the guys in stripes......

[SDSteel1]

The NFL is even more at fault for letting this get out of hand. All Goodell needs to do is warn all players and coaches that they will be held accountable for their actions pertaining to the new refs. Basically make effing with the refs and questioning calls and starting chaotic crap like fights or trying to influence refs by begging for a flag punishable by fine and suspension. I would start today by suspending John Fox, Flacco, and I would even suspend announcers who bring attention to the replacement refs. I would lock the whole thing down and then there would be no one holding up games or trying to confuse and take advantage of the new guys. Pretty easy fix, and it should have been addressed before the season started with the new guys. It's the players, the coaches and the media that are pouring gasoline on the situation.

[fezziwig]

i noticed how santonio bullied the refs into throwing the flags. he does that stuff all the time but these new refs are falling for it.

[Ghost]

In case you didn't see it: McCoy, RB for the Eagles is claiming a replacement ref approached him DURING the the game and said, "McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy" after talking to him about his fantasy team.

[URL]http://tracking.si.com/2012/09/18/lesean-mccoy-replacement-ref-fantasy-eagles/[/URL]

[Slapstick]

"McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy"

Was this ref sexually propositioning him?

[fezziwig]

In case you didn't see it: McCoy, RB for the Eagles is claiming a replacement ref approached him DURING the the game and said, "McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy" after talking to him about his fantasy team.

[URL]http://tracking.si.com/2012/09/18/lesean-mccoy-replacement-ref-fantasy-eagles/[/URL]

Thanks for sharing Ghost. I have no probem with the refs having his favorite team and I'm sure the regular refs do to. I know you shouldn't wear the other teams color but the fact remains, these refs are going to have their favorites. I jut hope they are honorable enough not to let that stuff sway them during the games.
As for Ray Lewis, did you expect anything less from him ? I'm sure these refs are intimidated by the big name players, coaches, spot light and all that comes along with the NFL. It's one thing for Santonio to cry the blues for a flag but when a big guy like Lewis puts out his chest and all that muscle stuff, that is intimidating/bullying the refs.

Does anyone know what the regular refs are asking for that, the NFL won't give up ?

[Slapstick]

Does anyone know what the regular refs are asking for that, the NFL won't give up ?

I read $10 million over 10 years...

So, the refs want approximaely 0.1% of the revenue that the NFL will generate this year alone, but spread out over 10 years...

[fezziwig]

I wonder what that comes to compared to their present salary ?

[RuthlessBurgher]

Having a super-early week 4 bye typically sucks, but at least it means that we get one less game with the replacement refs this year.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I read $10 million over 10 years...

So, the refs want approximaely 0.1% of the revenue that the NFL will generate this year alone, but spread out over 10 years...

Their pensions are a big part of it too. The NFL pays into a 401K for most of its full-time employees, but the part-time refs get a full pension instead. The NFL wants to cut what they are paying into the current refs pensions, and then start paying any new incoming refs a 401K retirement plan from now on instead of the current pension system.

[NorthCoast]

The only reason why it seems like the "replacement refs" suck more than the other refs is because the media is talking about how bad they suck. Otherwise there is no drop off, the refs have blown games year after year, and blow calls game after game but no one has ever held them accountable...especially the media. Now announcers and players are being verbal about the new guys. The refs are exactly the same. They are crappy, they make numerous mistakes, the over officiate, they are just plain bad, just like last year and the year before that. The only thing that has changed is now the announcers are calling them out.

I happen to agree completely SD. The media has created a firestorm and is fanning it at every opportunity. It seems there may be an agenda behind their actions. Bottomline, I look to see if the refs got the call right at the end of the day. The fact is, most times they DO get it right. Maybe it takes a little longer but keep in mind these guys have little to no experience at the pro level so I give them a very generous benefit of the doubt. No way the media treats the regular refs this way, even though they have just as many controversial calls on any given Sunday. I actually like the way the replacements are no-calling a lot of the PIs. at least it gives the DBs a chance to fight, instead of catch-and-tackle. They don't favor pretty boys and they don't target guys with reputations.
I don't get the media's agenda, maybe they don't like union-busting scabs. I don't want to see regular refs back anytime soon. They seem to 'hide' behind the rule book. I would rather live with a call here or there. Maybe I will change my mind if the Steelers lose one cause of a call, but it also wouldn't be the first time it happens, even with the regulars.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I actually like the way the replacements are no-calling a lot of the PIs. at least it gives the DBs a chance to fight, instead of catch-and-tackle. They don't favor pretty boys and they don't target guys with reputations.

