7 games into the season and it's time to talk draft

[Oviedo]

Beachum has less than ideal height at 6'3" and although his arms aren't short 33 1/4" you would like to see OT arms 34" +. Jordan Gross was a pretty good LT at 6'4" and I'm sure we could find other examples...But the other side of the spectrum is 6'5"+ and it numbers plenty.

I'm with you though...I'm hoping Adams is the answer. The reason right not why Beachum is starting at LT is from the neck up. That is the frustrating part of the whole process from college, to evaluation, projection, & playing. You just can't project if that player will "Get It." If a player can't think fast...He will never play fast.

Adams is struggling in recognition. That is something you need to get down first because that filters negatively down through reaction & technique. Even when he gets the recognition & reaction right...He has to get more consistent with his technique especially his hands. He needs to punch first & then react. I can also see he needs to get stronger in his upper body because he is lunging & ducking his head when he tries to get his punch in. Can't bend at the waist & lunge. Have to bend your knees & keep you weight over your feet. Head up...Use your upper body & back to absorb the momentum and stay off your heels to move your feet to counter. #1 rule is punch & kill a speed rushers momentum. You have to attack speed rushers out of the gate negating his physical advantage. Adams is trying to position & punch because he is worried about the speed. In his mind, kicksliding & reacting will help him with the speed. In reality, you are allowing the defender to use his physical advantage by letting him get up to full speed. Speed equates to momentum & power. Now he has speed on you & gained power. It's harder to counter someone full speed when your hands aren't on him. What good is having long arms & power advantage if you don't use them. You often hear coaches tell young players they need to trust their eyes & be confident in the ability. Adams needs to see it, get their first, and believe he can win no matter what is thrown at him. That's it...That's what can't be coached. He can look like an All Pro in drills and be a textbook from what he was taught. He needs to believe in it come gametime or he will look like he is on roller skates until the day they cut him.

Excellent post and I think you are right on!

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

This was the year to get the help for Heath in the form of Tyler Eifert but we got a benched OLB. Yeah for us!

Through nine games, Eifert has 27 receptions (3 per game), 307 yards (34 per game), and one TD. He is not the leading TE on the team. This is a team that throws the ball 37 times a game, so despite the surrounding talent there should be many balls to go around.

Oh, and yesterday on the radio I heard a discussion asking if his QB is elite. And I keep hearing that the QB of the Steelers is awful and has cost us 5 games so far...so how much do you think that Eifert would be contributing in Pittsburgh? He may be a great one, but I don't think that he would be contributing all that much this year.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

It's funny. I watch other teams, other QBs play, and they get much more time to throw than the Steelers give Ben. When the QB does not have much time to throw, the commentators react as if it is an impossible situation for the QB to succeed on the play. Drop backs like that are more the norm than the exception for the Steelers this season.

Take the safety to end the game last night. I heard on NFLN a discussion in which the play was reviewed, and the final comment was something along the lines of it just being a great one-on-one play by Wake against Zeittler and that is why the play happened. I also saw a receiver cutting across the middle just a couple of yards downfield with nobody around him. Dalton could have dumped it across the line to him and hope that he can turn it into a first.

Ben sees this amount of pressure regularly! I would say that on at least 50% of his drop backs, the pressure hits at least that quickly. Spin it any way you want, but #7 operates under greatly different circumstances than any other successful QB.

That being said, there have to be two priorities for this off season. Number one, find someone to protect the QB. What is all of this talk about "maybe Beachum or Adams or Gilbert will suddenly improve"? Does somebody here have a magic wand that we are not aware of? Not one of these guys is even close to being a strong, consistent, blind side protector. I say get your franchise LT and pray that one of the three can become a RT.

The second is find somebody who can teach our linemen how to play offensive line in the NFL. Name one OL on this roster who has improved his game since arriving. I can name two...Kelin Beachum, Ramon Foster. One went from UDFA to okay starting LG. One went from late round pick to spot starter/quality backup. Pouncey, Gilbert, Adams, Decastro (although I can give him a temporary pass due to injury), Urbik (who could not succeed in Pittsburgh but did under other coaching) etc.

[Dee Dub]

It's funny. I watch other teams, other QBs play, and they get much more time to throw than the Steelers give Ben. When the QB does not have much time to throw, the commentators react as if it is an impossible situation for the QB to succeed on the play. Drop backs like that are more the norm than the exception for the Steelers this season.

Take the safety to end the game last night. I heard on NFLN a discussion in which the play was reviewed, and the final comment was something along the lines of it just being a great one-on-one play by Wake against Zeittler and that is why the play happened. I also saw a receiver cutting across the middle just a couple of yards downfield with nobody around him. Dalton could have dumped it across the line to him and hope that he can turn it into a first.

Ben sees this amount of pressure regularly! I would say that on at least 50% of his drop backs, the pressure hits at least that quickly. Spin it any way you want, but #7 operates under greatly different circumstances than any other successful QB.

That being said, there have to be two priorities for this off season. Number one, find someone to protect the QB. What is all of this talk about "maybe Beachum or Adams or Gilbert will suddenly improve"? Does somebody here have a magic wand that we are not aware of? Not one of these guys is even close to being a strong, consistent, blind side protector. I say get your franchise LT and pray that one of the three can become a RT.

