Cook: Turnovers, and lack thereof, the real issue

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  • hawaiiansteel
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 35648

    Cook: Turnovers, and lack thereof, the real issue

    Cook: Turnovers, and lack thereof, the real issue

    December 17, 2012
    By Ron Cook / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    ARLINGTON, Texas -- Linebacker Lawrence Timmons had the Steelers' only sack Sunday, throwing Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo for a 13-yard loss in the third quarter. Linebacker James Harrison forced the Cowboys' only turnover, stripping the ball from running back DeMarco Murray late in the first quarter deep in Steelers territory to set up a fumble recovery by defensive end Brett Keisel. The defense didn't have an interception for the seventh time in 14 games and has just seven for the season.

    "That's not going to win ballgames," Steelers safety Troy Polamalu said.

    It didn't Sunday, that's for sure.

    Not when the Cowboys defense had four sacks, recovered a fumble and had an overtime interception that won the game, 27-24.

    The Steelers started the day with a turnover ratio of minus-13, which ranked 29th in the 32-team NFL. That it is now minus-14 is a pretty good reason the Steelers have lost four of five games, are a decidedly mediocre 7-7 and need to win their final two games at home against the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns to make the playoffs.

    "Their defense outplayed our defense today," Polamalu said. "We weren't able to get field position with pressure the way their defense did. We couldn't stop the run in cover-2. We missed tackles and had to put eight men in the box. That put the corners on an island ...

    "Everything worked together."

    Or, more correctly, didn't work together.


    It's not as if the Steelers offense bailed the team out. The guys who are supposed to be stars came up small at the worst times. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger threw a horrible interception to cornerback Brandon Carr on the second play of overtime. His pass was well behind wide receiver Mike Wallace, who made things worse by turning into a spectator and allowing Carr to get up and return the interception 36 yards to the Steelers 1. Wide receiver Antonio Brown -- the team's Most Valuable Player last season -- lost a fumble at the end of a 22-yard punt return in the fourth quarter, let another punt roll to cost the Steelers valuable field position and failed to stay inbounds to stop the clock when the Steelers were going to have to punt late in regulation. The rebuilt offensive line -- rookie David DeCastro made his first NFL start at right guard, bumping Ramon Foster to left guard -- couldn't get the running game going and allowed Roethlisberger to be sacked four times in the second half.

    "100 percent ... This is on me," Roethlisberger said. "I let the team, the fans, everybody down."

    It's also easy to blame the Steelers' patched-up secondary for the loss. Starter Ike Taylor (ankle) missed his second consecutive game, not coincidentally a second loss.

    His backup, Cortez Allen (hip) also sat out, forcing Josh Victorian to start at cornerback and Robert Golden to play nickel back. It didn't help that starting cornerback Keenan Lewis left midway through the fourth quarter after making a spectacular play to break up a pass for wide receiver Dez Bryant in the end zone. That forced cornerback Curtis Brown into action, a move the coaches clearly didn't want to make after Brown played lousy a week earlier in the loss to the San Diego Chargers.

    Romo threw for 341 yards and two touchdowns and had a passer rating of 111.3. He regularly picked on Victorian, who admitted he was a "little shaky" in the first half but thought he played better in the second half. Steelers linebacker Larry Foote and safety Ryan Clark thought all of the young guys played better as the game went on.

    "We played our same defense," Foote said. "We probably even went a little more zero coverage than usual. We left those guys on an island the whole game and they held up."

    "That isn't why we lost," Clark said of the young secondary. "They were throwing a lot of hitches and outs. It's not like they were beating us with deep routes."

    The old guys are right.

    It took Brown's fumble at the Steelers 44 for the Cowboys to get the tying touchdown after the Steelers had gone ahead, 24-17, and Roethlisberger's interception for the Cowboys to get the winning field goal.

    It's simple, isn't it?

    The Cowboys won because they forced more turnovers.

    You want to know the biggest reason the Steelers have lost four of five games?Their opponents forced 18 turnovers in those five games, they forced four.

    It really is simple.

    [URL]http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/ron-cook/cook-turnovers-and-lack-thereof-the-real-issue-666691/#ixzz2FHavsKm3[/URL]
  • Slapstick
    Rookie
    • May 2008
    • 0

    #2
    Opponents "forced" 18 turnovers?

