Tomlin not Rooney fired Bruce!

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  • ikestops85
    Hall of Famer
    • Jun 2008
    • 3724

    #76
    Originally posted by Oviedo
    Set the record book straight. Ovi has no dislike for LeBeau since I don't know him.

    What Ovi dislikes is a scheme where the DL is rendered ineffective by the stop the run first mentality in a league where more and more teams are passing on first down. I have always articulated my preference for an attcaking DL like the Giants. That has been consistent in my opinions. I don't like 8-10 yard buffers by DBs. I don't like taking 2-3 years to teach a young player how to play a defense or convert them from their natural positions. I don't like the lack of adjustments that happen on defense while we wait for the splash play that never occurs (see Denver game in 2011). This is fairly complete list of my dislikes so feel free to use them when criticizing me for accuracy.

    None of this has anything to do with a personal dislike of Lebeau anymore than people who don't know Arians hate him personally because of bubble screens, but the easy default is mean old Ovi does like the kindly old grandfather who is a legend. I'm sure I would love LeBeau if I knew him but I wouldn't think everything we do on defense is flawless.
    I think we all realize when we say that you don't like LeBeau we mean his coaching philosophy and not him personally. The same applies when people criticize Arians. I just have a hard time throwing criticism LeBeau's way when I can't name a team that has done better defensively than the Steelers under him. The Ratbirds would be the only team I would even mention in the discussion.
    As many on this site think ... The Rooney's suck, Colbert sucks, Tomlin sucks, the coaches suck, and the players suck.

    but Go Steelers!!!

    Comment

    • birtikidis
      Hall of Famer
      • May 2008
      • 4628

      #77
      Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure. That's why guys like JH and LW get the big money, because they get the pressure. Seriously we are almost always in the top third in the league in sacks but ppl complain that we don't get enough pressure. Our scoring defense is amazing. Our rush defense is ridiculous. We just haven't had a guy like Woodson on the team since he left.. and we won't because we always play late into the playoffs. Other teams are mimicing DL because it works, not bc the media pumps him up. What exactly would you change? REALLY CHANGE. Me? Nothing. I love seeing teams have to guess which LB is coming. I love seeing the VAST MAJORITY of running backs fall down shortly after getting the ball. Schematically I wouldn't change anything. I would like to see a true cover corner lining up. one that can pick the ball off.. of course I don't want to see us have a bad enough season that one is available when we pick. I truely enjoy winning. it's fun.

      Comment

      • RuthlessBurgher
        Legend
        • May 2008
        • 33208

        #78
        Originally posted by birtikidis
        Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure. That's why guys like JH and LW get the big money, because they get the pressure. Seriously we are almost always in the top third in the league in sacks but ppl complain that we don't get enough pressure. Our scoring defense is amazing. Our rush defense is ridiculous. We just haven't had a guy like Woodson on the team since he left.. and we won't because we always play late into the playoffs. Other teams are mimicing DL because it works, not bc the media pumps him up. What exactly would you change? REALLY CHANGE. Me? Nothing. I love seeing teams have to guess which LB is coming. I love seeing the VAST MAJORITY of running backs fall down shortly after getting the ball. Schematically I wouldn't change anything. I would like to see a true cover corner lining up. one that can pick the ball off.. of course I don't want to see us have a bad enough season that one is available when we pick. I truely enjoy winning. it's fun.
        Winning is fun.
        Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

        Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

        We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

        We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

        Comment

        • Crash
          Legend
          • Apr 2009
          • 5008

          #79
          Ovi, in most 3-4 schemes it's not on the DL to get the pressure.
          That was the excuse when the Steelers had bums like Kevin Henry and Nolan Harrison playing DE along side Joel Steed. Funny, that excuse didn't exist when Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner were smashing QBs left and right in playing with Steed in 1995. Sacks don't mean you get constant pressure. A sack could be just one play. The Steelers abused the Vikings and Fran Tarkenton in SB IX. And yet they didn't record any sacks. LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme with a lead has to change. His exchanging short gains for time defense doesn't work anymore.

          Comment

          • RuthlessBurgher
            Legend
            • May 2008
            • 33208

            #80
            Originally posted by Crash
            That was the excuse when the Steelers had bums like Kevin Henry and Nolan Harrison playing DE along side Joel Steed. Funny, that excuse didn't exist when Ray Seals and Brentson Buckner were smashing QBs left and right in playing with Steed in 1995. Sacks don't mean you get constant pressure. A sack could be just one play. The Steelers abused the Vikings and Fran Tarkenton in SB IX. And yet they didn't record any sacks. LeBeau's 4th quarter scheme with a lead has to change. His exchanging short gains for time defense doesn't work anymore.
            Keisel doesn't get a ton of sacks, but he generates his share of pressure.
            Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

            Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

            We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

            We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

            Comment

            • Eich
              Legend
              • Jul 2010
              • 7044

              #81
              Originally posted by Crash
              No your right, the Steelers 4th quarter defense is awesome. They haven't blown three 4th quarter leads to the Ravens since 2009. They didn't blow a 20-7 lead in XLIII. They didn't allow the Ravens in the first game in 2008 to tie the score either. Didn't let something called Curtis Painter go 80 yards in Indy last season also. Miami in 2010. Oakland, Cincy, Chicago, KC, in 2009, that didn't happen either. Need to stop ONE PLAY to beat the Jags in the playoffs? Nope, that didn't happen either. It's all a friggin mirage.

