Why Was Ben Having a Pro Bowl Caliber Season Last Year?

[Captain Lemming]

I agree.. Ben rarely plays healthy. I'm still waiting for an answer about the number of first downs being low the first 8 games.

I think the lack of a running game was also a reason. Some people say a bad running game would make it harder for him.... yet those same people say the it's a passing league and the running game isn't that important.

You answered your own question. If you have the worst run game in a generation that hurts your overall ability to convert 1st downs.

It is EASY to quantify the degree that number is indicative of Ben's play.

How effective was BEN at converting 3rd downs? We know he was great, heck you started that conversation. That being the case, any discussion of total first downs obscures the point.

For example I just looked up 2 games where we had but ONE rushing 1st down. So you see a modest total first down number but it was ALL Ben.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I think looking at stats where Ben is clearly not himself physically is not the best gauge to analyze anything let alone an OC. I think a better indicator is looking at a healthy Ben to make assessments.

Agreed... except you wanted to compare games 1-8 with the prior seasons saying it was his best... though he was injured in the others. Excluding an annual occurence for only one year to say "for that stretch, it was his best year", is simply inaccurate.

you could very easily say, "if ben wasn't injured during his prior best season, it would have been untouchable", for example... we all know this guy... he's got a bum ankle, rib, something, annually. it's how he plays. that toughness and desire to make a play is exactly why i would take him before any other QB in the league (though Manning would be close).

I suppose we can agree to disagree.

agreed... lol

[SteelerOfDeVille]

SOD look at the title of the thread. "Why was Ben having a Pro Bowl Season" The initial post was talking about Ben's great "start".

You are not addressing THAT question, as you disagree with the premise.

I had to go back to this - and now combining 2 posts, for simplicity... my apologies... But, I don't disagree with the premise - not sure that it was pro bowl caliber, but, it was certainly a good start for him, statitically.

For example I just looked up 2 games where we had but ONE rushing 1st down. So you see a modest total first down number but it was ALL Ben.

Again, THIS is a HUGE factor... if you cannot run successfully, but, CAN pass successfully, guess which one you're gonna do more of? Ask Dan Marino... or Elway before Terrell Davis. you've totally shot yourself in the foot with this point.

[Captain Lemming]

Again, THIS is a HUGE factor... if you cannot run successfully, but, CAN pass successfully, guess which one you're gonna do more of? Ask Dan Marino... or Elway before Terrell Davis. you've totally shot yourself in the foot with this point.

I NEVER look at passing yardage totals as a measure of effectiveness.
In my opinion Bens best regular season by FAR was 2007. He has been a more "prolific" passer every year since then.
Dude threw 32 TDs in 132 LESS throws than the final year of Arians (2011) when Ben threw 21 TDs in 513 passes.

This year Ben threw 26 TDs and was on pace for 32 prior to injury.
Due to the injury he actually threw LESS passes than 2011 yet more TDs.
Ben Bested the total of 26 TDs ONCE and has thrown more attempts FOUR times.

Ben was on pace for similar effectiveness to 07 but with WAY less sacks under Haley.

The "dink and dunk" was working.

Think about it. Due to the battered oline the run game was useless and you cannot give Ben time.
Haley looks at the situation and does the only logical thing.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I NEVER look at passing yardage totals as a measure of effectiveness.
In my opinion Bens best regular season by FAR was 2007. He has been a more "prolific" passer every year since then.
Dude threw 32 TDs in 132 LESS throws than the final year of Arians (2011) when Ben threw 21 TDs in 513 passes.

This year Ben threw 26 TDs and was on pace for 32 prior to injury.
Due to the injury he actually threw LESS passes than 2011 yet more TDs.
Ben Bested the total of 26 TDs ONCE and has thrown more attempts FOUR times.

Ben was on pace for similar effectiveness to 07 but with WAY less sacks under Haley.

The "dink and dunk" was working.

Think about it. Due to the battered oline the run game was useless and you cannot give Ben time.
Haley looks at the situation and does the only logical thing.

Now, your'e getting carried away with that last sentence, crediting him with an adjustment for situations that are innacurate... the dink and dunk was the plan BEFORE injuries or inefective run game. That was NOT an in season adjustment to what was going on.

