Which Steelers Player is Most UnderValued and OverValued?

[Crash]

Completely agree. Arians biggest failure was not using the TEs like he promised he would when hired. Heath Miller should have 75+ catches every season that Ben is QB.

That will NEVER happen again if Coach Art continues to demand the running game.

[Crash]

The original topic was undervalued, not underrated...

Heath is not underrated, but he was undervalued in this offense in '10 and '11...

The facts suggest otherwise.

[steelz09]

overvalued = timmons

undervalued = Polamalu ... yup, because our defense is wayyy too dependent on him being in the game.

EDIT: Since Polamalu gets a lot of love, I'll switch my undervalued selection to Ryan Clark. Anytime your FS has more tackles than your ILB's, thats not a good sign. Additionally, he's been consistent over the years, smart, a good leader, allows Polamalu to roam, and not bad in coverage (lacks elite speed though). If Clark played against the Broncos, he basically guarantees us a victory.

[steelz09]

Health Miller isn't the type of TE that gets open enough to average 75+ catches per season. Miller is a good all around TE. He is no where near the receiving threat of some other TE's around the league. He doesn't posses the speed or athleticism to get open like several other TE's around the league.

Arians sent Heath and the other TE's out on pass patterns plenty. The WR's on this team were better options. As a result, Ben choose to throw the ball to the WR's. It doesn't matter how the OC designs plays for players to get open because the QB makes the decision where to throw the ball based on the defense. If you saw Miller open and waiting, how come Ben didn't throw him the ball?

I bet that Miller doesn't produce any more under Haley then he did under Whiz or Arians. That's because Miller's value isn't what some believe it is as a receiver. Miller's true value is the ability to play as a true TE and not as a WR playing TE.

You don't need to be Gronk, Graham, Vernon Davis, etc to run in a 5-10 yard zone and turn around. That *should* have been Heath's territory when opposing defenses were sending blitzes up the middle and vacating that area. Instead, Heath was in a max-protect scheme. That was a defensive response instead of taking and exposing what the defense was giving us. Typical of Arians.

In response to "If you saw Miller open and waiting, how come Ben didn't throw him the ball?"... For the same reason Ben doesn't throw to wide open RBs. He tries to force the big play a lot... just like his buddy Arians.

[BURGH86STEEL]

You don't need to be Gronk, Graham, Vernon Davis, etc to run in a 5-10 yard zone and turn around. That *should* have been Heath's territory when opposing defenses were sending blitzes up the middle and vacating that area. Instead, Heath was in a max-protect scheme. That was a defensive response instead of taking and exposing what the defense was giving us. Typical of Arians.

In response to "If you saw Miller open and waiting, how come Ben didn't throw him the ball?"... For the same reason Ben doesn't throw to wide open RBs. He tries to force the big play a lot... just like his buddy Arians.

Heath Miller ran plenty of routes in the 5-10 yard range. It was not as simple as Heath running into a 5 to 10 yard vacated area. There were times the needed to keep Heath in to block. It's really up to the QB to take what the defense gives. The QB's the guy that audibles and throws the football.

Although there were options for big plays at times designed in the offense, I don't believe the overall design of the offense was to force big plays. They took their shots down field. What OC and QB wouldn't with the speed on the outside? Offenses don't and can't live on 5 to 10 yard pass plays. I believe that big plays and threat of big plays are what allow offenses to have the most success.

Can't say that I saw Arians force a big play because I never witnessed him play QB.

[steelz09]

Heath Miller ran plenty of routes in the 5-10 yard range. It was not as simple as Heath running into a 5 to 10 yard vacated area. There were times the needed to keep Heath in to block. It's really up to the QB to take what the defense gives. The QB's the guy that audibles and throws the football.

Although there were options for big plays at times designed in the offense, I don't believe the overall design of the offense was to force big plays. They took their shots down field. What OC and QB wouldn't with the speed on the outside? Offenses don't and can't live on 5 to 10 yard pass plays. I believe that big plays and threat of big plays are what allow offenses to have the most success.

Can't say that I saw Arians force a big play because I never witnessed him play QB.

Really? The OC called plenty of plays that took WAY too long to develop. WRs had routes that took 5+ seconds to develop when everyone knew damn well our QB would be sacked or have a guy in his face in less than 5 seconds. Maybe common sense isn't so common but that sounds like trying to force a big play to me.

[NJ-STEELER]

overrated Timmons. 1 good year out of 5. outperformed every year by the 2nd round draft pick that year. took 2 years to even crack the starting line up.... yet still got a monster contract, i think a lot of fans give him the benefit of the doubt cause they dont want to even think about the thought of a 1st round bust (which i agree he is not)


underrated - wallace. some of the best numbers the league has ever seen from a WR in his first 3 years. coming from a 'raw' 3rd round draft pick, yet some want to pededle him off for an unproven late 1st round pick

tez allen. covered gronk when we played the pats and while he had 7 catches. none were deep and he made a pretty impressive tackle short of a first down when it appeared gronk would easily get it. I hope he wins the the spot opposite Ike

[papillon]

Overrated: Any long snapper, I refuse to believe that the position is difficult to master that you have to take up a roster spot for player that sees the field for 8-10 plays per game.

Underrated: Ben Roethlisberger, yea he gets pub, but he gets a lot of negative pub (or at least no media outlet fawns over him like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Newton, even RG III and he hasn't played a down yet) Without Ben the Steelers are still waiting on one for the thumb and they don't compete year in and year out to make the playoffs, many fans wion't know how good he is until he retires.

Runner ups:

Overrated: Suisham, no competition in camp (no real competition anyhow) for him at this moment, that makes him overrated.

Underrated: Ryan Clark, he just goes about his business and you don't' miss him until he isn't playing.