But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

[NorthCoast]

But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

Probably will take a few weeks to grow the thick skin of the regular refs....

[NorthCoast]

But they seem to respond to players pouting for the flag Cedrick-Wilson-style much more than the regular refs. Many times, in multiple games (not just Steeler games), I've seen the play end, no call is made, then a player or a coach whines about the non-call, and the flag gets thrown after the fact. That's bullcrap. Either you saw the penalty when it happened or you didn't. Even the real refs would blow calls if they didn't see the play in the split second it happened, but for the most part, they wouldn't be influenced by the bitching/moaning like these new refs seem to be now.

The other thing i would add, the regular refs might not give them the call on THAT play, but i seen plenty of examples of makeup calls on the back end after the pouting happens.

[fordfixer]

NFL owner admits that the confidence in replacement officials is eroding

[URL]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-owner-admits-that-confidence-is-eroding-in-replacements-officials.html;_ylt=At_BBIV8T_dxKRUBrQcK6LBDubYF;_ ylu=X3oDMTRqdTQxM2RwBG1pdANMU1RTIE1peGVkIExpc3QgTk ZMIEV4cGVydHMEcGtnAzI1ZTAwMzczLTAxNzMtMzg3Zi1hZjA3 LTY2MzBjYzE3M2Y3OQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCTGlzdE1peG VkTFBDQVRlbXAEdmVyAzFhM2RiMTIwLTAxZTctMTFlMi1hZGU3 LTAzNWVjNGQ3YzI3OQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoZHY1MWJpBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANuZmwEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3[/URL]

Jason Cole

Let me start off by admitting I was shortsighted about one problem with the NFL's replacement refs: Their decided lack of experience with the procedures of running a game are so bad that it's affecting everyone's confidence.

And by everyone, I mean fans, coaches, players and at least one owner who spoke Tuesday morning on the condition of anonymity.

"I'm not comfortable with what I saw last night," the owner said after watching the Atlanta Falcons' 27-21 victory over the Denver Broncos. "It wasn't professional. It wasn't our standards of what a game is supposed to look like … it's not the calls themselves and it's not player safety. That's a silly argument.

"It's the competence and control of the game officials. The officials are supposed to be in control. They're supposed to run the game. Last night after the fumble [by Denver in the first quarter], they didn't have control. They looked like … I don't want to say what they looked like."

Last night's poorly run game capped a long Week 2 in which two conflict-of-interest issues further eroded the confidence in the replacement refs.


The NFL revealed in a memo last week that one official in the Week 1 Seattle-Arizona game had worked some practices and had been paid in the offseason by the Seahawks. Another ref was yanked from the New Orleans-Carolina game on Sunday morning when it was discovered he is a diehard Saints fan.

In a third matter, Philadelphia Eagles running back LeSean McCoy claimed that a ref told him Sunday that he had McCoy on his fantasy team. However, McCoy later said he was joking.

Oy vey. While neither of these first two issues may have ultimately determined the outcome of a game, but that's not the point. Power is often about appearance, not reality.

That was the essence of the one owner's sentiments. It's also what Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan was hinting at Sunday after his team lost to the St. Louis Rams. Shanahan said the refs were dangerously close to "losing control of the game."

On Monday night, the refs did lose control of the game in the first quarter when they couldn't keep control of a scrum after a fumble. The six-minute delay in action made the refs look helpless. They confirmed that again later in the first half when they marched off 11 yards on a defensive holding call that was supposed to be only five yards.

Again, this is not about the actual calls. Yes, there have been plenty of mistakes in that regard. The Ravens-Eagles game featured a missed pass interference call. In New England's loss to the Cardinals, the Patriots had a last-minute touchdown called back because of a highly questionable holding call against tight end Rob Gronkowski.

But questionable calls happen all the time, whether they are replacement refs or the regular guys.

The real issue is how the game is handled. Right now, there are critical stoppages in play where everyone is staring at the officials. The question running through everybody's minds (if not over their lips) is simply, "Do these guys know what they're doing?"


That's not just bad, it's unacceptable. The one owner wouldn't quite go that far, but it wouldn't take much more to push him over that edge.

