I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

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  • Dee Dub
    Hall of Famer
    • Jan 2010
    • 4652

    #16
    Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

    [quote=Captain Lemming][quote="Dee Dub"nphyb6s][quote="Captain Lemming"nphyb6s][quote="Dee Dub"nphyb6s]
    Originally posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":pnphyb6s
    i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

    guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

    you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.
    OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

    Cool.[/quotenphyb6s]

    True. But why can't you admit that similarly, in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Ben played poorly too.

    I agree with you Mendenhall's fault on the fumble.

    But using your "its everybody's fault but Ben" logic the fumble would be the lines fault for allowing Ngata to penetrate so quickly.[/quotenphyb6s]

    Maui where did I ever say Ben didnt play well?? Saying that the majority of yesterdays loss falls on the Steelers defense isnt saying that Ben played well.

    I think maybe you should re-read what I have written??

    Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.[/quotenphyb6s]

    Correct, and thank you for clarifying, but true "perspective" knows that Ben's fumble contributed directly to the 21-7.....oh wait, you addressed that fumble. YOU BLAMED IT ON THE LINE!

    I said the above before EVEN KNOWING that YOU LITERALLY USED the "lines fault for the fumble" logic to defend Ben that I describe above.

    Originally posted by Dee Dub in reference to Ben's fumble in another thread
    I dont know how you can call someone careless with the football when they are looking away (down field), for a receiver to get open and then gets hit from the side by one of the games best defensive players. Dont you think the O-line is more responsible for that turn over than Ben is?
    Nearly all facets of the game contributed to the loss. No need to shield anyone from blame.[/quotenphyb6s]

    I dont think I am shielding anyone for their bad play. But I see a bigger picture. I stand by my statement that Ben's fumble should be more on the O-line for giving up the sack/hit that resulted in that fumble. It wasnt like Ben was running down the field with the football. He was in the pocketing looking down the field.

    And I agree....all facets of the game contributed to the loss yesterday.
    Steelers 2015 Draft???....Go Freak! As in....

    1-Bernardrick McKinney MLB Mississippi State 6 ft 5 250 4.5 40 yard dash

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    • NorCal-Steeler
      Backup
      • May 2008
      • 255

      #17
      Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

      Mendy blows period..... the fault of the fumble is his for removing eyes off the ball. That being said it was still going to get blown up and probably fumbled either way. My problem with Mendy is not just his fumbles but his stopping of momentum to try and cut directions and loseing yards when he should just fall forward for no gain or short gain. Seems to me he has many carries for loss of yards before he gets a good one. His spin move makes me sick every time i see the ball out away from body. When his contract is up i will be suprised if they resign him.
      http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...Steeler/nc.jpg

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      • steelblood
        Hall of Famer
        • May 2008
        • 4166

        #18
        Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

        [quote=Dee Dub]
        Originally posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":3flh4osy
        i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

        guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

        you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.
        OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

        Cool.[/quote:3flh4osy]

        And, on both of those plays Legursky and D. Johnson missed assignments or whiffed on blocks.

        Do not go out in a thunderstorm with Mendenhall, Johnson, and Legursky.
        Even if Bill Belichick was getting an atomic wedgie, his face would look exactly the same.

        Comment

        • Steelerphile
          Pro Bowler
          • Dec 2008
          • 1198

          #19
          Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

          Mendenhall does not have a fumbling problem. That is a complete myth. He fumbled twice in 2010 and three times in 2009. That is about the lowest fumble per carry average in the NFL.

          Why would he not look up if a huge man is about 2 steps away and running at a high rate of speed and having bad intentions?

          It's ridiculous to blame Mendenhall for that fumble. Legursky completely neglected to block Ngata, who was basically right in front of him.

