Madden: Steelers Wasting BIg Ben

[Captain QB]

I am calm...but fans who are so willing to call a coach a failure for things out of his control after a year in the position just make me shake my head.

This type of play calling makes the rest of us shake our heads:

1st down: RUTM, no gain
2nd down: RUTM or bubble screen, loss of three yards
3rd & long: Ben help!

[Ghost]

Arians had the O moving but they always stalled out in the red zone. I used to curse when they got a 1st and goal at the 5 b/c you just knew it would be a nightmare trying to score a TD. When they got to the 50 I'd start praying for a long ball that would get into the endzone. His last 3 years his RZ TD pct was 48.2%, 48%, 51%. Terrible. F. Hopefully they've got a plan to get that better this year.

[hawaiiansteel]

Mark Madden is a one-trick pony...

[Shawn]

I expect them to get with the times and understand that time of possession is a meaningless stat.

It's less about the time and more about the quality of control. It's about imposing your will onto another team and breaking them...forcing them to submit. That is what TOP is supposed to measure...but I agree it is a poor measure of such.

[Shawn]

nobody has called him a failure.

he certainly has a lot of room for improvement. To say otherwise is absurd.

This O needs to show improvement that I will agree with.

[Steelhere10]

I agree with the article, and judging from the first preseason game where most of the passes was 10 yds or less. It still looks dink and donk to me. And I don't buy the bad Ol bs. Aaron Rodgers get sacked just as much if not more and I think him and Ben are more alike than Ben and Brady, where they are better fit for the long ball offense.

[Vader]

Madden is an idiot. Go look at the Denver game. 400 yards total offense but only got 3 FGs and 2 Tds. Ben doesn't do well when he has to throw over 35 times a game. He was 22 of 40 in that game. Ben has always worked better in play action. He is one of the highest rated passers in the league on play action. But play action doesn't work if you can't run.

When they went to the SB against GB they were 8th in rushing attempts and 27th in passing attempts. IF you look at 2009 where they went 9-7 they were 18th in both. When they won the SB in 08' they were 20th in rushing att. and 9th in rushing att. etc....

You can see that when they pass more they lose more. This is totally different with the pats*. The one year where they ran more than passed was in 08' when Cassell played.

[Captain QB]

Madden is an idiot. Go look at the Denver game. 400 yards total offense but only got 3 FGs and 2 Tds. Ben doesn't do well when he has to throw over 35 times a game. He was 22 of 40 in that game. Ben has always worked better in play action. He is one of the highest rated passers in the league on play action. But play action doesn't work if you can't run.

When they went to the SB against GB they were 8th in rushing attempts and 27th in passing attempts. IF you look at 2009 where they went 9-7 they were 18th in both. When they won the SB in 08' they were 20th in rushing att. and 9th in rushing att. etc....

You can see that when they pass more they lose more. This is totally different with the pats*. The one year where they ran more than passed was in 08' when Cassell played.

The Denver game doesn't help your argument. The Steelers spent much of the first half of that game playing Martyball. Run, run, pass. The reason the Steelers even had a chance in that game was because he kept bailing the team out in 3rd & long situations.

That game is also the perfect example of why time of possession is meaningless and how the Steelers were pretty much wasting first and second downs.

And the Steelers went 9-7 in 2009 because the defense couldn't hold fourth quarter leads.

[feltdizz]

Madden is an idiot. Go look at the Denver game. 400 yards total offense but only got 3 FGs and 2 Tds. Ben doesn't do well when he has to throw over 35 times a game. He was 22 of 40 in that game. Ben has always worked better in play action. He is one of the highest rated passers in the league on play action. But play action doesn't work if you can't run.

When they went to the SB against GB they were 8th in rushing attempts and 27th in passing attempts. IF you look at 2009 where they went 9-7 they were 18th in both. When they won the SB in 08' they were 20th in rushing att. and 9th in rushing att. etc....

You can see that when they pass more they lose more. This is totally different with the pats*. The one year where they ran more than passed was in 08' when Cassell played.

The Denver game showed me that holding onto the ball doesn't matter unless you are putting up points. Nothing worse than watching us hold the ball for 14 minutes and run 40 plays to score 7 points... and then watch the Broncos run 3 plays in 20 seconds and score 7 points.

Also understand the only time we let Ben throw over 35 times is when we are losing. These other offenses throw the ball 45 times regardless.

[Captain Lemming]

Honest question....

In today's NFL, do any of you think there is such a thing as "scoring too quickly?"

No, but relying TOO much on the pass heaving bomb at the endzone ALSO leads to three and outs that take no time whatsoever.

Balance. Baltimore "scored quickly" many times enroute to the SB. They ALSO ran more than we have in YEARS. Pick your spots take your shots. Just dont LIVE there.
Taking the philosophy of the LIONS aint gonna make us better.

[Captain QB]

The Denver game showed me that holding onto the ball doesn't matter unless you are putting up points. Nothing worse than watching us hold the ball for 14 minutes and run 40 plays to score 7 points... and then watch the Broncos run 3 plays in 20 seconds and score 7 points.

Also understand the only time we let Ben throw over 35 times is when we are losing. These other offenses throw the ball 45 times regardless.

It's kind of funny that the Broncos, a team that doesn't try to relive the early 70's, managed to out-rush the Steelers without handcuffing Peyton Manning. The different between the two teams is the mentality: the Broncos were trying to score, the Steelers were only trying to possess.

[Vader]

The Denver game doesn't help your argument. The Steelers spent much of the first half of that game playing Martyball. Run, run, pass. The reason the Steelers even had a chance in that game was because he kept bailing the team out in 3rd & long situations.

That game is also the perfect example of why time of possession is meaningless and how the Steelers were pretty much wasting first and second downs.

