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  • Chadman
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 6537

    #46
    Originally posted by feltdizz
    I've watched ND all year... good player but not a great player. Someone will take him in the top 15 and they will be disappointed. There are more Alabama RB's in the NFL than Purdue, Wake Forest and Navy RB's...
    That's quite possibly right. Chadman thought the same in the great "Timmons vs Poszluzny" debate when everyone was hammering on about how great Poz was going to be. Given where each is now- the Steelers got it right.

    Not convinced the Steelers will be chasing an ILB that early, anyway..
    The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off, why should I?

    Light up the darkness.

    Comment

    • Dee Dub
      Hall of Famer
      • Jan 2010
      • 4652

      #47
      Originally posted by Shawn
      i don't claim to be a football guru like yourself...but the last time I checked making a basic tackle was in the job description of a football player. That has nothing to do with Warmack or the other ND defenders. It is what it is...he had a bad game. Just wonder what it means for his stock in the draft.
      Yes you are correct. And the Steelers have one of the best defensive football players (when healthy), in the entire world who misses tackles like that as well.

      Manti Te'o missed a couple of tackles in the open field versus a fabulous running back.

      And your point is?
      Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

      1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

      Comment

      • flippy
        Legend
        • Dec 2008
        • 17088

        #48
        Originally posted by Dee Dub
        hawaiian, dont waste your time trying to explain the game of football to these guys.

        Dick Butkus in his prime would not have been able to shake Chance Warmack one on one at the second level.
        And that might be the reason we should take Warmack if he's available. It's definitely not a need, but I'm thinking he just might be BPA when we pick.

        Guess we can always try and trade down since we don't need the BPA.
        sigpic

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        • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 10281

          #49
          I think what we saw was a result of a great coach and a championship team getting three weeks to prepare for a good coach and a good team.
          http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

          Comment

          • steelblood
            Hall of Famer
            • May 2008
            • 4166

            #50
            Originally posted by Dee Dub
            NFL teams and scouts will look at his complete body of work. Put me down as one who thinks he will be a great player in the NFL. And this game tonight will have nothing to do with it one way or the other.
            Yes, they will. But this game will count for more than most other games in scouts' analysis. As some have said, this is the sort of pro style offense and talent he will see on a weekly basis. I'm sure scouts and coach's put a lot more weight on this tape and the Stanford game than offenses that play gimmicky styles or lack NFL talent. The question was if Nix cannot occupy two blockers, is Te'o still a top ten talent. It sure didn't look like it last night. That said, I might still take him with the 17th pick as he has great talent and should be a good pro. But, I certainly would not trade up for him after that game. It matters.
            Even if Bill Belichick was getting an atomic wedgie, his face would look exactly the same.

            Comment

            • Shawn
              Legend
              • Mar 2008
              • 15131

              #51
              Originally posted by Dee Dub
              Yes you are correct. And the Steelers have one of the best defensive football players (when healthy), in the entire world who misses tackles like that as well.

              Manti Te'o missed a couple of tackles in the open field versus a fabulous running back.

              And your point is?
              My point is, in the biggest game of his life, against the best talent he has seen...he played poorly. Now people who have invested their egos into tooting this guy's horn are going to be apologists and talk down to those of us who are not "football gurus" like themselves.

              My only point is this...I want players who play big in big games. That performace by Te'o was pathetic. And while I'm not saying he isn't a quality player, that performance raised my eyebrow. And I assure you it will raise the eyebrows of many scouts around the league. How many players draft stock jump or fall based upon a Senior Bowl showing? This will be no different.
              Trolls are people too.

              Comment

              • Shawn
                Legend
                • Mar 2008
                • 15131

                #52
                Originally posted by feltdizz
                You gonna believe Dee or your lying eyes?

                Anyone who followed this ND team and didn't get wrapped up in the NBC hype could see he was good but not Heisman worthy.
                I'm going to believe Dee because I don't know anything about football.
                Trolls are people too.