Pappy

[Slapstick]

The facts suggest otherwise.

Facts:

2009 = 6 TDs for Heath

2010 = 2 TDs

2011 = 2 TDs

[Steelerphile]

overrated Timmons. 1 good year out of 5. outperformed every year by the 2nd round draft pick that year. took 2 years to even crack the starting line up.... yet still got a monster contract, i think a lot of fans give him the benefit of the doubt cause they dont want to even think about the thought of a 1st round bust (which i agree he is not)


underrated - wallace. some of the best numbers the league has ever seen from a WR in his first 3 years. coming from a 'raw' 3rd round draft pick, yet some want to pededle him off for an unproven late 1st round pick

tez allen. covered gronk when we played the pats and while he had 7 catches. none were deep and he made a pretty impressive tackle short of a first down when it appeared gronk would easily get it. I hope he wins the the spot opposite Ike

There are some who will never be satisfied with Timmons, but let me try to spin his performance another direction. One good year of 5? Well at least you give him credit for 2010, which some people do not. He was 8th in the NFL in tackles that season. 3.0 sacks, which seems a little low, but the 7 tacklers above him had fewer. 11 passes defensed, which is very good for a LB. 2 picks that season, also good for a LB. He started out fast and seemed headed for the Pro Bowl but petered out a little. Still a very good season and he was 25 and that was what got him the good contract.

I might disagree that was his only good season, because I think he played well in a more reserve role in 2009, when he shared time with Foote. He had 7 sacks that year and 55 tackles. I think that was good season also, but just more in a reserve role. When you say it took him 2 years to crack the starting lineup, it implies it was due to him just being a poor player. But there are factors involved, he was a young player, drafted as a junior and needed to get a little stronger and he was also injured his first season, which took starting out of the equation and delayed his development. He also was not competing with free agents or other young players to start. He had Farrior and Foote ahead of him, who are both very good players, who the coaches couldn't summarily yank out when they were playing well.

I was not thrilled with Timmons play in 2011 myself, even though some might justify it by saying he was moving around positions on a week to week basis. I think that has some validity, but Timmons didn't adapt as well to moving around as I think he should have.

So the debate will continue to rage. I think he is many miles away from a bust. But I think some people do consider him to be. This is a key year for him because I think he should be situtated one place more so, and he should go back to at least his 2010 performance.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Really? The OC called plenty of plays that took WAY too long to develop. WRs had routes that took 5+ seconds to develop when everyone knew damn well our QB would be sacked or have a guy in his face in less than 5 seconds. Maybe common sense isn't so common but that sounds like trying to force a big play to me.

Plays that took too long to develop is difficult to prove from where you sit. Could it be that you thought plays took to long to develop because Ben held the ball too long sometimes, the WR's didn't do their jobs by winning one on one with the DB, or that Ben had a defender in his face 2 seconds after the ball was snapped? Nah, it was only because BA called plays that took too long to develop, gotcha. The reality is that it was usually more then one factor.

[NJ-STEELER]

There are some who will never be satisfied with Timmons, but let me try to spin his performance another direction. One good year of 5? Well at least you give him credit for 2010, which some people do not. He was 8th in the NFL in tackles that season. 3.0 sacks, which seems a little low, but the 7 tacklers above him had fewer. 11 passes defensed, which is very good for a LB. 2 picks that season, also good for a LB. He started out fast and seemed headed for the Pro Bowl but petered out a little. Still a very good season and he was 25 and that was what got him the good contract.

I might disagree that was his only good season, because I think he played well in a more reserve role in 2009, when he shared time with Foote. He had 7 sacks that year and 55 tackles. I think that was good season also, but just more in a reserve role. When you say it took him 2 years to crack the starting lineup, it implies it was due to him just being a poor player. But there are factors involved, he was a young player, drafted as a junior and needed to get a little stronger and he was also injured his first season, which took starting out of the equation and delayed his development. He also was not competing with free agents or other young players to start. He had Farrior and Foote ahead of him, who are both very good players, who the coaches couldn't summarily yank out when they were playing well.

I was not thrilled with Timmons play in 2011 myself, even though some might justify it by saying he was moving around positions on a week to week basis. I think that has some validity, but Timmons didn't adapt as well to moving around as I think he should have.

So the debate will continue to rage. I think he is many miles away from a bust. But I think some people do consider him to be. This is a key year for him because I think he should be situtated one place more so, and he should go back to at least his 2010 performance.

like mendy, he's far from a bust, but i feel he's not as productive as the FO wanted him to be.

after ben, he's the highest draft pick on the team and the highest we've had in years

[Oviedo]

like mendy, he's far from a bust, but i feel he's not as productive as the FO wanted him to be.

after ben, he's the highest draft pick on the team and the highest we've had in years

Timmons is also constrained by playing ILB in a defensive scheme that does not allow him to fully utilize his best skills.

[steelz09]

Plays that took too long to develop is difficult to prove from where you sit. Could it be that you thought plays took to long to develop because Ben held the ball too long sometimes, the WR's didn't do their jobs by winning one on one with the DB, or that Ben had a defender in his face 2 seconds after the ball was snapped? Nah, it was only because BA called plays that took too long to develop, gotcha. The reality is that it was usually more then one factor.

I've always disagreed w/ this of comment and I know you always try to make this argument. When I'm watching the game, I can see where a WR is running. To me, it's not very difficult regardless of watching the game on TV or in person. It might be hard for you, but it isn't for me. Consequently, I don't need to "prove" anything in this regard. I watched the long developing plays with my own 2 eyes.

[steelz09]

Timmons is also constrained by playing ILB in a defensive scheme that does not allow him to fully utilize his best skills.

That may be true but then we shouldn't have drafted him in the first place.