    About 1/4 of those were actually "forced"...the rest were just crappy, bonehead plays....
    Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

    Comment

    • Steelhere10
      Hall of Famer
      • May 2008
      • 3849

      #3
      Turnovers come when the Qb is under duress especially Romo, yet the a Steelers refuse to bring the house on this guy and sit back and bring a 4 man rush all game. That's why the team haven't forced any.
      [url=http://img525.imageshack.us/i/steelers2010.jpg/]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2...eelers2010.jpg[/url]

      Comment

      • Jooser
        Legend
        • Jul 2008
        • 5102

        #4
        We are turnover challenged.
        ​2019 MNFE CHAMPION

        Comment

        • Starlifter
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 5078

          #5
          Originally posted by Jooser
          We are turnover challenged.
          it's been that way for a few years now.
          2014 MNF EXEC CHAMPION!!!

          Comment

          • Oviedo
            Legend
            • May 2008
            • 23824

            #6
            Two weeks in a row against one of the worst OLs in the NFL and we can't touch the QB. Our pass rush makes them look like the Redskins' "Hogs" of the 80s. The inability to get real pressure on the QB renders this defense mediocre at best.
            "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

            Comment

            • Jooser
              Legend
              • Jul 2008
              • 5102

              #7
              Originally posted by Oviedo
              Two weeks in a row against one of the worst OLs in the NFL and we can't touch the QB. Our pass rush makes them look like the Redskins' "Hogs" of the 80s. The inability to get real pressure on the QB renders this defense mediocre at best.
              Yes, and the inability for the OL to create a push for the running game, RB's fumbling, WR's dropping passes, and Ben throwing INTs renders this offense LESS than mediocre. The whole team is sick, starting with the coaching staff down.
              ​2019 MNFE CHAMPION

              Comment

              • pfelix73
                Hall of Famer
                • Aug 2008
                • 3458

                #8
                We need to draft some potential play makers on defense...........
                6- Time Super Bowl Champions......
                IX X XIII XIV XL XLIII

                2012 MNF Executive Champion

                sigpic



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                • Oviedo
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 23824

                  #9
                  Originally posted by pfelix73
                  We need to draft some potential play makers on defense...........
                  Absolutely. Our defenses inability to sack the QB and get turnovers means we have zero margin for error. That is why when we make a mistake it usually costs us the game. This is the biggest difference in our defense the last two years. We can't buy a sack or turnover. Players or scheme, but something needs to change or we need to get use to being a 9-7 team.
                  "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                  Comment

                  • flippy
                    Legend
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 17088

                    #10
                    We need a dominant NT.

                    And too his credit, James Harrison tries to get the ball every chance he gets. He even fights guys after he tackles them. I get a feeling he's ready to explode. If we could just get Troy and Ben to up their games, we might be ok.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Oviedo
                      Legend
                      • May 2008
                      • 23824

                      #11
                      Originally posted by flippy
                      We need a dominant NT.

                      And too his credit, James Harrison tries to get the ball every chance he gets. He even fights guys after he tackles them. I get a feeling he's ready to explode. If we could just get Troy and Ben to up their games, we might be ok.
                      I'll sing the old song "We need the 4-3!"

                      We don't have the players to successfully do the 3-4. You need dominant OLBs and we don't have them. Harrison tries hard but doesn't get to the QB anymore. Woodley has gotten fat and happy on his big contract and is a non-factor. Our pass rush is pathetic and on track for one of the worst sack totals in two decades. Same with Interceptions. This is a two to three year trend and it is time to wake up a recognize we need a major change not a cosmetic one or waiting two to three more years to get the players to "maybe" turn it around.
                      "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                      Comment

                      • phillyesq
                        Legend
                        • May 2008
                        • 7568

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Oviedo
                        I'll sing the old song "We need the 4-3!"

