Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

[feltdizz]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

can the timmons apologists at least admit he has not lived up to his new contract?

like others have said, I'm sick of hearing about his potential.

the dude plays on roller skates and takes himself out of way too many plays. All he does is chase and gets beaten routinely by other teams TE's.

He hasn't lived up to his contract... yet.

[phillyesq]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

For a guy that is supposed to be an asset in coverage, he routinely gets toasted by opposing TEs.

Although he made a few plays in the run game, Timmons has probably been the biggest disappointment on the defense.

Timmons is third on the team in tackles and unlike Harrison and Woodley he can least be there every game. You can't complain unless you know what he is being asked to do. I've seen him covering TEs much this season probably because Farrior can't anymore and I don't recall him being toasted on a regular basis. Most of the TEs that are being successful are going against our DBs.

He is just a handful of tackles ahead of Farrior, who rotates with Foote. Further, he plays ILB. You'd have a hard time finding an ILB that isn't among the team leaders in tackles.

Timmons had coverage on Vernon Davis on the TD. Against the Browns, Timmons got beat by Evan Moore, setting up the Browns at the goalline.

Timmons had a few decent stretches in five seasons with the Steelers, but has never lived up to his potential. His most effectieve season was when he rotated with Larry Foote, letting Foote do the dirty work against the run, and then coming in fresh and playing in passing situations.

Bottom line, Timmons is being paid to be a playmaker this year, and he has not made any splash plays. I don't know his specific assignment on each play, but I'm pretty sure that he can't blame his assignments on the fact that he has no sacks this year. Woodley and Harrison have both missed games, yet both have made more impact plays then Timmons.

[SteelCrazy]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

The guy is a 5 year veteran. There is no more potential to be had from him. He is what he is....

3rd leading tackler behind Troy (83), Ryan, (91), with 76......0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 4 pd, and 1 interception. He over runs more plays then he makes and has little strength, so he needs to drop any extra weight. OLB is not a strong position for him and at ILB he isnt much better.

Jason Worilds looks like money 1 outta 3 games, so I'm not convinced he is the answer either at OLB.

[phillyesq]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

can the timmons apologists at least admit he has not lived up to his new contract?

like others have said, I'm sick of hearing about his potential.

the dude plays on roller skates and takes himself out of way too many plays. All he does is chase and gets beaten routinely by other teams TE's.

He hasn't lived up to his contract... yet.

Nor has he lived up to his draft status. Yet.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

The guy has always been "expectations" and "potential". I'm really tired of the love fest that people have with Timmons. Look at it objectively and he doesn't deserve all the credit he gets. I would say he's average.. big deal.

I don't know the terms of his contract but I hope it's not near top 10-15 LB money.

I know one thing, you put him or any LB one on one with Vernon Davis and you can expect them to fail.

[Lebsteel]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!

Yea, Posluszny has been such a difference maker in Buffalo and now Jacksonville.

The only thing I saw from him last Thursday was mostly getting run over or chasing after the ball carrier after they got past the LOS.

Hey, you can't fault Poz, maybe he is simply doing what he was asked to do.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

On 2 consectuve plays he blitzed and Gore stoned him on both.

i dont think he's had a sack yet in his career where he has to beat a RB, TE, OL picking him up.

his 1 on 1 rush skills are putrid

only times he's had sacks IIRC are when he comes free

[steelz09]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Timmons is currently tied with many others for 112th in the league in sacks and tied for 92 in the league for Force Fumbles (FF)

... but he's is a future HOFer if the credentials are "potential" splash plays.

[TallyStiller]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Point is, Timmons was supposed to be the linebacker version of Vernon Davis, a big guy who could run to the point where he could stay with people in coverage. That's the type of linebacker that's hard to find, and crucial to have in today's NFL.

Frankly, when I look at Paul Posluszny, I see that big, slow, plodding run stuffer that is dime a dozen at the ILB position... which is what Timmons is looking and playing like right now. Not a BAD player... but not a DIFFERENCE MAKER. Kind of a surer tackling version of Larry Foote - great if you got him in the 4th round, not so much if he was the 15th overall pick.