In fact, i contend that the dink and dunk encourages the secondary to cheat up, making it more difficult to run. in other words, the ineffective run game may well have been a result of the gameplan. when they add another occasional downfield throw this year (and hopefully have a healthier o-line) the run game will improve...

totally random realization... I have no idea which 2 games you referred to with only 1 rushing first down... Because of your dislike for me mentioning stats that excluded Ben, I can only assume that you are referring to games with Ben in them, not Batch/Leftwich games. For that matter, I can further assume that they happened in the midst of the first 8 games because those are the games in question here - Ben's injury games don't count... If not, nice to meet ya, kettle...

but, this horse is dead... chicken or egg... we could go round and round... looks like another agree to disagree.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I'm really disappointed in this thread. This discussion has hit 5 pages and there has been no breakdown into name calling and childish behavior. If this civility continues I'm going to have to contact one of the mods and have all of you banned for the rest of the off-season.

Sheesh!

[RuthlessBurgher]

I'm really disappointed in this thread. This discussion has hit 5 pages and there has been no breakdown into name calling and childish behavior. If this civility continues I'm going to have to contact one of the mods and have all of you banned for the rest of the off-season.

Sheesh!

steeler_fan_in_t.o. is a big fat doodiehead.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

steeler_fan_in_t.o. is a big fat doodiehead.

See....was that so hard?

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I'm really disappointed in this thread. This discussion has hit 5 pages and there has been no breakdown into name calling and childish behavior. If this civility continues I'm going to have to contact one of the mods and have all of you banned for the rest of the off-season.

Sheesh!

Does this count?

If not, nice to meet ya, kettle...

Seriously, I believe that's a matter of posters who generally respect each other's opinions disagreeing on a topic. It's weird - I usually disagree with guys who I think are morons...

[Slapstick]

In fact, i contend that the dink and dunk encourages the secondary to cheat up, making it more difficult to run. in other words, the ineffective run game may well have been a result of the gameplan. when they add another occasional downfield throw this year (and hopefully have a healthier o-line) the run game will improve...

The run game was a function, mainly, of the o-line...

When the o-line was at the healthiest point, the Steelers produced 3 100 yard rushing games and averaged 4.7 YpC...

When the injuries hit, the run production went in the crapper...

[flippy]

I'm really disappointed in this thread. This discussion has hit 5 pages and there has been no breakdown into name calling and childish behavior. If this civility continues I'm going to have to contact one of the mods and have all of you banned for the rest of the off-season.

Sheesh!

SOD killed a horse in one of his posts

[flippy]

Anyone concerned that Ben's YPA was down below his career avg? That seems to correlate with the effectiveness of an offense.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Anyone concerned that Ben's YPA was down below his career avg? That seems to correlate with the effectiveness of an offense.

I made that point - they basically called it irrelevant!

In any event, yes, I'm concerned. And that wasn't a BA thin cuz it's career, so it also happened with Whiz, etc. HOWEVER, i suspect it'll be more in line with the other years this year. I like everything I'm reading about the two of them talking. Whether it turns into more deep balls or not, it does, in fact, mean Ben's on board, understands and considers the system reasonable... I'm actually of the opinion that if you like last year's first 8, wait'll you get a load of this year's offense.

[feltdizz]

Anyone concerned that Ben's YPA was down below his career avg? That seems to correlate with the effectiveness of an offense.

yep.. also witnessed are WR's struggle underneath with ball protection and our running game probably suffered due to the D crowding the LOS.

[Captain Lemming]

I made that point - they basically called it irrelevant!

In any event, yes, I'm concerned. And that wasn't a BA thin cuz it's career, so it also happened with Whiz, etc. HOWEVER, i suspect it'll be more in line with the other years this year. I like everything I'm reading about the two of them talking. Whether it turns into more deep balls or not, it does, in fact, mean Ben's on board, understands and considers the system reasonable... I'm actually of the opinion that if you like last year's first 8, wait'll you get a load of this year's offense.

Ben's career low YPA was second year under Arians, 7.0 (versus 7.3 last year).
We went 12-4 and won the SB.

Total team offense numbers were nothing special, frankly our overal offense is better when we run better. In years we dont run well the offense is always lower 15.
What IS interesting about that year is that while less prolific, Ben was never more "clutch".

When down he patiently moved the ball (pre-Wallace) with quicker strikes. Less attempts to get it all at once.
5 fourth quarter comebacks that year.

BTW our scoring went UP last year DESPITE an enemic run game, few turnovers and Ben missing three games.
Ben's YPA went down, TD percentage went up.
Yes, in this discussion, ypa made no difference in team success.

You know what did?
Points allowed- up from 227 to 315

Iteresting stat:
Steeler have not made a single playoff allowing 300 points in a decade.