And the Steelers went 9-7 in 2009 because the defense couldn't hold fourth quarter leads.

They ran for over 150 yards... they couldn't score TDs. So please don't tell me the running game wasn't working. Redman was averaging over 7 yards a carry. You're run, run, pass Long 3rd down NEVER happened in the first half.. NEVER. You need to re-watch that game. Ben completed ONE pass on 3rd down over 10 yards. ONE.

So they weren't wasting 1st and 2nd down unless you think passing is wasting time. Most 3rd downs were created by INCOMPLETE PASSES. Ben was barely over 50% for the day. As a matter of fact EVERY 3rd except one in the first half was setup by an incomplete pass by Ben.

Also in 09' they lost to the browns 13-6. They got 2 FGs by their offense. The defense allowed 1 TD in the 2nd Qtr. Didn't give up another point the entire game.
They lost to the rats with Dixon playing QB. He threw a pick that setup the game winning FG. Yes, the defense sure gave that one away. They gave up 3 points in the entire 2nd half. In the KC game that year the STs gave up a TD on the opening kickoff, one Ben Int lead to a FG (-1 yard drive). Yes, the defense gave up a long TD drive in OT but blaming them for the loss is a stretch.

They lost to the bungles that year 18-12. 4 FGs and Ben plays a horrible game. 50% comp. 0 TDs and 1 pick. He threw 40 times with 20 completions. Hard to lose 4th qtr. leads when you don't have them. Again Ben isn't a 40 pass guy. He needs a running game. They lost in 09' because the offense was 24th in the league in points. Yes, the defense wasn't great but that's what I'm talking about. IF the defense isn't great and the running game is below par then Ben can't get it done.

[feltdizz]

They ran for over 150 yards... they couldn't score TDs. So please don't tell me the running game wasn't working. Redman was averaging over 7 yards a carry. You're run, run, pass Long 3rd down NEVER happened in the first half.. NEVER. You need to re-watch that game. Ben completed ONE pass on 3rd down over 10 yards. ONE.

So they weren't wasting 1st and 2nd down unless you think passing is wasting time. Most 3rd downs were created by INCOMPLETE PASSES. Ben was barely over 50% for the day. As a matter of fact EVERY 3rd except one in the first half was setup by an incomplete pass by Ben.

Also in 09' they lost to the browns 13-6. They got 2 FGs by their offense. The defense allowed 1 TD in the 2nd Qtr. Didn't give up another point the entire game.
They lost to the rats with Dixon playing QB. He threw a pick that setup the game winning FG. Yes, the defense sure gave that one away. They gave up 3 points in the entire 2nd half. In the KC game that year the STs gave up a TD on the opening kickoff, one Ben Int lead to a FG (-1 yard drive). Yes, the defense gave up a long TD drive in OT but blaming them for the loss is a stretch.

They lost to the bungles that year 18-12. 4 FGs and Ben plays a horrible game. 50% comp. 0 TDs and 1 pick. He threw 40 times with 20 completions. Hard to lose 4th qtr. leads when you don't have them. Again Ben isn't a 40 pass guy. He needs a running game. They lost in 09' because the offense was 24th in the league in points. Yes, the defense wasn't great but that's what I'm talking about. IF the defense isn't great and the running game is below par then Ben can't get it done.

we also lost in 09 because we went to the SB in 08. This team has never played well after a SB appearance. You also picked 3 or 4 games over a 4 year span.

[Captain QB]

They ran for over 150 yards... they couldn't score TDs. So please don't tell me the running game wasn't working. Redman was averaging over 7 yards a carry. You're run, run, pass Long 3rd down NEVER happened in the first half.. NEVER. You need to re-watch that game. Ben completed ONE pass on 3rd down over 10 yards. ONE.

So they weren't wasting 1st and 2nd down unless you think passing is wasting time. Most 3rd downs were created by INCOMPLETE PASSES. Ben was barely over 50% for the day. As a matter of fact EVERY 3rd except one in the first half was setup by an incomplete pass by Ben.

What the hell are you talking about? We're talking about Week 1 in Denver last year. Redman sure as hell wasn't getting "7 yards per carry" and the play calling in the first half was mostly run, run, pass. And yes, Ben did bail them out a number of times. Do you even know what game you're referencing?

Also in 09' they lost to the browns 13-6. They got 2 FGs by their offense. The defense allowed 1 TD in the 2nd Qtr. Didn't give up another point the entire game.
They lost to the rats with Dixon playing QB. He threw a pick that setup the game winning FG. Yes, the defense sure gave that one away. They gave up 3 points in the entire 2nd half. In the KC game that year the STs gave up a TD on the opening kickoff, one Ben Int lead to a FG (-1 yard drive). Yes, the defense gave up a long TD drive in OT but blaming them for the loss is a stretch.

They lost to the bungles that year 18-12. 4 FGs and Ben plays a horrible game. 50% comp. 0 TDs and 1 pick. He threw 40 times with 20 completions. Hard to lose 4th qtr. leads when you don't have them. Again Ben isn't a 40 pass guy. He needs a running game. They lost in 09' because the offense was 24th in the league in points. Yes, the defense wasn't great but that's what I'm talking about. IF the defense isn't great and the running game is below par then Ben can't get it done.

And in a lot of those games the Steelers did at one point have a 4th quarter lead and the defense blew it.

You know what, that Deadspin article is right. No matter how much Ben has done, there are yinzers who still think he has something to prove.

[Captain QB]

Ah I get it.... Vader was talking about the wild card game when Tebow was the QB in Denver. It was also when Ben was still hobbled by that high-ankle sprain, and Pouncey didn't play.

Yup, that game was all Ben's fault. The defense was totally blameless in that game!