Madden: Steelers Wasting BIg Ben

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  • hawaiiansteel
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 35649

    #61
    establishing a rushing game is not a waste of Ben's talent any more than it was a waste of John Elway's talent to have Terrell Davis providing a running threat.

    Comment

    • Captain QB
      Backup
      • May 2013
      • 180

      #62
      Originally posted by hawaiiansteel
      establishing a rushing game is not a waste of Ben's talent any more than it was a waste of John Elway's talent to have Terrell Davis providing a running threat.
      Establishing a running game doesn't waste a QB's talent, but handcuffing him until the 4th quarter when you need him to bail the team out does waste his talents.

      Comment

      • Captain Lemming
        Legend
        • Jun 2008
        • 16041

        #63
        Originally posted by feltdizz
        The Denver game showed me that holding onto the ball doesn't matter unless you are putting up points. Nothing worse than watching us hold the ball for 14 minutes and run 40 plays to score 7 points... and then watch the Broncos run 3 plays in 20 seconds and score 7 points.
        If other teams can routinely score three play touchdowns you will lose regardless of how you play offense. That is a defense problem.
        Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2013, 05:06 PM.
        sigpic



        In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

        TCFCLTC-
        The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

        Comment

        • Captain Lemming
          Legend
          • Jun 2008
          • 16041

          #64
          Originally posted by Captain QB
          Establishing a running game doesn't waste a QB's talent, but handcuffing him until the 4th quarter when you need him to bail the team out does waste his talents.
          Funny how THIS EXACT strategy got Flacco a ring AND entry into the Big BUCKS CLUB of QBs. Yeah, THAT Superbowl run was a "waste of the QBs talents".
          But throwing 40 times to pad Ben's fantasy football numbers is more important that winning rings right?
          Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2013, 04:56 PM.
          sigpic



          In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

          TCFCLTC-
          The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

          Comment

          • Captain QB
            Backup
            • May 2013
            • 180

            #65
            Originally posted by Captain Lemming
            That strategy got Flacco a ring AND entry into the Big BUCKS CLUB of QBs.
            But throwing 40 times to pad Ben's fantasy football numbers is more important that winning rings right?
            And handcuffing the QB until the 4th quarter is considered a winning formula?
            Hey, trying to relive the 70's is more important than winning rings, right?

            Comment

            • Captain Lemming
              Legend
              • Jun 2008
              • 16041

              #66
              Originally posted by Captain QB
              And handcuffing the QB until the 4th quarter is considered a winning formula?
              Hey, trying to relive the 70's is more important than winning rings, right?
              No need to go back to the 70s.....
              I am just trying to "relive" the kind of balance that history has shown ALWAYS results in winning seasons for Ben.
              sigpic



              In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

              TCFCLTC-
              The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

              Comment

              • feltdizz
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 27531

                #67
                Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                If other teams can routinely score three play touchdowns you will lose regardless of how you play offense. That is a defense problem.
                3 play TD drives arent routine...

                I would just like to see some points to go along with this time of possession trophy.
                Steelers 27
                Rats 16

                Comment

                • Captain Lemming
                  Legend
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 16041

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Steelhere10
                  I agree with the article, and judging from the first preseason game where most of the passes was 10 yds or less. It still looks dink and donk to me. And I don't buy the bad Ol bs. Aaron Rodgers get sacked just as much if not more and I think him and Ben are more alike than Ben and Brady, where they are better fit for the long ball offense.
                  Yes, in a meaningless preseason game with OTs who are struggling to protect Ben as it is, lets call slower developing plays that make Ben hold the ball EVEN LONGER. We need to make sure he can take the punishment before the season starts.
                  sigpic



                  In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                  TCFCLTC-
                  The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                  Comment

                  • NJ-STEELER
                    Legend
                    • May 2008
                    • 12563

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Ghost
                    Arians had the O moving but they always stalled out in the red zone. I used to curse when they got a 1st and goal at the 5 b/c you just knew it would be a nightmare trying to score a TD. When they got to the 50 I'd start praying for a long ball that would get into the endzone. His last 3 years his RZ TD pct was 48.2%, 48%, 51%. Terrible. F. Hopefully they've got a plan to get that better this year.
                    a bad OL combined with a RB who like to spin instead of hitting a jole will do that.

                    combine that with 'midget' type receivers who dont really have a physical mismatch against their DB counterparts and its no wonder why it struggled

                    Comment

                    • Captain Lemming
                      Legend
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 16041

                      #70
                      Originally posted by feltdizz
                      3 play TD drives arent routine...