So, to my question... does he reacquire some speed if he loses some of the bulk? I think it was put well by one of the posters here who said Timmons was great a few years back as a part time player rotating with Foote. He probably HAD to add the bulk in order to stay on the field full time, but I fear he's compromised his effectiveness in doing so. I think what we see is what we get going forward.

[williar]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Add me to the, disappointed in Timmons, list. I was truly suprised he got that contract. To think Patrick Willis and Darelle Revis was in sniffing distance during that draft. I think we might have been better off drafting Leon Hall, who went #16.

[Chadman]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Well, you can officially put Chadman in the "Timmons-Apologists" list.

Here's the thing- name 1, yes, just 1, Steeler front 7 defender that has played up to last years standard.

In fact, Chadman can think of only 2 players on Defense that are noticably better than last year on the roster- Willie Gay & Keenan Lewis- and that may be more to do with how bad they were last year than anything else.

The whole Defense has been a disappointment. Not sure why- but generally when things don't work out "Splash-wise" it's due to being beaten in the non-Splash plays. Line Of Scrimmage type stuff. You know- the spot where the Steelers are converting from OLD to YOUNG. Keisel, Hampton & Smith making way for Hood, Heyward & possibly McLendon. The new guys don't dominate the way the old guys used to- and at this point in their careers, that is no surprise. Time will tell if Hood & Heyward ever achieve the level of play Smith & Keisel reached- signs look good- but their ability to draw double blockers isn't as good as the old guard over the last 5 years. This leaves more blockers free for the likes of Timmons, Woodley, Farrior & Harrison. So their drop-off is likely a result of that.

Has Timmons played as well as last year? No, not at all. Last year he really emerged- have we all forgotten his level of play last year? Chadman sees everyone saying his best year was the year he rotated with Foote- find that hard to believe- last season he was very strong.

Farrior is a shadow of his former self. He no longer commands the blocking he used to. Harrison & Woodley have missed significant playing time, and their replacements have been kids- Worilds & Carter- who at this point in their careers won't draw the extra blocker.

So the fact that Timmons makes less 'splash plays' is not surprising. Disappointing? Sure. It's a pity he can't drag the rest of the Defense along with him & make them great. It's a pity his level of play doesn't elevate the rest of the performances of his team mates. That said- his skill set is really designed to feed off the guys around him- as noted, he's not overly strong & really excels in space- not in traffic. So if the other 10 guys aren't playing at the level required, yes, Timmons will get shown up.

Chadman has warned of this happening for a couple of years- the Steelers Defense is going to suffer a drop-off soon, simply because we are about to experience 'the transition' of old to new- the FO have allowed KEY players to play on past their primes with little to no up-and-coming youth to replace them in place. Hood & Heyward are probably 2 years too late. Where's the dominant NT to replace Hampton? Where's the young ILB to replace Farrior? Where's the up & coming FS to replace Ryan Clark?

What we are currently seeing is young guys that are not quite up to DOMINATING being asked to pick up the slack of former great players who are now struggling to COMPETE. Effectively, this means we have taken the top off the EXCELLENCE of the Steelers Defense, and are left with a Defense that, while competitive, doesn't play at an ELITE level- more an adequate level- until the younger guys are at the top of their game. Hence the reason we see the Steelers play well for large chunks of the game, but come up short when they need to really stand up. They simply don't have that 'next level' yet, in some cases, or any more in others.

So while it's easy to say Timmons isn't playing up to his contract, perhaps we should look at the reasons for it, not just giggle with glee & tout the "I told you so" lines that have been harboured ever since he was 'drafted too high' by a lot of this board's ideals.

[fordfixer]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

where has Lawrence Timmons has been?