          Comment

          • NWNewell
            Backup
            • Sep 2009
            • 384

            #20
            Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

            Originally posted by Dee Dub
            and I gotta tell you....his eyes were never on the the ball. He is fixed on Ngata all the way. As a result he does not take the hand off cleanly. CBS shows a replay from the defensive side of the play and you can clearly see Mendy's eyes fixed on Ngata the whole time. Yes I know he's about to get hit hard by a beast of a man but he has got to stop fumbling the ball just because he gets hit hard. This, like the one on the Super Bowl, is all on him.
            His eyes should NEVER be on the ball. It is the QB's job to put the ball in the gut where it needs to be and the RB secures the ball by feel. The whole time the RB is suppose to be reading the blocking and looking for the seem.

            Watch any RB's eyes at the take the hand off. They never look it in. They are not taught to.

            Ben did not put the ball where it need to be. The line gave Mendenhall not time to recover and secure the ball. Perhaps he should have been able to recover and secure the ball, but I'd argue that Mendenhall is the least to fault for that TO. To me, it's on Ben first and foremost.

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            • DukieBoy
              Hall of Famer
              • May 2008
              • 3488

              #21
              Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

              Originally posted by Steelerphile
              Mendenhall does not have a fumbling problem. That is a complete myth. He fumbled twice in 2010 and three times in 2009. That is about the lowest fumble per carry average in the NFL.

              Why would he not look up if a huge man is about 2 steps away and running at a high rate of speed and having bad intentions?

              It's ridiculous to blame Mendenhall for that fumble. Legursky completely neglected to block Ngata, who was basically right in front of him.

              X2





              Comment

              • DukieBoy
                Hall of Famer
                • May 2008
                • 3488

                #22
                Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                Originally posted by NWNewell
                Originally posted by Dee Dub
                and I gotta tell you....his eyes were never on the the ball. He is fixed on Ngata all the way. As a result he does not take the hand off cleanly. CBS shows a replay from the defensive side of the play and you can clearly see Mendy's eyes fixed on Ngata the whole time. Yes I know he's about to get hit hard by a beast of a man but he has got to stop fumbling the ball just because he gets hit hard. This, like the one on the Super Bowl, is all on him.
                His eyes should NEVER be on the ball. It is the QB's job to put the ball in the gut where it needs to be and the RB secures the ball by feel. The whole time the RB is suppose to be reading the blocking and looking for the seem.

                Watch any RB's eyes at the take the hand off. They never look it in. They are not taught to.

                Ben did not put the ball where it need to be. The line gave Mendenhall not time to recover and secure the ball. Perhaps he should have been able to recover and secure the ball, but I'd argue that Mendenhall is the least to fault for that TO. To me, it's on Ben first and foremost.
                Truth.





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                • feltdizz
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 27531

                  #23
                  Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                  Nothing but the truth. I was taught to look for the hole and when the QB would stick it in your gut you clamp down.
                  Steelers 27
                  Rats 16

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                  • NorCal-Steeler
                    Backup
                    • May 2008
                    • 255

                    #24
                    Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                    2 fumbles in last 2 games is not a Myth...
                    http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...Steeler/nc.jpg

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                    • fezziwig
                      Hall of Famer
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 3515

                      #25
                      Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                      I don't beleive it's Mendenhalls fault or not his all alone.

                      Bad snap, handed off a little too high if I recall.


                      Also, backs and QB's practice the handoff a good bit or at least they did when we played ball in school. It's second nature to these guys to expect the ball in one location when handed to them. Mendy and running backs as far as I know are always looking at the defense as soon as the ball is snapped. Many of the good backs will tell you prior to the first defensive guy they encounter they, are looking past them in preparation of eluding the second tier of defense.

                      Maybe someone could have blocked or impeded Ngata just a pinch.

                      Tell you the truth, I would love to have Ngata on our team.

                      Comment

                      • flippy
                        Legend
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 17088

                        #26
                        Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                        [youtube:1v2ppnzi]OcQzWMywcQY[/youtube:1v2ppnzi]

                        Here it is. After rewatching, it looks like it was Pouncey's fault to me.