              No, you're right, the Steelers last 3 Super Bowl appearances have nothing to do with the defense. When they're ranked number 1, it's only because of the schedule and no credit should be given to them for championships. It's Ben doing everything. No other good teams ever have to come from behind in any games because their defenses always protect a 4th quarter lead.

              Comment

              • feltdizz
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 27532

                #82
                To be fair.... the jacksonville game had 3 TO's by Ben in the first half...

                and the D generated 2 TO's in the second half but most people credit Ben with bringing them back in the Jags game. Not sure why.

                Maybe our D is tired from playing outstanding for 3 quarters but recently the 4th qtr D has been ehhh... it would be nice to see our D step up on more 3rd and 8's. It SEEMS(probably less than it appears) like we rarely stop those in critical situations.
                Steelers 27
                Rats 16

                Comment

                • Crash
                  Legend
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 5008

                  #83
                  It's not recently. It's CONSTANT. The scheme changes in the 4th quarter. LeBeau tries to swap short gains for time, it doesn't work. It rarely works. It didn't work when he was in Cincy in the Super Bowl. It didn't work in 2007, it didn't work in 2008, or in 2009.

                  The defense isn't tired. The defense isn't put in postion to succeed because of LeBeau.

                  It's not age, it's not injuries, it's SCHEME!

                  Comment

                  • Eich
                    Legend
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 7044

                    #84
                    Originally posted by Crash
                    It's not recently. It's CONSTANT. The scheme changes in the 4th quarter. LeBeau tries to swap short gains for time, it doesn't work. It rarely works. It didn't work when he was in Cincy in the Super Bowl. It didn't work in 2007, it didn't work in 2008, or in 2009.

                    The defense isn't tired. The defense isn't put in postion to succeed because of LeBeau.

                    It's not age, it's not injuries, it's SCHEME!

                    SOMETIMES it's scheme. I think scheme was mostly responsible for the debacle in Denver last playoffs, though it didn't help that Clark was out and others left with injury.

                    But offenses change in the 4th quarter when they're behind. They become agressive with the pass and more difficult to defend. How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??? Do their Defensive schemes all of the sudden get stupid in the 4th so that WE can come from behind????

                    Comment

                    • Oviedo
                      Legend
                      • May 2008
                      • 23824

                      #85
                      Originally posted by Eich
                      SOMETIMES it's scheme. I think scheme was mostly responsible for the debacle in Denver last playoffs, though it didn't help that Clark was out and others left with injury.

                      But offenses change in the 4th quarter when they're behind. They become agressive with the pass and more difficult to defend. How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??? Do their Defensive schemes all of the sudden get stupid in the 4th so that WE can come from behind????
                      No scheme should be dependent on one player or it isn't a very good scheme. Just like you defense should not be at risk because you can't replace a big, overweight nose tackle. Schemes should be flexible and adaptable to the talent you have and the opponent you play. It may be harder to be flexible when you have to "train" a player for 2+ years to convert to a new position that they might not master but that is a choice you make.
                      "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                      Comment

                      • Crash
                        Legend
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 5008

                        #86
                        How do you think WE come from behind against opposing Defenses??


                        Simple, we get the worthless backup tight ends (Be it Speath or Johnson) off the field, and use our 3 or 4 wides.

                        The Steelers offense would dominate, if they just would go 3 wide and a TE as their base offense and quit the BS multiple TE sets that clog up the LOS.

                        Comment

                        • RuthlessBurgher
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 33208

                          #87
                          Based on his historic ability to adapt his offensive scheme to the talents of his players (dominant passing game in Arizona with Warner/Fitz/Bolden and dominant running game in K.C. with Jamaal Charles & Thomas Jones), I think Haley is smart enough to realize that we are more dangerous with Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, and Redman (or Mendenhall when healthy) than anything involving David Johnson.
                          Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                          Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                          We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                          We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                          Comment

                          • Crash
                            Legend
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 5008

                            #88
                            Arians knew that too. But Art II wants 70s football.

                            Comment

                            • Oviedo
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 23824

                              #89
                              Originally posted by RuthlessBurgher
                              Based on his historic ability to adapt his offensive scheme to the talents of his players (dominant passing game in Arizona with Warner/Fitz/Bolden and dominant running game in K.C. with Jamaal Charles & Thomas Jones), I think Haley is smart enough to realize that we are more dangerous with Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, and Redman (or Mendenhall when healthy) than anything involving David Johnson.
                              David Johnson is the bane of my existence as a fan. Everytime I see him on the field I want to puke.
                              "My team, may they always be right, but right or wrong...MY TEAM!"

                              Comment

                              • RuthlessBurgher
                                Legend
                                • May 2008
                                • 33208

                                #90
                                Originally posted by Crash
                                Arians knew that too. But Art II wants 70s football.
                                Give it up...does the difference between "run more effectively" and "run more frequently" really need to be explained again?
                                Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

                                Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

                                We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

                                We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

                                Comment

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