Counting his money

[Lebsteel]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

SEASON TEAM GP TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2007 BUF 3 26 17 9 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2008 BUF 16 110 87 23 0.0 1 1 0 1 9 9 9 0 6 3 8 0
2009 BUF 12 110 87 23 1.0 3 0 0 3 20 7 17 0 4 5 10 0
2010 BUF 14 151 103 48 2.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 13 0
2011 JAC 14 110 64 46 2.0 1 0 0 2 2 1 2 0 8 5 27 0
Career 59 507 358 149 5.0 5 1 0 6 31 5 17 0 22 17 58 0


SEASON TEAM GP TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2007 PIT 16 13 11 2 0.0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 0
2008 PIT 16 65 43 22 5.0 1 1 0 1 89 89 89 0 3 2 6 0
2009 PIT 14 78 56 22 7.0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 14 0
2010 PIT 16 135 96 39 3.0 2 2 0 2 5 3 5 0 9 8 19 0
2011 PIT 13 70 48 22 0.0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 4 2 7 0
Career 75 361 254 107 15.0 7 5 0 4 94 24 89 0 20 17 50 0

Well at least Timmons has played in 16 more games than Posluszny over their five-year careers. Yea, that's it, we picked him at 15 because he is durable! Oh, well, dead horse beaten. Hopefully the next five years, the ones where he is being paid big money, will be better than the first five.

[Chadman]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Leb- no offence, but when they play the same roles in the same formations, then compare them.

A comparison to Patrick Willis is better-530 solo tackles, 158 assists for 688 combined, 17 sacks, 40 PD's, 5 ints, 12 FF.

However, even then, Willis is more the 49ers James Farrior...

[feltdizz]

Re: Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?

Well, you can officially put Chadman in the "Timmons-Apologists" list.

Here's the thing- name 1, yes, just 1, Steeler front 7 defender that has played up to last years standard.

In fact, Chadman can think of only 2 players on Defense that are noticably better than last year on the roster- Willie Gay & Keenan Lewis- and that may be more to do with how bad they were last year than anything else.

The whole Defense has been a disappointment. Not sure why- but generally when things don't work out "Splash-wise" it's due to being beaten in the non-Splash plays. Line Of Scrimmage type stuff. You know- the spot where the Steelers are converting from OLD to YOUNG. Keisel, Hampton & Smith making way for Hood, Heyward & possibly McLendon. The new guys don't dominate the way the old guys used to- and at this point in their careers, that is no surprise. Time will tell if Hood & Heyward ever achieve the level of play Smith & Keisel reached- signs look good- but their ability to draw double blockers isn't as good as the old guard over the last 5 years. This leaves more blockers free for the likes of Timmons, Woodley, Farrior & Harrison. So their drop-off is likely a result of that.

Has Timmons played as well as last year? No, not at all. Last year he really emerged- have we all forgotten his level of play last year? Chadman sees everyone saying his best year was the year he rotated with Foote- find that hard to believe- last season he was very strong.

Farrior is a shadow of his former self. He no longer commands the blocking he used to. Harrison & Woodley have missed significant playing time, and their replacements have been kids- Worilds & Carter- who at this point in their careers won't draw the extra blocker.

So the fact that Timmons makes less 'splash plays' is not surprising. Disappointing? Sure. It's a pity he can't drag the rest of the Defense along with him & make them great. It's a pity his level of play doesn't elevate the rest of the performances of his team mates. That said- his skill set is really designed to feed off the guys around him- as noted, he's not overly strong & really excels in space- not in traffic. So if the other 10 guys aren't playing at the level required, yes, Timmons will get shown up.

Chadman has warned of this happening for a couple of years- the Steelers Defense is going to suffer a drop-off soon, simply because we are about to experience 'the transition' of old to new- the FO have allowed KEY players to play on past their primes with little to no up-and-coming youth to replace them in place. Hood & Heyward are probably 2 years too late. Where's the dominant NT to replace Hampton? Where's the young ILB to replace Farrior? Where's the up & coming FS to replace Ryan Clark?

What we are currently seeing is young guys that are not quite up to DOMINATING being asked to pick up the slack of former great players who are now struggling to COMPETE. Effectively, this means we have taken the top off the EXCELLENCE of the Steelers Defense, and are left with a Defense that, while competitive, doesn't play at an ELITE level- more an adequate level- until the younger guys are at the top of their game. Hence the reason we see the Steelers play well for large chunks of the game, but come up short when they need to really stand up. They simply don't have that 'next level' yet, in some cases, or any more in others.

So while it's easy to say Timmons isn't playing up to his contract, perhaps we should look at the reasons for it, not just giggle with glee & tout the "I told you so" lines that have been harboured ever since he was 'drafted too high' by a lot of this board's ideals.

excellent post.