Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtner

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

[quote=sd steel]

Fichtner = Arians Lite

Lets get some new blood.

Really?

Mularkey = Gilbride Lite?

Gilbride's problem wasn't being unable to reign in his QB and dictate the offense he wanted executed. Glibride was too smart for our QB.[/quote:29u9uod5]

Gilbride's problem was that he instituted an offense that was depending on the QB and receivers to read the D and react on the fly depending on what they read. Obviously, each of the players had to be reading exactly the same thing. It was the kind of O that requires veteran players with high football IQ in order to run.

The problem was that in 1999, his first year, he was working with:

Kordelll Stewart - 5th year
Troy Edwards - rookie
Hines Ward - 2nd year

and the next year brought in Plaxico Burress - rookie

Not the experience needed to execute his offense.

[ikestops85]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

I think its silly to think Fichtner would be just like BA. Besides, I don't think Arians scheme was the problem. It was his play-calling that was the issue.

If Fich would call plays that takes advantage of the talent and recognize where we lack talent on the team it would be an immense improvement.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

I think its silly to think Fichtner would be just like BA. Besides, I don't think Arians scheme was the problem. It was his play-calling that was the issue.

If Fich would call plays that takes advantage of the talent and recognize where we lack talent on the team it would be an immense improvement.

The hits on Ben were the main problem IMO. I'm not confident Ben will take less hits with Fitch at OC.

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

[quote=steeler_fan_in_t.o.][quote="sd steel":9nbxg71q]

Fichtner = Arians Lite

Lets get some new blood.

Really?

Mularkey = Gilbride Lite?

Gilbride's problem wasn't being unable to reign in his QB and dictate the offense he wanted executed. Glibride was too smart for our QB.[/quote:9nbxg71q]

Gilbride's problem was that he instituted an offense that was depending on the QB and receivers to read the D and react on the fly depending on what they read. Obviously, each of the players had to be reading exactly the same thing. It was the kind of O that requires veteran players with high football IQ in order to run.

The problem was that in 1999, his first year, he was working with:

Kordelll Stewart - 5th year
Troy Edwards - rookie
Hines Ward - 2nd year

and the next year brought in Plaxico Burress - rookie

Not the experience needed to execute his offense.[/quote:9nbxg71q]

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

The reason why I don't want Fich is because I think he will end up in the same position as Arians, basically keeping Ben happy and allowing him to continue playing with the sandlot approach before the play breaks down.

I like Ben using his skills to create on the fly, but we need someone who owes his job to Rooney or Tomlin, not someone who owes his job to Ben. In order for Ben to improve he needs to abide by the rules of a system and take what the defense is giving him before he breaks the pocket and turns it into backyard football. Arians let Ben be Ben in my opinion, and although that results in some great highlight plays it doesn't result in consistency, which this offense needs to be the top team in the league year in and year out. I don't have anything against Fich, but I think new blood will force Ben to improve.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

The reason why I don't want Fich is because I think he will end up in the same position as Arians, basically keeping Ben happy and allowing him to continue playing with the sandlot approach before the play breaks down.

I like Ben using his skills to create on the fly, but we need someone who owes his job to Rooney or Tomlin, not someone who owes his job to Ben. In order for Ben to improve he needs to abide by the rules of a system and take what the defense is giving him before he breaks the pocket and turns it into backyard football. Arians let Ben be Ben in my opinion, and although that results in some great highlight plays it doesn't result in consistency, which this offense needs to be the top team in the league year in and year out. I don't have anything against Fich, but I think new blood will force Ben to improve.

[Slapstick]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

The reason why I don't want Fich is because I think he will end up in the same position as Arians, basically keeping Ben happy and allowing him to continue playing with the sandlot approach before the play breaks down.

I like Ben using his skills to create on the fly, but we need someone who owes his job to Rooney or Tomlin, not someone who owes his job to Ben. In order for Ben to improve he needs to abide by the rules of a system and take what the defense is giving him before he breaks the pocket and turns it into backyard football. Arians let Ben be Ben in my opinion, and although that results in some great highlight plays it doesn't result in consistency, which this offense needs to be the top team in the league year in and year out. I don't have anything against Fich, but I think new blood will force Ben to improve.

