Cook: Turnovers, and lack thereof, the real issue

[phillyesq]

Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....

On third and long, regardless of base scheme, the responsibility is generally to pressure the QB. There are some exceptions -- with some QBs, you want to keep them in the pocket or whatever - but essentially, you want some pressure.

The players are the problem with the pass rush more than the scheme.

[Oviedo]

Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....

Exactly. You put Woodley at DE and let him just go after the QB versus chasing receivers and constantly pulling his hamstring. Hodd goes after the QB versus "occupying" offensive linemen. All your DL would get more one on one match ups versus getting double teamed.

[Chadman]

Plenty of great suggestions in here, and most lead toward the same theme- we need more plays on the Defense.

It could be that Warren Sapp was on to something. Our 'big plays' guys of the last 5 years are no longer making regular big plays- Harrison used to dominate 'games', now he can dominate the occasional play, but nowhere near the level of disruption he used to cause. Polamalu is probably not diminishing as much as some think he is, but you have to be concerned that he seems dinged up so often. Also, strangely, the defense actually looked 'better' this season without Troy. Keisel no longer appears in the backfield as much as he used to. Hampton no longer commands the same level of blocking as he used to. Even Ike has been more prone to 'grabbing on' to WR's this year in order to not lose his coverage.

These guys are getting old. They are losing a step, or two. And they can't be relied upon to dominate like they used to.

There are a couple of promising players on the roster- Keenan Lewis, obviously, Cortez Allen, Cameron Heyward, Jason Worilds... they all look like they can contribute. Dominate? Maybe, maybe not. The 2 CB's look like good guys- solid, strong- might not be Darrell Revis, but they'll be starting quality. Heyward is physically right. It's way too early to write him off- he needs gametime. Worilds looks good in patches.

If you were to ask Chadman how he'd go about revamping the Defense (excluding the shift to 4-3), it'd be as follows:

1. NT. Hampton is slowing down (or stopped), McClendon has not surpassed him to any level worthy of considering 'dominant'. Ta'amu needs to 'superman' himself after his brain-explosion. There is no 'genuine' progression plan in place at NT, and this is the position that needs to soak up blockers to make the OLB's & DE's & ILB's most effective. While stats won't ever back up the importance of this position- we need a new Hampton here, fast. No surprise the lack of genuine pressure on the QB has gone hand-in-hand with Hampton's regression.

2. Pass rushing OLB- while Chadman likes Worilds, unless he does something that makes us all think 'whoa', you can't just 'hope' he'll be a replacement for Harrison. While it's a real need, it could be that there is time to 'develop' one here so long as Worilds can step in as a starter for the short term.

3. Safeties- we need them. When Mundy & Allen are the back-ups to the aging starters, you need an upgrade. Not only that- we need playmakers that can cover & take the ball away. While Clark has been great, he's older than Troy. And Troy can't take the beating he gets every year without it catching up. These 2 are above the line, now, but it wouldn't take much for both of them to decline, and rapidly, at about the same time.

4. ILB- Foote isn't a long term answer & Sylvester hasn't come along like hoped. Spence, however, has 'playmaker' written all over him- so long as he comes back from his injury.

There are some problems with this team, going forward. But there are pieces in place- Timmons, Woodley, Hood (even though he's hated here), Lewis, Allen.... that's a nucleus right there. And looking at that group- there are playmakers there.

Get a few positions sorted, and this defense goes from 'good' to 'dominant'.

[hawaiiansteel]

Plenty of great suggestions in here, and most lead toward the same theme- we need more plays on the Defense.

this begs a much more important question:

when is Schiavone going to race again?

[Steelhere10]

I have to disagree a bit on that one. There were multiple times in the second half Romo was under immediate pressure due to a blitz, but had complete confidence to simply throw the ball (almost without looking) out to Bryant regardless of coverage, because he knew his guy could beat Lewis or Victorian (mostly Victorian). At one point on a 3rd and 4 Victorian was giving the WR on his side of the field a 12 yard cushion and Lewis was in press coverage.

Of all the injuries (excluding Ben) Ike Taylor going down hurt the most. Our pass defense went from really good to really bad in the past 3 weeks. Hopefully, Lewis will be able to go this weekend; if he isn't, AJ Green might be able to get into the HOF after one game playing against Victorian.

Romo was playing against practice squad corners yesterday. There were more than the one time described above where he clearly just threw it without looking knowing his guy was way better than any corner the Steelers had on the field.