LeSean McCoy celebrates his TD in the Eagles' won over the Ravens. (Getty)"I know that we feel good about the offer we've made to the officials, but we can't have another week like this if we don't settle soon," the owner said. "The amount of money we're talking about is not worth the embarrassment. This is our product."

That comment is the first major crack in the wall of solidarity the owners have had as they hold the line on salaries for officials. To an extent, both the NFL and the NFL Referees Association are right in how they are handling this negotiation.

The NFL believes, not wrongly, that the salary offer it has made is adequate. "We are ready to negotiate at any time," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email to Yahoo! Sports."

Last season, the average NFL official made $149,000 and the league is offering roughly a five percent increase. There are other issues in play, such as the league's desire to change the pension plan to a 401K.


On the flipside, the NFLRA is perfectly within its rights to wait out the negotiation to get as much as it can. Currently, the difference amounts to roughly $1 million per year as part of a 10-year deal. In the grand scheme of the NFL business, that doesn't seem like much.

Then again, it's always easy to spend somebody else's money. Bottom line, it's a negotiation and the two sides will figure it out.

In the meantime, you can't help but wonder if the replacement refs are going to figure it out.

[fordfixer]

Replacement officials taking heat
By ROB MAADDI (AP Pro Football Writer) | The Associated Press

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/replacement-officials-taking-heat-081949253--nfl.html[/url]


One official was pulled from duty because he's a fan. Another negated a touchdown without ever throwing a penalty flag. Several others had difficulty with basic rules.

Upon further review, the NFL's replacement officials came up short in Week 2.

Coaches and players around the league are losing patience and speaking out against the fill-in officials following a slew of questionable calls in the games Sunday and Monday night.

Some players are even joking about dipping into their own pockets to settle the contract dispute and get the regular officials back on the field.

''I don't know what they're arguing about, but I got a couple of (million) on it, so let's try to make it work,'' Washington defensive back DeAngelo Hall said, kiddingly, on Monday. ''I'm sure the locker room could pot up some cash and try to help the cause out.''

The NFL locked out the regular officials in June after their contract expired. Negotiations with the NFL Referees Association broke down several times during the summer, including just before the season, and the league is using replacements for the first time since 2001.

The results have been mixed.

Just hours before kickoff Sunday, the NFL removed side judge Brian Stropolo from the New Orleans-Carolina game because it was discovered he's a Saints fan.

Then came the on-field problems.

In Philadelphia's 24-23 win over Baltimore, two game-altering calls left quarterback Joe Flacco and linebacker Ray Lewis fuming, though it appeared on replay that both calls were accurate. That didn't make them any less controversial.

Flacco's scoring pass to receiver Jacoby Jones in the fourth quarter was called back because of offensive pass interference. The official who made the call didn't throw the yellow flag, though he immediately signaled a penalty.

''I might sound like a little bit of a baby here,'' Flacco said, ''but for them to make that call, I think, was a little crazy.''

There was confusion later during Philadelphia's go-ahead drive. First, the two-minute warning occurred twice. Then, quarterback Michael Vick's forward pass was called a fumble inside the Ravens 5. It was ruled incomplete following a replay, and Vick scored on the next play after a few anxious moments.

''It's extra stress when you have to sit there and wait,'' Vick said. ''The one thing you don't want to do, you don't want to put the game in the officials' hands.''

Lewis, like many players around the league, has seen enough.

''The time is now,'' he said. ''How much longer are we going to keep going through this whole process? I don't have the answer. I just know across the league teams and the league are being affected by it. It's not just this game, it's all across the league. And so if they want the league to have the same reputation it's always had, they'll address the problem. Get the regular referees in here and let the games play themselves out.

''We already have controversy enough with the regular refs calling the plays.''

The problems continued Monday night when Peyton Manning led the Denver Broncos against the Atlanta Falcons.

The officials missed a call on Denver's first touchdown, ruling that Demaryius Thomas was pushed out of bounds. The replay clearly showed he got both feet down, and the call was reversed after a review.

The Falcons' first score also was reversed, this time with the officials ruling, with help from a replay, that Michael Turner actually landed short of the goal line. He wound up scoring on the next play.

In the second half, the officials got mixed up on where to place the ball after a defensive holding penalty on Champ Bailey. The crowd booed while the officials conferred, finally moving it a few yards forward to the proper spot.