Any OC who comes to the Steelers will have to work with Ben and keep him happy...it's just a fact of life...

Should it be that way? Perhaps not...but, it is...

Kevin Gilbride has proven himself to be a very, very good OC...who lasted longer in Pittsburgh: Gilbride or Kordell?

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

The reason why I don't want Fich is because I think he will end up in the same position as Arians, basically keeping Ben happy and allowing him to continue playing with the sandlot approach before the play breaks down.

I like Ben using his skills to create on the fly, but we need someone who owes his job to Rooney or Tomlin, not someone who owes his job to Ben. In order for Ben to improve he needs to abide by the rules of a system and take what the defense is giving him before he breaks the pocket and turns it into backyard football. Arians let Ben be Ben in my opinion, and although that results in some great highlight plays it doesn't result in consistency, which this offense needs to be the top team in the league year in and year out. I don't have anything against Fich, but I think new blood will force Ben to improve.

Any OC who comes to the Steelers will have to work with Ben and keep him happy...it's just a fact of life...

Should it be that way? Perhaps not...but, it is...

Kevin Gilbride has proven himself to be a very, very good OC...who lasted longer in Pittsburgh: Gilbride or Kordell?

Fich is too close to Ben in my opinion to make Ben change his style of play to fit a system. Ben needs a boss not a buddy.

I never said anything negative about Gilbride, he tried to have Kordell execute an offense that was over his head. It was just the wrong fit at the time. Kordell needed someone to build and offense around his strengths.

Gilbride would probably be good for Ben, and Arians probably would have been good for Kordell. Kordell needed an ally, Ben needs a mentor/coach.

[Slapstick]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fich is too close to Ben in my opinion to make Ben change his style of play to fit a system. Ben needs a boss not a buddy.

I never said anything negative about Gilbride, he tried to have Kordell execute an offense that was over his head. It was just the wrong fit at the time. Kordell needed someone to build and offense around his strengths.

Gilbride would probably be good for Ben, and Arians probably would have been good for Kordell. Kordell needed an ally, Ben needs a mentor/coach.

The complaints about Ben center around his mechanics and decision making (ie. holding on to the ball too long)...the complaints about Arians centered on predictable and inefficient play calling...

I want the Steelers to hire an OC to be a good play caller, first and foremost, which Fichtner has shown the ability to do in his other positions...

Perhaps Ben needs to have a different QB coach to help him work on his decision making and mechanics...the system is already designed around Ben...the offense works and it works well, for the most part...

Kordell didn't need an ally...he needed someone who didn't try to jam a square peg into a round hole...

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fich is too close to Ben in my opinion to make Ben change his style of play to fit a system. Ben needs a boss not a buddy.

I never said anything negative about Gilbride, he tried to have Kordell execute an offense that was over his head. It was just the wrong fit at the time. Kordell needed someone to build and offense around his strengths.

Gilbride would probably be good for Ben, and Arians probably would have been good for Kordell. Kordell needed an ally, Ben needs a mentor/coach.

The complaints about Ben center around his mechanics and decision making (ie. holding on to the ball too long)...the complaints about Arians centered on predictable and inefficient play calling...

I want the Steelers to hire an OC to be a good play caller, first and foremost, which Fichtner has shown the ability to do in his other positions...

Perhaps Ben needs to have a different QB coach to help him work on his decision making and mechanics...the system is already designed around Ben...the offense works and it works well, for the most part...

Kordell didn't need an ally...he needed someone who didn't try to jam a square peg into a round hole...

Whose complaints? My complaints regarding Ben is that he doesn't focus on taking advantage of what's given him by the defense, and he tries to make every play the big play. We need to focus on timing routes to the outside to open up the middle and use quick hitting slant patterns to get first downs. Ben wants to take 7 step drops and hit 30 yard passes on every play, and Arians called those plays because that is what Ben wanted. Ben holding the ball too long is due to the fact that receivers aren't making their breaks until 15 yards down field. Arians wasn't calling plays for the Steelers, he was calling plays for Ben.