Pappy

OK let me ask you this, do you consider a 4 man rush a blitz in a 3-4 defense, I guess you can say that but really 4 rushers against 5 OL is not a blitz to me. I saw plenty of times Romo just sit in the pocket with no pressure at all and pick the D apart. I know it's hard to do when you have backup cb playing but even when we had healthy cb it has been a theme for this defense the last couple of years and if you want coincidence as to why there have been less TO for the defense I think that would be why, If you hurry the QB mainly ones who don't like pressure including Romo I think the TO will come. Phill Simms brought up a good point when he said there are three things that DL wants and two was don't get beat deep and tackle. Well you will be high in the rankings if you don't get beat deap, but guess what you want have many To's.

[Chadman]

this begs a much more important question:

when is Schiavone going to race again?

January 2 is what we are aiming for- 1100m 3 year old filly/mare race at "Royal" Doomben.... fingers crossed. Track work has been, quote from the trainer, 'sensational'.

[papillon]

OK let me ask you this, do you consider a 4 man rush a blitz in a 3-4 defense, I guess you can say that but really 4 rushers against 5 OL is not a blitz to me. I saw plenty of times Romo just sit in the pocket with no pressure at all and pick the D apart. I know it's hard to do when you have backup cb playing but even when we had healthy cb it has been a theme for this defense the last couple of years and if you want coincidence as to why there have been less TO for the defense I think that would be why, If you hurry the QB mainly ones who don't like pressure including Romo I think the TO will come. Phill Simms brought up a good point when he said there are three things that DL wants and two was don't get beat deep and tackle. Well you will be high in the rankings if you don't get beat deap, but guess what you want have many To's.

By definition a blitz is rushing more players than the offense has linemen to block them. Of course, I doubt that is the definition that anyone uses, because it wouldn't be a blitz then until you are rushing 6 defensive players. Lets say that Hood, Kiesel and Heyward are the linemen, that's three, then Harrison or Woodley makes the 4th, it's still not a blitz, but if Timmons, Foote or Polamalu come then in my mind you have a blitz. And, each of those three guys rushed the passer at different times yesterday. Timmons had his sack on what I believe was a "blitz", Foote made a play in the backfield or hurried Romo (I can't remember which exactly) and Polamalu was dancing with an offensive tackle a couple of times. The Steelers "blitzed" and Romo wasn't even worried about where he was going with the ball, he just threw it and it ended up a completion because of bad coverage.

It's why many sacks are a combination of coverage and pass rushing. If Ike's in the game yesterday, he may have had a pick or Lewis may have had a pick, because a couple of Romo's throws were made without setting his feet and without looking during what I would call a "blitz". I wish I had the video of the game to embed. I can remember thinking when I saw Romo just turn and heave it that there was no way the pass was getting to the intended receiver and then lo and behold Bryant shows up with a Steeler CB yards behind him. I was stunned that the pass could be completed.

Pappy

[Steelhere10]

I'm going to rewatch the game maybe tonight or tomorrow and try and see but from game play memory I think I saw two occasions where the Steelers sent 5 and they both were in the same drive one was a completion to Autston on a out route. But when DL send a Timmons, Foote etc you will see one or both Olb drop into coverage thus still making it a4 man rush. I think also after the Brown fumble they sent allout blitz on the goal line twice. And from memory no completion for Romo.

[Oviedo]

Four men a blitz does not make. That has been the problem for two years now. Too predictable.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Four men a blitz does not make. That has been the problem for two years now. Too predictable.

And exactly how is your beloved 4-3 defense less predictable? Everyone know which 4 guys are rushing in a 4-3. Not so much with a 3-4 zone blitz scheme.

[Oviedo]

And exactly how is your beloved 4-3 defense less predictable? Everyone know which 4 guys are rushing in a 4-3. Not so much with a 3-4 zone blitz scheme.

Because the 4-3 is the base defense with a minimum of 4, not 3, rushing on every play. It isn't a blitz until you send one or two additional. Because you play the 4-3 doesn't mean you stop blitzing but you do generate more of a pass rush and pressure each and every play with 4 versus 3. In addition, those 4 DL aren't instructed to "occupy blockers" so the LBs can make a play. They are expected to make plays.

[Slapstick]

The "blitz" term is pretty much predicated on a 4-3 base...in the 4-3 base, you have 4 guys rushing the passer and 7 dropping into coverage...

So, a "blitz" would be when a 5th pass rusher goes after the QB...

Our "zone blitz" usually isn't an actual blitz in most cases...in the 3-4, any one of the LBs could be a pass rusher...with the zone blitz, a player that normally drops into coverage rushes the passer while another player drops into coverage...they may not send 5 rushers at all, but one of the four that they do send is someone who the QB is not supposed to expect...

[steelfin]

QB pressure and TOs are related and I agree we are struggling in both categories this year...but the season would look a lot different if the offense and special teams could hold onto the ball...