                        We don't have the players to successfully do the 3-4. You need dominant OLBs and we don't have them. Harrison tries hard but doesn't get to the QB anymore. Woodley has gotten fat and happy on his big contract and is a non-factor. Our pass rush is pathetic and on track for one of the worst sack totals in two decades. Same with Interceptions. This is a two to three year trend and it is time to wake up a recognize we need a major change not a cosmetic one or waiting two to three more years to get the players to "maybe" turn it around.
                        I fail to see how putting Woodley, Hood, Heyward and the rest in a 4-3 will make them anymore effective. The problem is not the scheme - it is the players.

                        Comment

                        • BradshawsHairdresser
                          Legend
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 7056

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Slapstick
                          Opponents "forced" 18 turnovers?

                          About 1/4 of those were actually "forced"...the rest were just crappy, bonehead plays....
                          Originally posted by Steelhere10
                          Turnovers come when the Qb is under duress especially Romo, yet the a Steelers refuse to bring the house on this guy and sit back and bring a 4 man rush all game. That's why the team haven't forced any.
                          Originally posted by Oviedo
                          Two weeks in a row against one of the worst OLs in the NFL and we can't touch the QB. Our pass rush makes them look like the Redskins' "Hogs" of the 80s. The inability to get real pressure on the QB renders this defense mediocre at best.
                          Originally posted by Jooser
                          Yes, and the inability for the OL to create a push for the running game, RB's fumbling, WR's dropping passes, and Ben throwing INTs renders this offense LESS than mediocre. The whole team is sick, starting with the coaching staff down.
                          Originally posted by pfelix73
                          We need to draft some potential play makers on defense...........
                          Any one of these statements has a whole lot more truth than Cook's article.

                          I think we also see how meaningless some statistics are. The Steelers (at least going into this last weekend) had the #1 defense in the NFL when going by yards allowed per game.
                          But in today's NFL, unless you get some turnovers, you're really not the #1 defense. In fact, you might be mediocre. In today's NFL, with the rules favoring the offense, you can't count on stopping the opponent, so you'd better, at times, get the ball away from them (you need pressure and playmakers on D), and you'd better have an offense that can score some points when you get the ball. We don't, and that's why we're sitting at 7-7, on the outside looking in.
                          Last edited by BradshawsHairdresser; 12-17-2012, 01:02 PM.

                          Comment

                          • papillon
                            Legend
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 11340

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Steelhere10
                            Turnovers come when the Qb is under duress especially Romo, yet the a Steelers refuse to bring the house on this guy and sit back and bring a 4 man rush all game. That's why the team haven't forced any.
                            I have to disagree a bit on that one. There were multiple times in the second half Romo was under immediate pressure due to a blitz, but had complete confidence to simply throw the ball (almost without looking) out to Bryant regardless of coverage, because he knew his guy could beat Lewis or Victorian (mostly Victorian). At one point on a 3rd and 4 Victorian was giving the WR on his side of the field a 12 yard cushion and Lewis was in press coverage.

                            Of all the injuries (excluding Ben) Ike Taylor going down hurt the most. Our pass defense went from really good to really bad in the past 3 weeks. Hopefully, Lewis will be able to go this weekend; if he isn't, AJ Green might be able to get into the HOF after one game playing against Victorian.

                            Romo was playing against practice squad corners yesterday. There were more than the one time described above where he clearly just threw it without looking knowing his guy was way better than any corner the Steelers had on the field.

                            Pappy
                            sigpic

                            The 2025 Pittsburgh Steeler draft

                            1.21 - Derrick Harmon, DT, Oregon - Nick Emmanwori, S, S. Carolina
                            3.83 - Kaleb Johnson, RB, Iowa - DJ Giddens, RB, Kans St
                            3.123 - Will Howard, QB, OSU
                            4.156 - JJ Pegues, DT, Ole Miss
                            5.185 - Clay Webb, OG, Jack St
                            7.229 - Tyrion Ingram-Dawkins, DT, Georgia

                            "Football is a physical game, well, it used to be anyways" - Mel Blount

                            Comment

                            • Slapstick
                              Rookie
                              • May 2008
                              • 0

                              #15
                              Originally posted by phillyesq
                              I fail to see how putting Woodley, Hood, Heyward and the rest in a 4-3 will make them anymore effective. The problem is not the scheme - it is the players.
                              Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....
                              Actually, my post was NOT about you...but, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that &!+€# up and wear it.

                              Comment

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