                      I would just like to see some points to go along with this time of possession trophy.
                      Your original scenario WAS that we scored a TD, followed by a quick TD by the opponent. We DID score. THAT was the basis of my reply.

                      Your comment here I can agree with completely. We need to end drive with scores.

                      This team scored more points:
                      1. Ben's first two years under BC.
                      Ben went 13-0 in year one with Ben throwing more than 25 times ONCE. THAT team SCORED more than we have seen lately.
                      Crash's problem is that he equates letting Ben loose with scoring.
                      We have done that and SCORED LESS. AND hurt our defense for not controling the ball.

                      Highest scoring seasons with Ben.

                      2007- First year under BA offense, ONLY TIME he called run more than pass.
                      2005- Ben's second season- Lowest pass attempts as a game one starter.
                      sigpic



                      In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                      TCFCLTC-
                      The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                      Comment

                      • Captain Lemming
                        Legend
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 16041

                        #71
                        Let me add that Ben has NEVER missed a playoff in seasons that we had balance. NEVER!

                        Rookie season- Ben's best regular season- rushed over 600 times, passed less than 400 4th highest scoring team
                        2nd season- Ben becomes youngest SB champ EVER- 2nd most run heavy team- 2nd scoring team of Ben's
                        4th season- Most truly balanced team, third most run attempts- Last team that ran more than it passed. Highest scoring team of Ben's career/ Bens best QB rating, BEN SCORED MORE TDs PASSING (32) than he has done in any season since DESPITE throwing around a HUNDRED LESS passes than the team does does nowadays. EVERY SEASON SINCE 2007 we have thrown more passes and "BEN" (never mind run TDs) has scored less than the 32 TDs that season.

                        When we are pass-centric it is a tossup whether we make the playoffs.

                        With Ben and balance or even run heavy....we NEVER miss.

                        And WE SCORE MORE doing it.
                        Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2013, 06:03 PM.
                        sigpic



                        In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                        TCFCLTC-
                        The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                        Comment

                        • ikestops85
                          Hall of Famer
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 3724

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Captain QB
                          What the hell are you talking about? We're talking about Week 1 in Denver last year. Redman sure as hell wasn't getting "7 yards per carry" and the play calling in the first half was mostly run, run, pass. And yes, Ben did bail them out a number of times. Do you even know what game you're referencing?



                          And in a lot of those games the Steelers did at one point have a 4th quarter lead and the defense blew it.

                          You know what, that Deadspin article is right. No matter how much Ben has done, there are yinzers who still think he has something to prove.
                          The 1st quarter of that Denver game last year you are correct. We did go run, run, pass. However, the first drive of the 2nd quarter we get a great punt return by AB and start the drive at the Denver 37. We move the ball and get a 1st and goal at the Denver 3 and here are our plays ...

                          1st down - Ben Roethlisberger pass incomplete to Antonio Brown.
                          2nd down - Ben Roethlisberger pass incomplete to Heath Miller.
                          3rd down - Ben Roethlisberger pass incomplete to Heath Miller.
                          4th down - Shaun Suisham 21 yard field goal GOOD.

                          and that folks is the problem with our offense. We can't score touchdowns whether we try and run the ball or pass the ball. I'm not blaming Ben for this but 3 straight passes from the 3 yard line is not exactly yinzer ball like you are portraying. Starting with the 2nd quarter and going until Denver had the pick 6 late in the fourth quarter the Steelers had 22 first downs and passed on 12 of them. Again, that doesn't sound like this yinzer football you keep speaking about. First of all we didn't have an offensive line that would allow us to play yinzer football. I wish we did.

