There could be a bright spot in all of this....

[Dee Dub]

.....Kuechly has not helped them win more games this year. The Panthers go how Newton goes. He is a good LB'er. Does not make him worth the 9th overall pick.

Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of a player by the name of Mean Joe Green? He was the number one overall pick by the Steelers. His first year they went 1-13. He eventually had a huge impact on that team. And what did it take? They built around him.

[BigRob]

Are you kidding me? Have you ever heard of a player by the name of Mean Joe Green? He was the number one overall pick by the Steelers. His first year they went 1-13. He eventually had a huge impact on that team. And what did it take? They built around him.

Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

[feltdizz]

Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

I don't think there is a position besides QB that can instantly change a teams fortune. The Panthers also have a 2nd year QB and a HC in his second year. They also over paid the RB's and fired the ST's coach and the GM.

Do you really expect a change of fortune with a CB or OT in Carolina? No way....

However, you can look at the defense that was horrible at the beginning of the year and look at the improvements they made since putting Kuechly at his natural position in the middle.

[Dee Dub]

Once again, tell me a pure LB'er taken in the top 10 picks that has been an instant game changer recently? Kuechly, he has not been a game changer for them. He is a very good LB'er, but he hasn't changed their fortunes.

A pure LB'er in the top ten is not great value at all. There are much higher impact positions that can change a teams fortune. CB, OT, and/or a pass rusher offers much much better value in the top 10.

That is flawed thinking because as I pointed out Joe Green didn't immediately change the fortunes of the Steeler but he ultimately had one of the greatest impacts on a team in NFL history.

And I personally think the Steelers are maybe one player away on the D-side of the ball from being dominate again. And when you can add that it is worth it.

No CB in this draft would have the impact that T'eo would have on the Steelers. And since they already have 3 OLB (Harrison, Woodley, Worilds), I think that a pass rushers isnt as important right now. And besides as I have already said, picking 10-15 there isnt one this year who I think would have a greater impact than T'eo. Those whoa re going to be there (Mingo, Montgomery, Jordon, etc.), are all having down years. That's a no for me.

What type of impact did Junior Seau have on the Chargers? Brian Urlacher on the Bears? I think T'eo is going to have the same type.

[BigRob]

I don't think there is a position besides QB that can instantly change a teams fortune. The Panthers also have a 2nd year QB and a HC in his second year. They also over paid the RB's and fired the ST's coach and the GM.

Do you really expect a change of fortune with a CB or OT in Carolina? No way....

However, you can look at the defense that was horrible at the beginning of the year and look at the improvements they made since putting Kuechly at his natural position in the middle.

Are you telling me a top OT talent wouldn't change the Steelers offensive performance big time? Having another top CB would have certainly helped us to beat the Cowboys.

Have you seen our pass rush this year? The Panthers are winning simply because Newton is back to performing like Superman.

[BigRob]

That is flawed thinking because as I pointed out Joe Green didn't immediately change the fortunes of the Steeler but he ultimately had one of the greatest impacts on a team in NFL history.

And I personally think the Steelers are maybe one player away on the D-side of the ball from being dominate again. And when you can add that it is worth it.

No CB in this draft would have the impact that T'eo would have on the Steelers. And since they already have 3 OLB (Harrison, Woodley, Worilds), I think that a pass rushers isnt as important right now. And besides as I have already said, picking 10-15 there isnt one this year who I think would have a greater impact than T'eo. Those whoa re going to be there (Mingo, Montgomery, Jordon, etc.), are all having down years. That's a no for me.

What type of impact did Junior Seau have on the Chargers? Brian Urlacher on the Bears? I think T'eo is going to have the same type.

The Steelers pass rush has been atrocious this year. Harrison is going to be cut after this year. You really think we don't need anything behind Worilds/Woodley? I don't care if you think Mingo/Montgomery/Jordan have had down years. They are vastly superior athletes to Te'o that have much higher upside.

You really think the defense is going to be dominant again by adding one player? This defense needs several pieces. NT/DL/MLB/S.

[Dee Dub]

I never said ILB.. I said LB. Jones, Mosley, Minter are all as good as T'eo. Don't let the ND broadcasters fool you...

Like Rob said.. the story of T'eo is great and he plays on THE team when it comes to exposure and feel good stories...

I just think he is a little over rated due to the team he is on. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have him in the 15 to 18 range but at 10? No way...

felt, I would think that you would know that me of all people actually watches the college games for himself. It is my passion. As much as I love Kevin Minter he isnt what T'eo is. Neither is Mosely. Jarvis Jones is very special but he is an OLB who probably will be taken in the first 5 picks.

[Dee Dub]

The Steelers pass rush has been atrocious this year. Harrison is going to be cut after this year. You really think we don't need anything behind Worilds/Woodley? I don't care if you think Mingo/Montgomery/Jordan have had down years. They are vastly superior athletes to Te'o that have much higher upside.

You really think the defense is going to be dominant again by adding one player? This defense needs several pieces. NT/DL/MLB/S.