                Comment

                • JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                  Hall of Famer
                  • May 2008
                  • 3937

                  #53
                  Someone in here said Bama's OL looked like a bunch of Probowlers & were dominant. Well, that is why the "tape" speaks volumes...That game fuels the speculation. Questions on how his game transitions to the NFL haven't been answered. Te'O against an NFL caliber OL....Didn't fair well. Ok...Maybe one game. Now they go back and look at other games and look closer at how he matches up against other NFL caliber players @ OL, TE, RB, & FB. Is there a Pattern? Are there more Struggles? Did his production benefit from the guys in front of him against lesser competition? If Te'O's Combine 10 yard split, cone times, & position work outs look average...Do things come into perspective? I think after last nights game...There are far more questions than answers. I think the only thing you could take from that game on Te'O is there is a greater chance he will be on the board at #17. That game didn't play himself out of the 1st round by no means but I belive he played himself out of the Top 10.

                  Comment

                  • steelz09
                    Administrator
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 4675

                    #54
                    Originally posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
                    Someone in here said Bama's OL looked like a bunch of Probowlers & were dominant. Well, that is why the "tape" speaks volumes...That game fuels the speculation. Questions on how his game transitions to the NFL haven't been answered. Te'O against an NFL caliber OL....Didn't fair well. Ok...Maybe one game. Now they go back and look at other games and look closer at how he matches up against other NFL caliber players @ OL, TE, RB, & FB. Is there a Pattern? Are there more Struggles? Did his production benefit from the guys in front of him against lesser competition? If Te'O's Combine 10 yard split, cone times, & position work outs look average...Do things come into perspective? I think after last nights game...There are far more questions than answers. I think the only thing you could take from that game on Te'O is there is a greater chance he will be on the board at #17. That game didn't play himself out of the 1st round by no means but I belive he played himself out of the Top 10.
                    I completely agree. Every player evaluator in the league will have to make those comparisons on tape and look very, very closely. I'm not in favor of drafting workout warriors that fair well in the combine but you can't dispute that Te'o's combine performance will matter.

                    If he's available at #17, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed with that selection as of now. I'd have to look at more of his play than just last night and other "highlights". I would also need to see some of his combine results.

                    IMO, he is not a top 10 pick right now. Add in the fact that ILB's don't typically get drafted that high anyways.

                    Here is a player comparison with the last ILB that I remember getting drafted as high as where Te'O is projected.

                    Patrick Willis (Ole Miss):

                    Year G-S UT AT TT TFL-YDS Sacks-Yds CF FR PD PRES INT BLK
                    2003 13-0 16 4 20 1.0-6 0-0 1
                    2004 10-0 54 16 70 11.0-62 5.0-39 1 1 1 4
                    2005 10-10 90 38 128 9.5-42 3.0-28 2 1 3 2 1
                    Total 33-10 160 58 218 21.5-110 8.0-67 3 2 4 7 1 0

                    *Didn't Willis play with a broken forearm his senior year?


                    Manti Te'O (Notre Dame)

                    Tackles Def Int Fumbles
                    Year Solo Ast Tot Loss Sk Int Yds Avg TD PD FR FF
                    [URL="http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_c ampaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Sha re&utm_campaign=ShareTool"]2009[/URL] 29 34 63 5.5 1.0 0 0 0 1 0 0
                    [URL="http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_c ampaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Sha re&utm_campaign=ShareTool"]2010[/URL] 66 67 133 9.5 1.0 0 0 0 3 0 1
                    [URL="http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_c ampaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Sha re&utm_campaign=ShareTool"]2011[/URL] 62 66 128 13.5 5.0 0 0 0 2 0 1
                    [URL="http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_c ampaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Sha re&utm_campaign=ShareTool"]2012[/URL] 52 51 103 5.5 1.5 7 35 5.0 0 11 1 0
                    Career 209 218 427 34.0 8.5 7 35 5.0 0 17 1 2
                    Tomlin: Let's unleash hell and "mop the floor" with the competition.

