7 games into the season and it's time to talk draft

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I don't think you could say "reaching for starters" when you talk about Steelers early picks. Especially when the Steelers haven't relied to get them on the field day 1 over the last several years. Some have shown up early & forced their hand but they don't look to the draft for "22" in that year...They look to build. The Steelers have been pretty sound & true to their form in the 1st round. That is a formula many fans hate and will be quick to point out the failure or hindsight when there is a prospect behind that stands out. 2nd round players seem to be where they look to try & fill a need for near future...But I don't see glaring reaches there either. If there is someone there they want but don't think will be there next time around...That's not a reach if they can't trade back. That's just the numbers game. 2nd round prospects are many times players that have "something" that pushed them down. It isn't often where there are a pure 32+ 1st round talents. More often there are the 1st rounders...And then the rest. It seems to be in the Steelers case the biggest source for criticism because of the hits in the 1st more often then not and find late round talent that ends up being huge contributors.

[Shawn]

I'll agree a mean streak is a solid trait for an OL-DL or a football player in general. However, simple demeanor doesn't dismiss a player. You are acting like you & 31 other teams tagged Adams & Gilbert soft and the Steelers were blind which wasn't the case Both put on tape high round skills. Consistency & other negative traits graded them to 2nd.

Players get put under the microscope through the process. Negative things are said about all prospects...That is just how it works. Jarvis Jones had questions about his work ethic. His tape made you ignore that. If he ends up being a bust are people going to crap on the Steelers again because it was somewhere in print? Of course...It will be the same people who want to say "I told you so". That is the only time they come out. You don't see them come out when they are wrong which numbers more. For every case of failure there is a success story. That is what we call the "Draft". Hindsight doesn't make you right. It makes you juvenile if you hit 1 out of 10 and want to jump up & down and say I told you so. It isn't your opinion that offends people.

JPN, you obviously take issue with me saying I seen something the scouts didn't see in Adams. If that rubs you the wrong way, I'm sorry. With that said, unlike some I'm not under the delusion that I am a scouting expert. I get more wrong than I get right. But generally speaking, I do pretty good when it comes to Buckeyes because of exposure. I have watched them more than the scouts. There are many sources I trust when it comes to getting information on Buckeye players including attitude. I'm not sure how thorough a scout can be when scouting hundreds of players. Adams was never known as a leader, having a strong work ethic, or being even remotely consistent. There were some calling him lazy and soft. He displayed very poor judgment as well when it came to the whole tattoo incident. He would dominate some games, then give up two sacks the next. I got so frustrating watching him get abused by lesser athletes. I'm not sure how that grades out to the second round. But, like I said...I'm not an expert.

He was a 6th round pick in a top 10 picks body. Once in awhile I get one right. Not sure why you have made it your personal mission to "humble me" when I make a comment about our scouting department...which IMO has had some questionable calls as of late. But, I suppose that is your right.

[phillyesq]

Lawrence Timmons, Ziggy Hood, Rashard Mendenhall, Limas Sweed, Jason Worilds, Sean Spence,.... trading up for a punter. etc

It is debatable whether these guys were reaches. Aside from Worilds, I don't think that most of them were. Even if they were reaches, they were not reaches for need. None of these guys (except perhaps Timmons) was expected to play as a rookie. They were all viewed as picks for down the road to develop behind aging starters.

Ziggy - Aaron Smith
Mendenhall - FWP
Worilds - Harrison and Woodley
Sweed - Ward
Spence - Foote

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

JPN, you obviously take issue with me saying I seen something the scouts didn't see in Adams. If that rubs you the wrong way, I'm sorry. With that said, unlike some I'm not under the delusion that I am a scouting expert. I get more wrong than I get right. But generally speaking, I do pretty good when it comes to Buckeyes because of exposure. I have watched them more than the scouts. There are many sources I trust when it comes to getting information on Buckeye players including attitude. I'm not sure how thorough a scout can be when scouting hundreds of players. Adams was never known as a leader, having a strong work ethic, or being even remotely consistent. There were some calling him lazy and soft. He displayed very poor judgment as well when it came to the whole tattoo incident. He would dominate some games, then give up two sacks the next. I got so frustrating watching him get abused by lesser athletes. I'm not sure how that grades out to the second round. But, like I said...I'm not an expert.

