The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

[Discipline of Steel]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

Ok i can live with that! When you have a franchise QB it's a lot easier to handle a few injuries here or there as well.

So many factors in the game of football but our organization has done a great job but if you want to argue age and Aaron Smith then we really need to argue the point about Hines Ward as well NO?

Hines or Aaaron? Lets debate that one!

Hines still has value because we have an unproven group of young WRs. Wallace is on the upswing for sure but Sanders and Brown are far from sure things even though they did show glimmers of what they could do last year.

Ziggy clearly proved he could step in and perform to a high level for Smith. No WR has done that yet with regards to Hines. Besides once Hines gets 1000 catches this season to cement his HoF resume I think he too will have to go.

Thats like saying Jason Worilds clearly proved he could step in and perform at as high a level as James Harrison.

Maybe Worilds or someone else can. Would you have predicted that a player who had been cut three times and was nothing more than a special teams player could become the Defensive Player of the Year?

True but Harrison is now a proven commodity, having earned 3rd in DPOY last season, and Worilds, et al. are still unproven. The back surgery adds a little uncertainty but until James Harrisons play declines, hes still the most complete and ferocious linebacker in football. I look at where hes been, and where hes currently at, and it pains me to hear people engineering his departure to save cap room and make room so younger players can see the field. I dont care who they are, they arent nearly as good. I enjoy watching James Harrison's play in particular because he is the alpha male on the field. I would even go so far to say he is the quiet leader on that defense. Lets not be so hasty to throw the towel in on him yet. He deserves ample opportunity to prove himself because hes already done it so many times.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

Ok i can live with that! When you have a franchise QB it's a lot easier to handle a few injuries here or there as well.

So many factors in the game of football but our organization has done a great job but if you want to argue age and Aaron Smith then we really need to argue the point about Hines Ward as well NO?

Hines or Aaaron? Lets debate that one!

Hines still has value because we have an unproven group of young WRs. Wallace is on the upswing for sure but Sanders and Brown are far from sure things even though they did show glimmers of what they could do last year.

Ziggy clearly proved he could step in and perform to a high level for Smith. No WR has done that yet with regards to Hines. Besides once Hines gets 1000 catches this season to cement his HoF resume I think he too will have to go.

Thats like saying Jason Worilds clearly proved he could step in and perform at as high a level as James Harrison.

No Ziggy started thirteen games and the Dline was fine. Without question, "Ziggy clearly proved he could step in and perform to a high level for Smith."

Worilds has done NOTHING to prove ANYTHING close to that.

[Shawn]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

If forced to pick between Timmons and Woodley...it's really a no brainer for me. Timmons is the man. He does it all, covers, tackles, and is Troy Jr in his ability to blitz. Woodley is a terrific OLB, but also a product of being opposite Harrison and the 3-4 system. He can be replaced. I'm not suggesting I want him replaced but if forced to make decisions, it's an easy one for me.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

i guess i need some of that timmons kool aid your all drinking


the only thing he does better then woodley is cover, and its not like he doesnt get beat there either

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

i guess i need some of that timmons kool aid your all drinking


the only thing he does better then woodley is cover, and its not like he doesnt get beat there either

Actually if we lose Timmons the run D suffers mightily too.

Woodley's run D is nothing special. Replacing his run D is no big whoop

Woodley is really the "one trick pony" of the two.
"ALL" he excels at is rushing the passer.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

really?

he sets the edge on the end pretty well on run plays (just like harrison does on the other side) where timmons still gets lost when a blocker gets into him. if woodley had linemen taking up blocks for him like timmons does, i'm sure he would fly untouched to the ball occasionally too. i mean, how much worse were the run stats when an average and later waived larry foote was manning the same spot?

i'm not trying to downgrade timmons like you are with woodley. i wont label him 1 trick pony as you put it. but, i'll repeat myself and say the only thing he's better at is covering down the field.

he's not better against the run
he's not better coming off the edge.
he has trouble beating an RB staying in on blitz pick up (where woodley and harrison seem to man handle the RBs)
he doesn't cause more turnovers
woodley isnt even that bad in coverage (see cincy game)

[Shawn]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

Timmons is an athletic freak. He doesn't have a weakness in his game that I can see. He is fast, explosive and strong enough to sort through traffic. He is elite in coverage for a linebacker, blitzes as well as any ILB and is a force stopping the run. Call it Kool Aide drinking but the guy can play. Woodley blitzes and he does that well, no doubt about it. I think he is also very solid stopping the run. I think he is average when asked to cover. He is certainly not as well rounded, and no doubt he benefits being lined up opposite Harrison. The 3-4 system also improves his stock. If giving ratings I would give Woodley an 8.5/10 and Timmons a 9.5/10. There is little doubt in my mind that Timmons is the tougher guy to replace.