                    Comment

                    • Dee Dub
                      Hall of Famer
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 4652

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Oviedo
                      I would disagree with the blame your putting on the Notre Dame DL. Probably everyone of those defensive linemen will be playing on Sundays sooner or later
                      Ovi the difference between the D-lineman of Notre Dame and the O-lineman of Alabama is being NFL ready. Although they may eventually become NFL players in the future, Notre Dame's D-front is far from NFL ready. And Alabama's O-line is as ready as it gets. There's a big difference there.
                      Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

                      1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

                      Comment

                      • Dee Dub
                        Hall of Famer
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 4652

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Shawn
                        I'm going to believe Dee because I don't know anything about football.
                        Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

                        I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.
                        Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

                        1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

                        Comment

                        • Shawn
                          Legend
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 15131

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Dee Dub
                          Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

                          I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.
                          I'll try not to feel small and pathetic...thanks for your comforting words.
                          Trolls are people too.

                          Comment

                          • feltdizz
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 27531

                            #58
                            Patrick Willis played for Ole Miss in the SEC and went against NFL talent for 3 years.

                            I think it's fair to judge T'eo on his performance in this game since he was a Heisman finalist. You expect a guy to show up or make tackles instead of getting run over and run through by RB's when 1 on 1. T'eo looked slow and over matched IMO. He became popular because he suffered 2 deaths in the same week earlier this year and the team went on a good run.
                            Steelers 27
                            Rats 16

                            Comment

                            • feltdizz
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 27531

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Dee Dub
                              Shawn no need to get your feelings hurt. You have expressed your opinion about Te'o which I do not believe is correct. Simple as that. There was no intent on insulting you or anyone else. But it seems as if old wounds have not completely healed. So be it.

                              I stand by my thoughts on Te'o. And no pride or ego is involved and there certainly is no need to be an apologist. I've seen thousands of great players have bad games. Te'o's game last night does not change what I have seen of him over the past 4 years.
                              their D was awful before this year... night and day to be exact. They may not be NFL ready but they were pretty impressive outside of the PITT game. This wasn't a case of T'eo getting doubled... he missed more tackles in the first quarter then he did all season.
                              Steelers 27
                              Rats 16

                              Comment

                              • papillon
                                Legend
                                • Mar 2008
                                • 11340

                                #60
                                Originally posted by feltdizz
                                their D was awful before this year... night and day to be exact. They may not be NFL ready but they were pretty impressive outside of the PITT game. This wasn't a case of T'eo getting doubled... he missed more tackles in the first quarter then he did all season.
                                If I recall the Pitt game correctly the Panthers were able to neutralize Te'o as well, not necessarily from a physical standpoint, but from a scheme standpoint. They seemed to be able to avoid him or put him positions where he was making plays, but not the big splash play.

                                I know the folks that like Te'o will say look at his body of work and those that weren't sure of his stock status will say he was horrible and I hope my team doesn't draft him. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It would be difficult for me as a scout or GM to watch the game last night and say, "if that guy's available at 1.17 I'm taking him". Maybe, hey, he's had a great career and a bad game at the worst time, so if he's there in the second we'll take him.

                                There were so many other players that looked good that may be available at 1.17, Warmack, Jones, Lacy, Millner (not likely to fall that far) that it would be difficult to remove last night's game from the mix. Te'o's comments after the game were those of a high character player and that will count a lot as well. I wish him well, he's a good player that had a bad night at the worst time. However, I hope the Steelers pass on him if he's there at 1.17 and either Lacy, Warmack or Jones is there for the taking.

                                I would love for Trent Richardson II (provided he declares) to be wearing Black and Gold next year. Redman and Dwyer aren't in the same ball park as Lacy, IMO, that guy is downhill all the time.

                                Pappy
                                sigpic

                                The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

                                1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
                                3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
                                3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
                                4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
                                5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
                                7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

                                "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

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