STAT THAT STICKS: 18 -- Turnovers by the Steelers over the past five weeks, the most in the NFL. Pittsburgh committed two critical ones Sunday: [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13934/antonio-brown"]Antonio Brown[/URL]'s fumble in the fourth quarter and [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5536/ben-roethlisberger"]Ben Roethlisberger[/URL]'s interception in overtime.


While I can't argue that the defense needs to generate more TOs, the opposite holds true for the other side of the ball. A quite frankly, the defense is playing well enough to win many of the games we lost...if only we didnt turn the ball over....

[hawaiiansteel]

Steelers’ D Getting a Pass Again?

Dec 18

I was once told by a fairly ‘respected’ Pittsburgh Steelers’ writer that statistics don’t mean anything when talking football. Stats, he said, “were for Skip Bayless.” While I don’t necessarily disagree with that sentiment, there are however some numbers you just can’t avoid discussing and that number continues to center around ‘one.’

The Steelers’ defense was ranked number one in the league entering last week’s game in Dallas and also rated number one against the pass. Has the defense played well this year? Considering the problems on offense in recent weeks I’d say yes, but then there is Denver and Oakland and Tennessee and then Sunday in Dallas.

Fans can complain and make points about the injuries on Sunday and while those may not be completely thrown out, they cannot be an excuse. Every team deals with injuries. It’s the nature of the beast and you need to accept it.

Tony Romo completed 30 of 42 passes for 341 yards and two touchdowns. He did not turn the ball over either which is something he typically does once or twice per week. When you have young guys in the secondary you have to find ways to help them and that falls on the guys along the front seven. Unfortunately, the pressure applied by these guys was minimal and far too infrequent. Had ‘Jerry World’ had a grass field, Romo still would have had a clean jersey at the end of the day.

James Harrison rarely got pressure and LaMarr Woodley was as absent as a Super Bowl Trophy in Cleveland. Yes, Harrison still made plays and that can’t go unmentioned, but both men are paid extremely well to get to the other team’s quarterback and Woodley especially is falling woefully short.

The front three, which we know are not necessarily responsible for getting pressure have done little of that anyway. Brett Keisel and Ziggy Hood have had their moments but have been far too inconsistent. Cam Heyward is starting to become a disappointment in my mind. Two years in now and I have yet to see significant plays from him.

I’m still waiting for an explanation as to where Steve McLendon is? The guy who impressed last season and during the preseason continues to see far too few snaps in my opinion. That isn’t a knock on Casey Hampton, but McLendon needs more time on defense especially in passing situations.

What we have to realize is this defense is no longer ‘BlitzBurgh’ and anyone thinking it is has not watched this team this year or last for that matter. The speed on the edges is gone. Harrison and Woodley have never really been speed rushers anyway the way a Jason Gildon once was. Teams no longer worry about having to get rid of the ball quickly and they have chip-blocked less and less through the season.

So how does this defense have such a strong ranking then right? This is not as difficult to explain as you might think. First of all, the Steelers might be first in total defense but they are eighth in points allowed at 20.8 points given up per game. You know how the defense has been on the field a lot the last two weeks? Believe it or not, they are second in the league in terms of how much time they are on the field. That makes the 20 points given up per game even more glaring.

Perhaps the most disturbing stat for this defense is that they rank 28th in the league in takeaways. After last year’s dead-last rating, many of us thought that was just a hiccup but it is becoming a trend. In three of the last five seasons, the Pittsburgh defense has rated 23rd or below in takeaways. In the two years they were better, they were in the top 10.

Compare the Steelers’ defense to the top 10 in takeaways in 2012 and you’ll notice only two teams in that group that aren’t in the playoff hunt. There’s a correlation there and it can’t be denied. Teams that limit scoring and create turnovers are just as good as teams that have number one rankings.

Yes, health is always an issue as it is for every team, but this team relies far too much on letting other teams make mistakes rather than forcing them. The ‘bend-don’t-break’ mentality of Dick LeBeau is out of touch and no longer applicable with today’s game and especially with this team’s talent or lack thereof. The defense has to get younger and more importantly faster on the edges. If that means putting Woodley back to his down position at end that he played in college then so be it.

As troubled as this offense is, the defense isn’t exactly a model of perfection despite their ranking either. There is only one ‘number one’ we should be concerned with at the end of the season and that’s the number one team in the league, not defense. After all, where did the number one defensive ranking get us last year?

[URL]http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_d_getting_a_pass_again/12463375[/URL]

[Steelhere10]

Great article Hawaiian. That's what I was sayin earlier, playing not to get beat deep and somewhat passive will keep the rankings high but the TO low.