[Oviedo]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

Timmons is an athletic freak. He doesn't have a weakness in his game that I can see. He is fast, explosive and strong enough to sort through traffic. He is elite in coverage for a linebacker, blitzes as well as any ILB and is a force stopping the run. Call it Kool Aide drinking but the guy can play. Woodley blitzes and he does that well, no doubt about it. I think he is also very solid stopping the run. I think he is average when asked to cover. He is certainly not as well rounded, and no doubt he benefits being lined up opposite Harrison. The 3-4 system also improves his stock. If giving ratings I would give Woodley an 8.5/10 and Timmons a 9.5/10. There is little doubt in my mind that Timmons is the tougher guy to replace.

Timmons will always have his detractors because Tomlin drafted him instead of a certain LB from PSU. The reality is that at 25 Timmons is one of the best young LBs in the NFL. If I had to choose between Woodley and Timmons it woulkd be the latter no question asked. Timmons could do what Woodley does, but Woodley couldn't do what Timmons does.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

I think both are very good players. I just give woodley the edge. No poz lover here. Maybe kool aid was too strong of a phrase

I don't see Timmons being able to rush the QB as well as wood. He's lined uP outside a few times. All he has is a speed rush. I also don't think hes great when he has a blocker to deal with. he has more to prove then woodly IMO. 1st half of last year he was great though

I disagree he's harder to replace. We've seen the defense drop a notch when the LOLB isn't as strong as woodly. We become a more average defense when we can't get pressure from both sides. DL defense thrives when we get to the QB. I'm not chancing that if we had to choose between the 2. Easier to find someone play on the inside IMO

1 more thing I have a problem that I've seen on here. How Does wood benefit from having debo on the other side,. But Larry isn't benefitted from having double digit sack guys on the outside?? Offenses focus on our outside guys freeing up the inside blitz
There's no doubt in my mind who offenses are more worried about

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

Timmons is an athletic freak. He doesn't have a weakness in his game that I can see. He is fast, explosive and strong enough to sort through traffic. He is elite in coverage for a linebacker, blitzes as well as any ILB and is a force stopping the run. Call it Kool Aide drinking but the guy can play. Woodley blitzes and he does that well, no doubt about it. I think he is also very solid stopping the run. I think he is average when asked to cover. He is certainly not as well rounded, and no doubt he benefits being lined up opposite Harrison. The 3-4 system also improves his stock. If giving ratings I would give Woodley an 8.5/10 and Timmons a 9.5/10. There is little doubt in my mind that Timmons is the tougher guy to replace.

Timmons will always have his detractors because Tomlin drafted him instead of a certain LB from PSU. The reality is that at 25 Timmons is one of the best young LBs in the NFL. If I had to choose between Woodley and Timmons it woulkd be the latter no question asked. Timmons could do what Woodley does, but Woodley couldn't do what Timmons does.

You seriously think people are carrying a torch for Posluszny 4 years later? Please...

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

he sets the edge on the end pretty well on run plays (just like harrison does on the other side)

Woodley is not in the same stratosphere as Harrison versus the run.
Harrison had literally TWICE the number of tackles as Woodley.

Where timmons still gets lost when a blocker gets into him. if woodley had linemen taking up blocks for him like timmons does, i'm sure he would fly untouched to the ball occasionally too. i mean, how much worse were the run stats when an average and later waived larry foote was manning the same spot?

Wrong again.
Last season,Timmons had over 30 more tackles than Foote was ever had in a single season.
Not Even Close

You want to compare Woodley and Timmons Run D?
Do you know how we stop cold top running games? Texans, Ravens, Jets ?
Everytime we play one of those teams, Timmons is huge.

For example,discounting sacks, against the Texans, Timmons had 15 tackles versus 3 for Woodley.
Timmons had more tackles than Woodley and Farrior combined!

So who made the biggest difference in stopping cat quick Chris Johnson?

And before you make the "outside guys take all the blocks" excuse Harrison had 11 tackles in that game.

Timmons had 5 tackles to every one Woodley had.

i'm not trying to downgrade timmons like you are with woodley. i wont label him 1 trick pony as you put it. but, i'll repeat myself and say the only thing he's better at is covering down the field.