He was a 6th round pick in a top 10 picks body. Once in awhile I get one right. Not sure why you have made it your personal mission to "humble me" when I make a comment about our scouting department...which IMO has had some questionable calls as of late. But, I suppose that is your right.

I not disputing the negative things that were said...Again that is part of the process for all of them. There were also positives. Mayock said he thought Adams was the most physically gifted OTs in this draft but was inconsistent. He sat with a 2nd round grade & I saw his tape and didn't question the Steelers pick. I'm a Big 10 guy myself & watched Adams allot. I wouldn't know what happened in the background perhaps as much as you because I'm a PSU guy. However, everything you stated came out in the draft process so nothing is new to me. Like I said, I'm more critical of PSU guys because I am a fan & very seldom are high on someone coming out of there. So I understand the validity of your argument.


I'm not offended by your opinion. What follows isn't meant to offend you. We will have to agree to disagree. No use arguing anymore since both are on the roster and logging snaps. The Steelers haven't given up on either of them & I don't think they will in 2014. I don't root against any Steelers regardless of my feelings of them coming out & this past draft is a model of that. The reference to be "Humble" has allot to do with that. Both Adams & Gilbert are still here and I wouldn't be jumping up & down just yet. You could look like a fool if it turns out good & you should hope that happens as a Steelers fan. I didn't say I was taking it upon myself to humble you. Just some advice...Take it or leave it. A "man" would shake his head & say to himself "Good Job!" instead of beating on his chest to get attention. Because that same "man" knows the ones who beat on the chest are the ones that need to. Your time may or may not come and that is your right to do with it as you wish.

[feltdizz]

I'm still scratching my head over this Adams debate... Shawn NEVER said he was happy about Adams playing as predicted and pretty much put an *I hope I'm proven wrong* in all of his post about him.

Even if he pans out in a few years it pretty much ran the course Shawn predicted. We were looking for a solid fix NOW on out OL... not 4 or 5 years later.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I'm still scratching my head over this Adams debate... Shawn NEVER said he was happy about Adams playing as predicted and pretty much put an *I hope I'm proven wrong* in all of his post about him.

Even if he pans out in a few years it pretty much ran the course Shawn predicted. We were looking for a solid fix NOW on out OL... not 4 or 5 years later.

That isn't what we are arguing about so that explains your head scratching. Stating we need help now on the OL isn't the question either...To use Tomlin's favorite word..."Obviously". We will have to see how Adams responds. Starks lost his starting job to Colon and responded well. Let's hope the same. If Gilbert can't stay healthy Adams may take his job. I do believe both will be here for 2014 through the preseason. If they draft a LT high, they might be in competition with each other for the RT job in camp. Then we may see Gilbert getting reps at G for position flexibility.

[Vader]

It is debatable whether these guys were reaches. Aside from Worilds, I don't think that most of them were. Even if they were reaches, they were not reaches for need. None of these guys (except perhaps Timmons) was expected to play as a rookie. They were all viewed as picks for down the road to develop behind aging starters.

Ziggy - Aaron Smith
Mendenhall - FWP
Worilds - Harrison and Woodley
Sweed - Ward
Spence - Foote

Very few teams start rookies.. ever. But that doesn't mean teams don't reach for needs. Drafting for need means you are drafting a player that you need to start soon (not this very minute) over a better player at another position. Hood is a perfect need pick. Smith was ailing and they needed someone to take over soon. Hood is drafted above other players at other positions simply because they needed a DL. Understand that 2009 had 2 good ILBers that would be there to replace an aging Farrior. James Laurinaitis who has started every game of his 4+ year career and Rey Maualuga.

You keep drafting like this and you get 8-8 and 3-6.

[Shawn]

I not disputing the negative things that were said...Again that is part of the process for all of them. There were also positives. Mayock said he thought Adams was the most physically gifted OTs in this draft but was inconsistent. He sat with a 2nd round grade & I saw his tape and didn't question the Steelers pick. I'm a Big 10 guy myself & watched Adams allot. I wouldn't know what happened in the background perhaps as much as you because I'm a PSU guy. However, everything you stated came out in the draft process so nothing is new to me. Like I said, I'm more critical of PSU guys because I am a fan & very seldom are high on someone coming out of there. So I understand the validity of your argument.