The second is find somebody who can teach our linemen how to play offensive line in the NFL. Name one OL on this roster who has improved his game since arriving. I can name two...Kelin Beachum, Ramon Foster. One went from UDFA to okay starting LG. One went from late round pick to spot starter/quality backup. Pouncey, Gilbert, Adams, Decastro (although I can give him a temporary pass due to injury), Urbik (who could not succeed in Pittsburgh but did under other coaching) etc.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh!! You might confuse some Steeler fans about what Ben is playing with.

[NorthCoast]

Beachum has less than ideal height at 6'3" and although his arms aren't short 33 1/4" you would like to see OT arms 34" +. Jordan Gross was a pretty good LT at 6'4" and I'm sure we could find other examples...But the other side of the spectrum is 6'5"+ and it numbers plenty.

I'm with you though...I'm hoping Adams is the answer. The reason right not why Beachum is starting at LT is from the neck up. That is the frustrating part of the whole process from college, to evaluation, projection, & playing. You just can't project if that player will "Get It." If a player can't think fast...He will never play fast.

Adams is struggling in recognition. That is something you need to get down first because that filters negatively down through reaction & technique. Even when he gets the recognition & reaction right...He has to get more consistent with his technique especially his hands. He needs to punch first & then react. I can also see he needs to get stronger in his upper body because he is lunging & ducking his head when he tries to get his punch in. Can't bend at the waist & lunge. Have to bend your knees & keep you weight over your feet. Head up...Use your upper body & back to absorb the momentum and stay off your heels to move your feet to counter. #1 rule is punch & kill a speed rushers momentum. You have to attack speed rushers out of the gate negating his physical advantage. Adams is trying to position & punch because he is worried about the speed. In his mind, kicksliding & reacting will help him with the speed. In reality, you are allowing the defender to use his physical advantage by letting him get up to full speed. Speed equates to momentum & power. Now he has speed on you & gained power. It's harder to counter someone full speed when your hands aren't on him. What good is having long arms & power advantage if you don't use them. You often hear coaches tell young players they need to trust their eyes & be confident in the ability. Adams needs to see it, get their first, and believe he can win no matter what is thrown at him. That's it...That's what can't be coached. He can look like an All Pro in drills and be a textbook from what he was taught. He needs to believe in it come gametime or he will look like he is on roller skates until the day they cut him.

So with all these shortcomings, how is it that many board members were touting the Adams pick as a good one? (I for one was never sold on the guy.... and still not.)

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

So with all these shortcomings, how is it that many board members were touting the Adams pick as a good one? (I for one was never sold on the guy.... and still not.)

I think that while many here are college football fans and watch a lot, very few actually have a real grasp on each player, and often rely on the analysis of the media who cover the game as a whole.

Adams has that thing that football people drool over and can't be taught - prototypical size, and athleticism. That, and the whole story about him wanting to become a Steeler so badly that he drove to Pittsburgh to beg for a chance made a nice story, so it was easy to find the fairy tale ending to this story.

However, the one person on this board who had watched his entire college career, was far from sold, and mentioned it every chance he could. To paraphrase, Adams was called big, dumb, lazy, and has no passion for the game - despite his midnight dash to Steeler headquarters.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

The second is find somebody who can teach our linemen how to play offensive line in the NFL. Name one OL on this roster who has improved his game since arriving. I can name two...Kelin Beachum, Ramon Foster. One went from UDFA to okay starting LG. One went from late round pick to spot starter/quality backup. Pouncey, Gilbert, Adams, Decastro (although I can give him a temporary pass due to injury), Urbik (who could not succeed in Pittsburgh but did under other coaching) etc.

I think DeCastro has made a huge improvement during the course of this season. Don't know if it's partly due to coaching help, or not.

As I said, if we could get a real LT, I think our OL would be looking pretty good.

[Shawn]

I think that while many here are college football fans and watch a lot, very few actually have a real grasp on each player, and often rely on the analysis of the media who cover the game as a whole.

Adams has that thing that football people drool over and can't be taught - prototypical size, and athleticism. That, and the whole story about him wanting to become a Steeler so badly that he drove to Pittsburgh to beg for a chance made a nice story, so it was easy to find the fairy tale ending to this story.

However, the one person on this board who had watched his entire college career, was far from sold, and mentioned it every chance he could. To paraphrase, Adams was called big, dumb, lazy, and has no passion for the game - despite his midnight dash to Steeler headquarters.

i don't typically watch OL, but Adams caught my eye due to him being so highly touted out of HS and discussions with my dad about him. I watched him and watched him. I was probably as familiar with him as any scout. I'm not sure how any scout seen him as more than a 4-5th round prospect and even then as a project and based on his size. If someone like myself who played two years of pee wee football knew confidently that he was a bum, how did our scouts get it wrong? And we wonder why our OL is so bad? Well that is easy. Our OL scouting department is really bad.

[grotonsteel]

Great Posts Just Plain nasty...good reading...

