In Transition, Is Now Time for the 4-3?

[lloydroid]

We need help this year or next where guys are going to need to step in year one or two and start. One takes players 2 years to learn. One doesn't. Both systems work equally well.

I agree, but this is all moot unless tricky Dick retires. And I don't think the Rooneys will make him out of loyalty. (And, contrary to Dick's claims, this is NOT a decision that will be made my Tomlin - no way).

[Oviedo]

I agree, but this is all moot unless tricky Dick retires. And I don't think the Rooneys will make him out of loyalty. (And, contrary to Dick's claims, this is NOT a decision that will be made my Tomlin - no way).

I agree. Tomlin hasn't had a choice about who the Def Coord was since he's been here, but he is a good soldier and salutes and executes when the orders are issued.

[SteelCrazy]

for god's sake, NO! We have the best D almost every year. What the heck is the reason for a change? It's not broke, so dont fix it!

[flippy]

I think Ta'amu and McCelndon would both be best suited to play DT in a 4-3. Hood might be ok at DT. I guess you could try Heyward, Woodley, and Keisel at DE. And you just might have your LBs in Timmons, Spence, and Worilds already on the roster.

But this year could be a big cluster. And you might end up throwing away a #1 ranked D and a couple of high draft picks in Hood, Heyward if they don't fit. And you're asking Timmons, Woodley who were 2 other high picks to learn a new position.

At the end of the day, we have 3 first rounders and 2 2nd rounder in the front 7 that fit in a 3-4. After this draft, we might have another 1st and 2nd rounder that can fit in a 3-4.

I'll defer this discussion until I see who we draft this year.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

tomlin has said many times that he values what DL brings to the table, but some people refuse to hear it.

I'm constantly amazed that people on a message board think they know more than the steelers FO and coaching staff.

[Oviedo]

I'm constantly amazed that people on a message board think they know more than the steelers FO and coaching staff.

Are you looking in the mirror when you typed that?

[Eddie Spaghetti]

Are you looking in the mirror when you typed that?

nope.

I'm not the guy with 11,000 posts.

why haven't you posted your usual drivel in the foster thread? Cat got your tongue for once?

[supersteeler]

I see no need to switch to the 4-3, and I think it is a mistake to build a defense that features very average players like Ziggy Hood, Steve McClendon and the rest of the Steelers defensive lineman. A few brief points:

1) To those who complain about the conversion period, kindly point to a single piece of emperical data suggesting that there is a longer transition from college players coming into a 3-4 than there is for players coming to a 4-3. With the amount of statistical breakdown that is out there, than surely there must be statistical breakdowns demonstrating this to be the case. Moreover, if the 4-3 is so much more efficient, then why is it that at least half of the teams in the league run a 3-4 or some variety thereof? Don't you think that front office folks would have figured this out?

Good teams throughout the league start veteran players. The 49ers did not have a starter with less than 6 years of experience.

2) The franchise tag values bear out that it is more difficult to find a DE than an OLB. NFL player salaries are largely a function of scarcity and value. Franchise QBs are the most scare and most valuable and, thus, are paid the most. Kickers and Punters are considered generally fungible and are paid the least. The franchise tag value for DEs is the second highest figure. The point is not that you want to apply the tag; the point is that DEs are considered the second most valuable and most rare commodity, behind only QBs. Even with more teams playing a 3-4, it is easier to find a 3-4 OLB than it is to find a 4-3 DE.

3) The biggest problem facing the Steelers is personnel, not scheme. Quite simply, you need to win one-on-one battles. The Steelers pass rushers didn't win enough of those battles last year. Whether standing or putting his hand in the dirt, Woodley needs to get to the QB. He's been quite effective in the 3-4, so it isn't a scheme problem; it's his own issue.

4) Who is going to play LBer? Timmons is best suited as an OLB in the 4-3. Foote doesn't really fit as a 4-3 MLB anymore. Worilds is a DE in the 4-3. You would need a true MLB and another OLB. As it stands now, you can bring back Foote for at or near the vet minimum and add a developmental OLB behind Worilds. In a 4-3, you need 2 new starters.

That's a good post!

[lloydroid]

Are you looking in the mirror when you typed that?