It was those sort of delays that helped the game drag on for nearly 3 1/2 hours.

Despite the public outcry, the league backed the replacement crews, a collection of small-college officials who have been studying NFL rules since the summer.

''Officiating is never perfect. The current officials have made great strides and are performing admirably under unprecedented scrutiny and great pressure,'' NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in an email to The Associated Press. ''As we do every season, we will work to improve officiating and are confident that the game officials will show continued improvement.''

While some of the mistakes on Sunday were judgment calls - such as a pass interference penalty on Pittsburgh defensive back Ike Taylor in which he appeared to miss a New York Jets receiver - the more egregious errors appear to be misinterpretations of rules.

In St. Louis' 31-28 victory over Washington, Rams coach Jeff Fisher challenged a second-quarter fumble by running back Steven Jackson near the goal line and it was overturned. The Rams ended up kicking a field goal, which was the margin of victory.

The problem there was a coach is not allowed to challenge a play when a turnover is ruled on the field. It should've been an automatic 15-yard penalty on Fisher. Also, if Fisher threw the red challenge flag before the replay official initiated the review, then a review is not allowed and the Redskins would've kept the ball.

''I just think that they're just so inconsistent that it definitely has an effect on the games,'' Redskins linebacker London Fletcher said. ''You were hoping it would get better, but everybody is having to dealing with it.''

In the Cleveland-Cincinnati game, the clock continued to run after an incomplete pass by Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton in the second quarter. A total of 29 seconds ticked off, and the Browns ended the half with the ball at their 29. Perhaps an extra half-minute could've helped the drive. The Bengals won 34-27.

''Missed calls & bad calls are going to happen,'' Browns linebacker Scott Fujita, an NFLPA executive council member, wrote on Twitter. ''That's part of the deal & we can all live with it. But not knowing all the rules and major procedural errors (like allowing the clock to run after an incomplete pass) are completely unacceptable. Enough already.''

The Colts were incorrectly told at the end of their game that accepting an offside penalty would start the clock. So, quarterback Andrew Luck spiked the ball to stop it and set up Adam Vinatieri's 53-yard field goal that gave Indianapolis a 23-20 win over Minnesota.

Feisty play was a common theme around the league, as well. Players are seemingly getting away with being more physical, especially after the whistle. Officials appear reluctant to call personal fouls, opting instead for offsetting unsportsmanlike penalties that won't dissuade guys from going after each other as much.

The officials singled out an offender in the final minutes at St. Louis. Washington receiver Josh Morgan reacted after being tackled - and then shoved - by Cortland Finnegan, tossing the ball at the Rams cornerback and drawing an unsportsmanlike penalty. That turned a potential game-tying 47-yard field goal into a 62-yard attempt, which Billy Cundiff missed short.

''I've never been a part of a game that was that chippy,'' Washington's Hall said. ''Just so much extracurricular things going on after the play.''

Philadelphia receiver Jason Avant predicted replacement officials would have trouble keeping players in line.

''When you go into a game, you know what things you can do to get away with, with these refs that we have,'' Avant said a few days before the season opener. ''Guys are going to kind of cheat.''

As a result, Avant and many of his peers are concerned about safety.

''If they're going to press player safety,'' Buffalo center Eric Wood said, ''and they're going to have this multibillion-dollar industry, they should probably try to get something done to keep the product high.''

In 2001, the lockout lasted for one week of the regular season before a settlement was reached. This was the second weekend the replacements were used, and the NFL has drawn up a five-week schedule for using them if the labor dispute is not resolved.

In Week 1, there was one major error, when the officials awarded Seattle an extra timeout in the final minutes of a game at Arizona. The Cardinals held on to win and the crew's referee admitted the mistake.

''I don't know if there's a newfound appreciation or anything like that, but those guys have been doing it for a long time and they put a lot of time and hard work into going out there and doing this and seeing those games,'' Flacco said about the regular officials. ''It's not easy to be down there and be officiating games that are going full speed at this level, so that's my opinion of it.

''It's tough to just get thrown right in there and be perfect.''

---

AP Sports Writers Tom Withers in Cleveland, Joseph White in Ashburn, Va., John Wawrow in Buffalo, Will Graves in Pittsburgh, Michael Marot in Indianapolis and Paul Newberry in Atlanta contributed to this report.