[Oviedo]

I think we can officially focus on draft talk no matter what rah rah BS the Pep Band wants to put out every week.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

So with all these shortcomings, how is it that many board members were touting the Adams pick as a good one? (I for one was never sold on the guy.... and still not.)

I really don't think you can say ANY college player coming out is a finished product can you? Like in Adams case, he was inconsistent in his play & technique in college but he did show what he "could" be. If he wasn't inconsistent & a positive test he is a Top 15 pick imo. When you have a kid who has the stature of a model LT and shown some skills...You project what he could become within an NFL program. The only "risk" in the Adams pick was with the positive test. The 2nd round pick on projected talent was worth it. The hindsight if he fails is easy to bring up because it was a 2nd. If he turns into Orlando Pace people will bow to the pick. It is just the wonderful mystery of the NFL draft.

[Shawn]

I really don't think you can say ANY college player coming out is a finished product can you? Like in Adams case, he was inconsistent in his play & technique in college but he did show what he "could" be. If he wasn't inconsistent & a positive test he is a Top 15 pick imo. When you have a kid who has the stature of a model LT and shown some skills...You project what he could become within an NFL program. The only "risk" in the Adams pick was with the positive test. The 2nd round pick on projected talent was worth it. The hindsight if he fails is easy to bring up because it was a 2nd. If he turns into Orlando Pace people will bow to the pick. It is just the wonderful mystery of the NFL draft.

I agree and disagree. While every player is a project to one degree or another coming out of college. There are those who dominate at the college level. While domination at the college level is a reasonable indicator for NFL success, it certainly isn't fool proof at any position. With that said, players who are scrubs at the college level, rarely become good in the pros, just because they have protypical size.

In the case of Adams, I know no one here watched more of him than me. He played with a lack of passion, never played with a mean streak. He never played with urgency. He was painfully inconsistent. I watched him look like a good OLman in some games, then give up two sacks the next. He has always been "potential"...and has never seemed to play up to it.

I fear the scouts were starry eyed over his look...his size...his long arms. I think he probably looked really good in controlled situations where he knew every eye in the house was watching him. How much game film did these guys watch? I suggest not much. Because if they had, they would have seen what I seen. He was a 4th-5th round project at best...but fooled the scouts into giving him a 1-2nd round grade.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

I agree and disagree. While every player is a project to one degree or another coming out of college. There are those who dominate at the college level. While domination at the college level is a reasonable indicator for NFL success, it certainly isn't fool proof at any position. With that said, players who are scrubs at the college level, rarely become good in the pros, just because they have protypical size.

In the case of Adams, I know no one here watched more of him than me. He played with a lack of passion, never played with a mean streak. He never played with urgency. He was painfully inconsistent. I watched him look like a good OLman in some games, then give up two sacks the next. He has always been "potential"...and has never seemed to play up to it.

I fear the scouts were starry eyed over his look...his size...his long arms. I think he probably looked really good in controlled situations where he knew every eye in the house was watching him. How much game film did these guys watch? I suggest not much. Because if they had, they would have seen what I seen. He was a 4th-5th round project at best...but fooled the scouts into giving him a 1-2nd round grade.

College dominance doesn't gauge NFL success. For every argument you could find a counter & you know that. It isn't any revelation to say a scrub in college won't explode as a pro. I also didn't say anywhere where size or stature grades a player out. I watched a lot of Adams. He was never a 4th or 5th round grade and to sit here & say YOU knew that now holds no weight. He was inconsistent...Like I said. But he also showed he could be a very good LT. Just like any other kid coming out...Could & Should is settled on the field. Scouts don't make the calls & Colbert, Tomlin, & position coaches evaluate. From Top to bottom...A miss is a miss.

You are critical of the Steelers scouts...But you have arrested coked-up drop out Colt Lyerla rated as a 2nd round TE in your Steelers mock. You should probably change that.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I think DeCastro has made a huge improvement during the course of this season. Don't know if it's partly due to coaching help, or not.

As I said, if we could get a real LT, I think our OL would be looking pretty good.

I agree that he has improved, but I see that as more of a recovery from injury and living up to his own level than anything else. He was a highly touted first rounder who, IMO, is simply getting back to where he should be, not jumping beyond his starting point.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I really don't think you can say ANY college player coming out is a finished product can you? Like in Adams case, he was inconsistent in his play & technique in college but he did show what he "could" be. If he wasn't inconsistent & a positive test he is a Top 15 pick imo. When you have a kid who has the stature of a model LT and shown some skills...You project what he could become within an NFL program. The only "risk" in the Adams pick was with the positive test. The 2nd round pick on projected talent was worth it. The hindsight if he fails is easy to bring up because it was a 2nd. If he turns into Orlando Pace people will bow to the pick. It is just the wonderful mystery of the NFL draft.

JPN, I agree that no player coming out of college is a finished product, they simply have a floor and a ceiling, with a certain likelihood that they will fall within that range. What I am seeing too often over the past few years are Steeler draftees who are coming much closer to hitting their floors than their ceilings. Much of that comes to character evaluation, while much also comes to coaching. These issues must be addressed if this team is to move forward.