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahahaha. Nice one. That is going to leave a mark.

[flippy]

I agree, but this is all moot unless tricky Dick retires. And I don't think the Rooneys will make him out of loyalty. (And, contrary to Dick's claims, this is NOT a decision that will be made my Tomlin - no way).

The Steelers seem ready and willing to get rid of old players when they need to. Why wouldn't they do the same thing with an old senile coach? This leads me to believe DL is in perfect shape to coach. The defensive scheme is sound. We just can't get pressure and turnovers. And that's the talent of the players more than the coaching.

DL has to manufacture pressure by lining up Timmons outside Harrison and Troy outside Woodley and sending 3 of the 4. Now that Harrison's gone, even that's gonna be tough unless we go get DL some more talent.

[lloydroid]

tomlin has said many times that he values what DL brings to the table, but some people refuse to hear it.

I'm constantly amazed that people on a message board think they know more than the steelers FO and coaching staff.

This is the lamest, most-simpleton argument ever. I have met NFL coaches who thought you could teach rushing instincts and that by carrying a Bible around, and reading it, it would lead to more wins. Assuming coaches, etc. are infallible compared to our opinions is naive.

[ramblinjim]

I'm sentimental, I like to watch the players stay together and am optimistic about Troy P this year so with that, I just don't get all the Lebeau hate. With very few splash plays last year, we still had one of the best (and the best statistically) defenses in the league. We are in the top 10 every year, so naturally Lebeau is the problem.

4-3, 3-4 I really don't care, I want to see some swagger, and not that chicken hawk swagger like Ike sometimes has but I mean some "Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu throwing a beat down" on people kind of swagger. It'll never be the 70's again with Lamber, Joe, Shell and Mad Dog again but we can still beat some teams up. Ravens and 49'ers in the superbowl, interesting, two defensive teams (although the Ravens were not what they once were) and two teams that run the football well. Interesting.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

This is the lamest, most-simpleton argument ever. I have met NFL coaches who thought you could teach rushing instincts and that by carrying a Bible around, and reading it, it would lead to more wins. Assuming coaches, etc. are infallible compared to our opinions is naive.

if anyone should be an expert on lame and simple, its you.

[Vader]

I guess you just happened to forget to mention that Tomlin's defense was eighth best in the NFL the year he was Def Coord and was #1 against the run.

Maybe the "more" that LeBeau has forgotten is the part about sacking the QB and Intercepting the pass. The last two years would indicate he has in fact forgotten how to coach his players how to do that, although I'm sure it is all the fault of the players, Tomlin and Colbert.

I'm sure injuries to Troy, Harrison, and Woodley had nothing to do with the drop off in sacks? Also this is a passing league. Tomlin's #1 run defense in minnesota got blasted because teams would throw all over them. He was a DB coach and couldn't stop the bleeding. All the things you criticize LeBeau for (sacks and pass ints) were the issues Tomlin had in his one short year as DC.

Again, the players on defense would be hard pressed to play a 4-3. What do you do with Foote, Woodley, and Worilds? They don't have enough DLs to play the 3-4 let alone to play a 4-3.

In the article about moving to the 4-3 it assumes that the DL is stronger now than the LBers. I highly disagree. Hood and Heyward have shown little. Hood is in his last year and may not be back next year. I just don't see enough talent on the DL to use 4 of them. Woodley even said he doesn't want to play down. He likes OLBer.

[fordfixer]

The problem with sitching to the 3-4 is that Woodley has never played with his hand down in the NFL. Foote is already slow and giving him more field to cover isn't good. Also noticed that some of the best defenses in the NFL were from the 3-4 including the Steelers who were #1 again this year. I don't understand the need to change something that is obviously working. Name a great 4-3 team with average talent along the front like we would have if Woodley, Hood, Heyward, and the beard were on the line.

Also Tomlin did run the 4-3 but he was only a OC for one year. It isn't like he designed it or was even that good with it. He was a DB coach at Tampa not the OC. LeBeau has forgotten more about defense than Tomlin knows. His passing defense when he was the OC with the Vikings was the worst in the league. Is that really what the Steelers want here?

Welcome to the Planet