                        Pouncey looks to have messed up the snap count and surprised Ben with the ball. Ngata goes on the snap. This why Legursky wasn't ready either and completely missed Ngata because he was probably waiting for the right snap count as well. Legursky's waiting on the right snap count to move and if the center screws up the snap, no Olineman has a chance against Ngata because he's keying in on the ball moving.

                        And as far as the handoff goes, Ben didn't have control of the ball. Didn't put it cleanly in Mendy's breadbasket. And if you watch Ben's head, he flinched a little bit when Ben was looking at Ngata and as a result Ben moved the ball up into Mendy's shoulder at the last second.

                        After watching that a second time, it's clear, it's mostly Pouncey's fault and a little Ben's fault. That's not on Mendy. And it's definitely not on Legursky who was waiting on the snap count to make his first move.

                        Looks like we all remembered it wrong. But if you rewatch, it's clear as day the snap was the issue.
                        sigpic

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                        • hawaiiansteel
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 35649

                          #27
                          Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                          After futher review …

                          September 12th, 2011
                          by Mark Kaboly

                          * The first play of the second half when Rashard Mendenhall fumbled after a crushing hit by Ngata, the entire problem with this play started when Pouncey had trouble identifying the ‘Mike’ linebacker.

                          Pouncey then appeared to snap the ball early that caused the chaos.

                          I am not going to sit here and pretend like I am smart enough to absolutely know whose fault it was, but if I was guessing, I’d say that David Johnson was responsible for blocking Ngata.

                          However, the overall blame I’d say would have to be put on Pouncey. There’s no question his early snap is what caused all the confusion in the first place.

                          [url="http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2011/09/12/after-futher-review/#.Tm6GUhZU19k.twitter"]http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... 9k.twitter[/url]

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                          • Jooser
                            Legend
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 5102

                            #28
                            Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                            [quote=Dee Dub]
                            Originally posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":13c1b9hy
                            i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

                            guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

                            you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.
                            OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

                            Cool.[/quote:13c1b9hy]

                            You can't pin this one on Mendy. First off, I played a lot of football in my time, and RB was one position I played a lot of. That was a piss poor handoff by Ben, up in the chest area, backs are trained to take the ball in the bread basket (and QBs are practice placing it there), eyes and head up looking for your first move. It's the QB's job to put the ball in the right spot, and the RBs job to clamp his arms and take it. It's really that simple. The ball was handed off under the ol' chin strap and Mendy's eyes were where they are supposed to be....up and looking for a place to run. That's why QBs and RBs practice handoffs, to get down the proper timing and placement of the football.
                            ​2019 MNFE CHAMPION

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                            • Ghost
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 6338

                              #29
                              Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                              Thanks for posting this Flippy!

                              I don't think it was Legursky. He clearly has a helmet on someone and there was no hesitation on the direction he was going. It's David Johnson that was responsible for blocking Ngata and he didn't do it. In fact, he runs straight ahead and doesn't touch a single Raven.

                              Bad snap and handle, but if Ngata gets even chipped that's not a fumble.
                              sigpic

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                              • papillon
                                Legend
                                • Mar 2008
                                • 11340

                                #30
                                Re: I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....

                                Originally posted by Ghost
                                Thanks for posting this Flippy!

                                I don't think it was Legursky. He clearly has a helmet on someone and there was no hesitation on the direction he was going. It's David Johnson that was responsible for blocking Ngata and he didn't do it. In fact, he runs straight ahead and doesn't touch a single Raven.

                                Bad snap and handle, but if Ngata gets even chipped that's not a fumble.
                                If Johnson was supposed to block Ngata, then the following question immediately comes to mind.

                                Why on God's green earth would we assign David Johnson to block the best DT in the NFL? Is it possible that Johnson and Legursky were supposed to double team Ngata? Johnson vs Ngata on a run play, that's a losing scenarion every f***ing time.

                                Pappy
                                sigpic

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