Yes I agree we do need another OLB but not picking at number 10-15. Second, third, or 4th round is more appropriate for team that will have two returning starters there next year. And yes, a player the caliber of T'eo could make this team dominate again. For one, I think Timmons will then be used a lot differently. Used more to his skill set and be turned loose more often.

I am saying this with the thought that players return to health (Polamalu and Woodley for instance), next year. And I believe once Heyward is given the starting spot he will become one of the better 3-4 DE.

[BigRob]

Yes I agree we do need another OLB but not picking at number 10-15. Second, third, or 4th round is more appropriate for team that will have two returning starters there next year. And yes, a player the caliber of T'eo could make this team dominate again. For one, I think Timmons will then be used a lot differently. Used more to his skill set and be turned loose more often.

I am saying this with the thought that players return to health (Polamalu and Woodley for instance), next year. And I believe once Heyward is given the starting spot he will become one of the better 3-4 DE.

Well, We'll have to agree to disagree. Nice debate though.

[Dee Dub]

Well, We'll have to agree to disagree. Nice debate though.

What I would like for you to do Rob is tell me who the Steelers should draft if they are picking at the 10 spot.

Here are the players who will probably be available at or near that pick....

Manti T'eo
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Dee Milliner CB
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
John Jenkins DT/NT

[BigRob]

What I would like for you to do Rob is tell me who the Steelers should draft if they are picking at the 10 spot.

Here are the players who will probably be available at or near that pick....

Manti T'eo
Barkevious Mingo DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Sam Montgomery DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Dion Jordan DE/OLB (has never played OLB)
Keenan Allen WR
Dee Milliner CB
Jake Mattews OT
Taylor Lewan OT
Matt Barkley QB
Chance Warmack OG
John Jenkins DT/NT

I would take Jordan and/or Mingo over Te'o based on upside alone. Jake Mathews would be my 3rd choice. This team still needs O-line/D-line/Pass Rush more than LB help.

My absolute preference would be to trade back and pick up additional picks. Thats what we need more than anything in a deep draft like this.

[Dee Dub]

Oh and I was incorrect. Steelers are currently drafting at pick number 17. If any of these teams win one of their last 2 games we move up (good chance on some of these teams doing that if not all) . If all do so and Steelers lose both of their last two games they pick at 11.

St. Louis
New Orleans
New York Jets
Miami
Tampa

If any of these teams win both of their last two games we move up (not likely).

San Diego
Buffalo
Cleveland
Tennessee
Carolina
Arizona

[Dee Dub]

I would take Jordan and/or Mingo over Te'o based on upside alone. Jake Mathews would be my 3rd choice. This team still needs O-line/D-line/Pass Rush more than LB help.

My absolute preference would be to trade back and pick up additional picks. Thats what we need more than anything in a deep draft like this.

So you would take Jordan and Mingo and their not so great 2012 college seasons? Wow. Mingo really hasnt done much this year. 33 tackles with only 4 sacks and 5.5 TFL. I would think you would want more from that high of a pick. Jordan has been better but he had a down year compared to 2011. If I were to do this based on up-side I'd rather they use that pick on Anthony Barr of UCLA. Monster year and only the first year he has ever played defense. But none of these guys gives you the value or the insurance as T'eo does.

As for OT you would be wasting that pick. Steelers have 3 OT's in the mix for next year (Starks, Gilbert, and Adams). Why add another?

[BigRob]

So you would take Jordan and Mingo and their not so great 2012 college seasons? Wow. Mingo really hasnt done much this year. 33 tackles with only 4 sacks and 5.5 TFL. I would think you would want more from that high of a pick. Jordan has been better but he had a down year compared to 2011. If I were to do this based on up-side I'd rather they use that pick on Anthony Barr of UCLA. Monster year and only the first year he has ever played defense. But none of these guys gives you the value or the insurance as T'eo does.

As for OT you would be wasting that pick. Steelers have 3 OT's in the mix for next year (Starks, Gilbert, and Adams). Why add another?

Neither Starks, Gilbert, or Adams will be as good as Mathews. We still need more talent on the O-line.

Mingo/Jordan are highly explosive players. Jordan is on the rise. Both of them have the great potential to be Jean Pierre-Paul type players. I would take that potential over Te'o at 10 or 11 any day.

ILB'ers can be found in the second round all day long and can come in and start. Players like Mingo and Jordan aren't found in the 2nd round.

[feltdizz]

Are you telling me a top OT talent wouldn't change the Steelers offensive performance big time? Having another top CB would have certainly helped us to beat the Cowboys.

Have you seen our pass rush this year? The Panthers are winning simply because Newton is back to performing like Superman.

Those guys would help just like Kuechly helps the Panthers get off the field more often so Newton can be superman. The guy had 16 tackles in the win over ATL. The Panthers aren't winning in shootouts... they went from 28th last year up to 10th this year in total D.

That's called improvement... you can't blame Kuechly because Newton is finally playing like superman again.

Not sure how you dismiss change on the Panthers based on wins and losses while ignoring improvements in defensive stats.