And you obviously didn't read what I wrote about why Kordell was unsuccessful with Gilbride. Just because you read "square peg, round hole" somewhere doesn't mean you have to write it everytime, but basically I said as much. Kordell needed someone to call plays that fit him, Gilbride forced his system to a guy who couldn't execute it. An ally would have worked with Kordell to build a system that Kordell would be successful in.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fitch isn't that guy or Ben would be doing all those things while Fitch was QB coach. That being said... I don't think anyone is going to change how Ben throws the football once the ball is snapped. He prefers contact.... and will wait it out regardless of the play call when he has his mind made up on going deep.

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fitch isn't that guy or Ben would be doing all those things while Fitch was QB coach. That being said... I don't think anyone is going to change how Ben throws the football once the ball is snapped. He prefers contact.... and will wait it out regardless of the play call when he has his mind made up on going deep.

You might be right regarding Ben, but I think if there is no deep option and an authority figure (coach) is having Ben consistently focus on reading the defense and hitting routes with a higher probability of success and that is the daily focus of our game plans he will move more in that direction.

Don't get me wrong, because I don't want to handcuff Ben, but I want to make him more consistent so we can sustain drives with play calling not sandlot football tactics.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fitch isn't that guy or Ben would be doing all those things while Fitch was QB coach. That being said... I don't think anyone is going to change how Ben throws the football once the ball is snapped. He prefers contact.... and will wait it out regardless of the play call when he has his mind made up on going deep.

You might be right regarding Ben, but I think if there is no deep option and an authority figure (coach) is having Ben consistently focus on reading the defense and hitting routes with a higher probability of success and that is the daily focus of our game plans he will move more in that direction.

Don't get me wrong, because I don't want to handcuff Ben, but I want to make him more consistent so we can sustain drives with play calling not sandlot football tactics.

but the deep option forces the D to double Wallace... well, it used to but after watching the Pro bowl I think defenders have figured out all you have to do is touch Wallace and he is easily bumped off his route.

[sd steel]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

Fitch isn't that guy or Ben would be doing all those things while Fitch was QB coach. That being said... I don't think anyone is going to change how Ben throws the football once the ball is snapped. He prefers contact.... and will wait it out regardless of the play call when he has his mind made up on going deep.

You might be right regarding Ben, but I think if there is no deep option and an authority figure (coach) is having Ben consistently focus on reading the defense and hitting routes with a higher probability of success and that is the daily focus of our game plans he will move more in that direction.

Don't get me wrong, because I don't want to handcuff Ben, but I want to make him more consistent so we can sustain drives with play calling not sandlot football tactics.

but the deep option forces the D to double Wallace... well, it used to but after watching the Pro bowl I think defenders have figured out all you have to do is touch Wallace and he is easily bumped off his route.

I'm not saying not to run the deep route to spread the defense, but on certain plays the route should be run only as a decoy. It should not be in the QB's head that the route is even being run aside from knowing that a corner and a safety will be taken out of the picture.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Steelers OC position down to Clements, Haley and Fichtne

[quote=sd steel]

Fitch isn't that guy or Ben would be doing all those things while Fitch was QB coach. That being said... I don't think anyone is going to change how Ben throws the football once the ball is snapped. He prefers contact.... and will wait it out regardless of the play call when he has his mind made up on going deep.

You might be right regarding Ben, but I think if there is no deep option and an authority figure (coach) is having Ben consistently focus on reading the defense and hitting routes with a higher probability of success and that is the daily focus of our game plans he will move more in that direction.

Don't get me wrong, because I don't want to handcuff Ben, but I want to make him more consistent so we can sustain drives with play calling not sandlot football tactics.

but the deep option forces the D to double Wallace... well, it used to but after watching the Pro bowl I think defenders have figured out all you have to do is touch Wallace and he is easily bumped off his route.

I'm not saying not to run the deep route to spread the defense, but on certain plays the route should be run only as a decoy. It should not be in the QB's head that the route is even being run aside from knowing that a corner and a safety will be taken out of the picture.[/quote:3v8ps9iy]

Using a fly pattern as a decoy with Ben is analagous to offering Cookie Monster a plate of carrots, celery, and cucumbers, and telling him to ignore that fresh batch of Toll House Chocolate Chip Cookies.