Oh please, when you say "the only thing" that is exactly what is implied.

he's not better against the run

Proven wrong

he's not better coming off the edge.
he has trouble beating an RB staying in on blitz pick up (where woodley and harrison seem to man handle the RBs)

Again, no matter how many ways you break it down, this is ONE SINGULAR area, where Woodley is better. A pass rusher.
He is today's Jason Gildon.

he doesn't cause more turnovers

Woodley had 5 Timmons 4 last season. A meaningless difference.
Actually they have exactly the same number of career turnovers. Ten.
This despite the fact that Woodley has an entire season head start as a starter.

Turnovers is a wash.

Look, I don't really "Hate" on Woodley. Prior to this thread I never said anything negative about him.
I hope we can sign both.
This is Just "in comparison to Timmons"

Woodley is an awesome pass rusher.
Like Kevin Greene or Jason Gildon.

But given a choice between those guys and say a Gregg Lloyd, I take Lloyd every time.
But by the definitions you give, Gildon was better than Lloyd.

Timmons is like Lloyd in his skill set, with less mean but more speed.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

I never liked Larry foote much and thought we could improve that spot in the defense for a while. That said how much 'worse' was the entire defense vs. The run game when he was in there?? Not looking at individual tackling stats. You make it sound like the run D stunk before Timmons took over that spot. Furthermore if woodley was so bad against the run why the heck are teams abandoning it against us. Why not just run it over the right tackle play after play like we did to GB in the 3rd qr to exploit that weakness

What are Timmons weaknesses in your opinion?
What can he improve on? Just curious.


Ps. I don't get the Lloyd comparisons. GL was an elite pass rusher. I don't feel LT is in that class

[bam morris's lawyer]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

I would give up Smith, keisel, farrior, or ward, before I'd give up either of our young LBs. That's where the salary dumps will take place, if need be. Smith may very well be done, Hines has 1 or 2 more years, same with farrior. Keisel and smith's replacements are already here. The FO has been historically very shrewd about when to let an aging vet go, and I doubt they'll change their policy now. I'm sure they see that Hines and Aaron are near the end. They both love this team, and may take less to stay. Or, they may retire. But both would be sacrificed before Woodley or timmons. There is NO ONE that can bring what Timmons has. And Worilds has not proved anything yet. The OLBs are the showcase of a 3-4 defense. If they are not dominant pass rushers, the 3-4 will falter. We've been spoiled with our OLBs in Pittsburgh. It's been one nasty group after another. If that changed, our secondary would get brutally shredded. All four of the vets I mentioned already have young replacements in waiting. That tells you all you need to know.

[flippy]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

If our OLBs bring as much pressure as many think, why does Lebeau have to send Troy and Timmons from both ends to generate pressure in critical 3rd downs so often?

Harrison and Woodley are great OLBs. They are both well rounded guys. And Woodley can drop into coverage. And it reminds me of the way Levon Kirkland was great in coverage but for some reason, no one ever gave him credit for that part of his game. I think people see a big body and assume a guy can't cover. But just like Levon, when you watch Woodley in coverage, he's pretty darn good.

I like Woodley and Timmons. From day 1 with Woodley, his game was complete. And Timmons is still growing into his athleticism today.

In fairness, Timmons has a lot more responsibilities. But when he finally puts it all together, we're gonna be talking about him as the best LB in the league. I'm down for this year being his breakout season.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: The Steelers LB Situation: Taking It One Year At A Time

If our OLBs bring as much pressure as many think, why does Lebeau have to send Troy and Timmons from both ends to generate pressure in critical 3rd downs so often?

Harrison and Woodley are great OLBs. They are both well rounded guys. And Woodley can drop into coverage. And it reminds me of the way Levon Kirkland was great in coverage but for some reason, no one ever gave him credit for that part of his game. I think people see a big body and assume a guy can't cover. But just like Levon, when you watch Woodley in coverage, he's pretty darn good.

I like Woodley and Timmons. From day 1 with Woodley, his game was complete. And Timmons is still growing into his athleticism today.

In fairness, Timmons has a lot more responsibilities. But when he finally puts it all together, we're gonna be talking about him as the best LB in the league. I'm down for this year being his breakout season.

I disagree about people not giving Kirkland credit for his ability to cover. I would always marvel at the ability for a guy pushing 3 bills to stay with a TE 30 yards downfield. Remarkable.