in the opinion that Jones will get better, and maybe even become a star. BUT... people who are acting like it is of NO concern, that is ridiculous. How can you not be concerned a little bit?

[birtikidis]

James ran a 5.2 forty at his pro day...but did 28 bench reps

Slow...YES
Weak...nonono

for only having one move (bullrush), he was weak. I don't care who you are, you can bench 225 100x's for all I care, bench press does not mean you're football strong.

[sick beats]

Of course adding size doesn't automatically make you lose speed. But (as you said), IT CAN. The previous commenters (who I was making the comment toward) seem to think it is as easy as pie, to get stronger. Keep in mind, the guy has been in a major college weight room environment for years. Its not like he hasn't had the wieght room exposure already (i.e. coming from a podunk little university, I could see where a world-class weight program could dramatically increase the guy's strength).

Jarvis will gain strength; we all sort of do as our body matures (i.e. old man strength). But, I don't see him dramatically improving his strength, by simply going into the weight room.

He looked like he never touched a weight last season. This year, he will lift and probably will be on juice and/or HGH, so he will be much bigger and stronger.

[sick beats]

for only having one move (bullrush), he was weak. I don't care who you are, you can bench 225 100x's for all I care, bench press does not mean you're football strong.

It doesn't _MEAN_ you are necessarily football strong, but being super weak on bench means you definitely aren't football strong. It is not the perfect indicator of you being a strong football player, but if you are lame as hell under that bar, you are weak over all. Any none-slender player (WR, CB) better do at least 15 reps, or it's an indication that said player is just too weak. If a LB can't do at least 15 reps, he is gonna be too weak to do much of anything. Add on top, that most any draft pick trains for the combo, and it's even a more telling indicator if they can't pump out reps.

[focosteeler]

for only having one move (bullrush), he was weak. I don't care who you are, you can bench 225 100x's for all I care, bench press does not mean you're football strong.

Harrison is/was known for his weight room work ethic. IIRC JJ isn't known for loving the weight room. BP numbers can show if a guy spends time in the weight room. If they spend time in the weight room that strength work will bleed over onto the field.

[birtikidis]

Harrison is/was known for his weight room work ethic. IIRC JJ isn't known for loving the weight room. BP numbers can show if a guy spends time in the weight room. If they spend time in the weight room that strength work will bleed over onto the field.

A lot of guys have been monsters in the weight room and Jane on the field. what's your point? It took James three teams and a ton of tries to catch on with a team. Maybe he was dumb. I don't know.

[focosteeler]

A lot of guys have been monsters in the weight room and Jane on the field. what's your point? It took James three teams and a ton of tries to catch on with a team. Maybe he was dumb. I don't know.

I agree that football strength and weight room strength are different things. And I understand that there have been guys who are extremely strong that fail in the NFL. This started because I said I believe that lack of strength wasn't one of JH problems. He put up solid BP numbers at his pro day. We all know that JH is football strong and also beasts it out in the weight room. I'm not saying that being weight room strong is the be-all end-all but chances are if you are strong in the weight room you can use that strength on the field.


It took JH time to learn the D plus he had to transition since he played DE in college. JJ played 3-4OLB in college so hopefully the mental part won't take as long. I think lack of overall strength is part of JJ's problem. I'm saying hopefully he can put his time in with the weights and that strength can help him on the field.

[birtikidis]

I agree that football strength and weight room strength are different things. And I understand that there have been guys who are extremely strong that fail in the NFL. This started because I said I believe that lack of strength wasn't one of JH problems. He put up solid BP numbers at his pro day. We all know that JH is football strong and also beasts it out in the weight room. I'm not saying that being weight room strong is the be-all end-all but chances are if you are strong in the weight room you can use that strength on the field.


It took JH time to learn the D plus he had to transition since he played DE in college. JJ played 3-4OLB in college so hopefully the mental part won't take as long. I think lack of overall strength is part of JJ's problem. I'm saying hopefully he can put his time in with the weights and that strength can help him on the field.

I agree that being in the weight room wasn't James weakness BUT the fact is that he didn't come to the NFL with a lot of technique. His one technique requires more than just bp strength. JJ may be weaker but he has a lot more technique than what James came into the NFL with. If you are going to beat LEGIT LT in the NFL, you have to have more than gaudy BP numbers.

[sick beats]

A lot of guys have been monsters in the weight room and Jane on the field. what's your point? It took James three teams and a ton of tries to catch on with a team. Maybe he was dumb. I don't know.

The JH story is well known: He had trouble learning the systems, even to the point of him taking himself off the field during practice, reportedly saying, "I can't f----g understand what I am supposed to do" at Steelers' camp. But least we forget, it all came together so well for him that he won DMVP of the entire league at one point. In his prime, he was the very best OLB that the Steelers ever had. I have no doubt.

[Slapstick]

You know who is a beast in the weight room?

Ziggy Hood...

[phillyesq]

It doesn't _MEAN_ you are necessarily football strong, but being super weak on bench means you definitely aren't football strong. It is not the perfect indicator of you being a strong football player, but if you are lame as hell under that bar, you are weak over all. Any none-slender player (WR, CB) better do at least 15 reps, or it's an indication that said player is just too weak. If a LB can't do at least 15 reps, he is gonna be too weak to do much of anything. Add on top, that most any draft pick trains for the combo, and it's even a more telling indicator if they can't pump out reps.

Jones did 20 reps on the bench. For a comparison, Warren Sapp did 17.

[birtikidis]

You know who is a beast in the weight room?

Ziggy Hood...

That is exactly my point.