                          I do agree that Ben was fantastic with his 3rd and long passing. I think it was something like 5 of 6 when it was 3rd and longer than 7 yards.
                          As many on this site think ... The Rooney's suck, Colbert sucks, Tomlin sucks, the coaches suck, and the players suck.

                          but Go Steelers!!!

                          Comment

                          • Captain QB
                            Backup
                            • May 2013
                            • 180

                            #73
                            Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                            Let me add that Ben has NEVER missed a playoff in seasons that we had balance. NEVER!

                            Rookie season- Ben's best regular season- rushed over 600 times, passed less than 40- fourth highest scoring team
                            2nd season- Ben becomes youngest SB champ EVER- 2nd most run heavy team- 2nd scoring team of Ben's
                            4th season- Most truly balanced team, third most run attempts- Last team that ran more than it passed. Highest scoring team of Ben's career/ Bens best QB rating, BEN SCORED MORE TDs PASSING (32) than he has done in any season since DESPITE the teams throwing around a HUNDRED LESS passes than he does nowadays. EVERY SEASON SINCE 2007 we have thrown more passes and BEN (never mind the team as a whole) has scored less than that season.

                            When we are pass-centric it is a stoup whether we make the playoffs.

                            With Ben and balance or even run heavy....we NEVER miss.
                            But guess what, that was then this is now. And now the Steelers have a very different team. Now, Ben is their best player. He needs to be the primary focus of the offense.

                            Comment

                            • Captain Lemming
                              Legend
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 16041

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Captain QB
                              But guess what, that was then this is now. And now the Steelers have a very different team. Now, Ben is their best player. He needs to be the primary focus of the offense.
                              Sooo now "THEN" just went from "the 70s" to 2007. Well I am making progress.

                              I WILL concede this point.
                              I dont blame the coaches for not calling more run with an ineffective run game which goes to your point.
                              We HAD to pass because the run game was pathetic.

                              However, the team WISELY has tried to address the issues with the run game.

                              IF those changes create a vastly improved run attack, we need to go back to balance.

                              Ben has been out most valuable offensive player since he got here. Nothing new.
                              Given the luxury of a balanced attack, "our most valuable player" cannot be stopped.
                              HISTORY has shown this to be true.
                              Last edited by Captain Lemming; 08-19-2013, 06:18 PM.
                              sigpic



                              In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                              TCFCLTC-
                              The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                              Comment

                              • Captain Lemming
                                Legend
                                • Jun 2008
                                • 16041

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Captain QB
                                [URL]http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steelers/madden-steelers-wasting-big-ben/article_4d598ab7-4b82-5321-bfc7-437f5dee5bf8.html[/URL]



                                Madden: Steelers wasting Big Ben
                                Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:45 pm
                                By Mark Madden Times Sports Correspondent

                                Once upon a time, Ben Roethlisberger was a top five NFL quarterback.

                                He could be again, given chance.

                                That chance does not appear imminent.
                                Look closely at the very premise of this article. The problem with Madden is that his priorities are LESS about the Steelers as a team and irrational fandom for Ben. For Ben to get "his deserved glory" like and take his place among "the elite" is WAY TOO important to him. One of those silly fans who need to brag "my QB is better".

                                Dan Marino get the glory, the accolades, he is in the GOAT conversation. But his contemporary Troy Aikman has got the rings. I have no doubt Aikman could have gotten much more press and been much more "prolific" had the cowboys called that kind of game. But he got rings. Was his talent "wasted"? If being an indispensable key to a championship caliber team is "wasted" then yes.

                                Ben is an indispensable key to a championship for this team,whether he throws 400 times or 600 times. He does not need to put up huge fantasy numbers to prove that.

                                The Steelers had MANY great run teams that could not win a championship until Ben came along. Now we have been to 3 and won 2 SBs.

                                That alone makes Ben not a "waste".
                                sigpic



                                In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                                TCFCLTC-
                                The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                                Comment

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