I'm not offended by your opinion. What follows isn't meant to offend you. We will have to agree to disagree. No use arguing anymore since both are on the roster and logging snaps. The Steelers haven't given up on either of them & I don't think they will in 2014. I don't root against any Steelers regardless of my feelings of them coming out & this past draft is a model of that. The reference to be "Humble" has allot to do with that. Both Adams & Gilbert are still here and I wouldn't be jumping up & down just yet. You could look like a fool if it turns out good & you should hope that happens as a Steelers fan. I didn't say I was taking it upon myself to humble you. Just some advice...Take it or leave it. A "man" would shake his head & say to himself "Good Job!" instead of beating on his chest to get attention. Because that same "man" knows the ones who beat on the chest are the ones that need to. Your time may or may not come and that is your right to do with it as you wish.

I never once beat my chest over any of this...and hence you raising my eye with your diatribes. I may have got one right. If you think I have any sort of investment from an ego standpoint, then you don't know me. So, how about we just talk football instead of getting personal and giving life advice. Because in my book that reeks of arrogance. And like yourself I'm entitled to my opinions, but when they come to board personalities I tend to keep that to myself.

[Oviedo]

Mine should be the 99th post to this thread and I struggle to remember what it started out to be since it turned into a manhood contest fifty posts ago. Can we talk about the draft yet

[Shawn]

Mine should be the 99th post to this thread and I struggle to remember what it started out to be since it turned into a manhood contest fifty posts ago. Can we talk about the draft yet

Don't I wish.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I never once beat my chest over any of this...and hence you raising my eye with your diatribes. I may have got one right. If you think I have any sort of investment from an ego standpoint, then you don't know me. So, how about we just talk football instead of getting personal and giving life advice. Because in my book that reeks of arrogance. And like yourself I'm entitled to my opinions, but when they come to board personalities I tend to keep that to myself.

Your posts after the draft about Adams & your posts in here I perceived as "beating your chest." When you post "Second, you and the scouts were wrong about Adams" I take that in a condescending nature. If that wasn't your intention...So be it. Just like I don't know you...You don't know me. I wasn't touting Adams to be a Steelers pick. Since he was a Steeler...I support it. I thought you were provoking an argument by stating I was wrong. Since you were off...You get the argument. So instead of getting personal you call me arrogant. Jab & Run. You can take me getting personal & my advice any way you want. Write me down in your book as arrogant since you called it. Your ignorance now draws the line in the dirt.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Mine should be the 99th post to this thread and I struggle to remember what it started out to be since it turned into a manhood contest fifty posts ago. Can we talk about the draft yet

Lay it out O. Inside top 10 LT...Outside top 10 what? You get the feeling the Steelers will be going down swinging no matter what. I think right now...If they end up outside the Top 10 & the top 3 OTs are gone they should consider the Top WR or Nix.

[Shawn]

Your posts after the draft about Adams & your posts in here I perceived as "beating your chest." When you post "Second, you and the scouts were wrong about Adams" I take that in a condescending nature. If that wasn't your intention...So be it. Just like I don't know you...You don't know me. I wasn't touting Adams to be a Steelers pick. Since he was a Steeler...I support it. I thought you were provoking an argument by stating I was wrong. Since you were off...You get the argument. So instead of getting personal you call me arrogant. Jab & Run. You can take me getting personal & my advice any way you want. Write me down in your book as arrogant since you called it. Your ignorance now draws the line in the dirt.

I just don't get why people want to get personal on message boards. But, you are entitled to do so. I done with this conversation.

[flippy]

Speaking of Adams, after his devastating block to spring Bell for a TD, anyone wanna give him another shot at T? If he could play with that nasty edge, he still could be very special. He's still a big dude who's strong as an ox. I think we just have to get his head in the game.

[Oviedo]

Lay it out O. Inside top 10 LT...Outside top 10 what? You get the feeling the Steelers will be going down swinging no matter what. I think right now...If they end up outside the Top 10 & the top 3 OTs are gone they should consider the Top WR or Nix.

Inside the top 10=left tackle

Outside the top 10=Nose Tackle or Cornerback. Wildcard would be QB.

We won't be picking below #15