RIP NFL

[SS Laser]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

[Crash]

Re: RIP NFL

If you want to see a lockout wipe a year out because of me you have some issues my friend.

[Crash]

Re: RIP NFL

Are the owners going to demand that all players signed to current contracts must shave 5-10% off the agreed amount of that contract? No? So- how are the players losing money?

Well right now there is no cap. So teams can cut whomever they choose with no penalty. With no cap also means there is no salary floor also, so teams can spend as little as they want.

[Chadman]

Re: RIP NFL

Are the owners going to demand that all players signed to current contracts must shave 5-10% off the agreed amount of that contract? No? So- how are the players losing money?

Well right now there is no cap. So teams can cut whomever they choose with no penalty. With no cap also means there is no salary floor also, so teams can spend as little as they want.

That doesn't discount my point at all.

No player is being asked to earn less. All existing contracts are status quo. As for cutting players- cap or no cap teams cut players. The guarenteed money in their contract is not refunded though, is it?

[Oviedo]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

Good analogy but one critical flaw in your argument. The difference is that the "stars" of the NFL have no other movies to audition for or any other movie compnaies to go and perform with. There is no Broadway for them to peddle their wares. There are no independent artzy film companies for them to stretch their talents. There are no TV shows for them to do. They only have one source of employment and income...the teams owned by the owners operating under the banner of the NFL.

I totally agree this will get done as soon as Dumbius Smith and the hardcore union radicals get enough pressure from the players that they are losing too much.

[feltdizz]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

Good analogy but one critical flaw in your argument. The difference is that the "stars" of the NFL have no other movies to audition for or any other movie compnaies to go and perform with. There is no Broadway for them to peddle their wares. There are no independent artzy film companies for them to stretch their talents. There are no TV shows for them to do. They only have one source of employment and income...the teams owned by the owners operating under the banner of the NFL.

I totally agree this will get done as soon as Dumbius Smith and the hardcore union radicals get enough pressure from the players that they are losing too much.

UFL and Canadian football is the indie film biz for the NFL. Players can become coaches or move on to other avenues in sports to make money.

It's actually a great analogy by laser and it's the trump card the players have. Who wants to watch the Steelers with Joe the Plumber at QB? The owners don't have a product without the best athletes in the world. If they put bums on the field the stands will look like Carolina or Miami...

Unions aren't evil... people talk about the unions like they are the reasons businesses fail. Those businesses were failing regardless because labor is dirt cheap in China. Detroit didn't fail because of unions.. they failed because Japan makes better cars.

Without unions we will see the US turn into a 3rd world country.

The only thing I agree with is a rookie cap. That is out of control.

[Djfan]

Re: RIP NFL

The reality is that unions are useless. They had a purpose during the transition from an agrarian economy to an urban, indutrial economy but in the last 30-40 years they have ultimately cost more jobs than they saved (ask steelworkers and auto workers) because they are totally focused on the short term to the detriment of all else.

As a teacher who worked under a very bad principal, I have to disagree here. By nature I am a "leave me to do my job and ride on that merit" kind of guy, but a bad principal could have ruined my career forever. Glad the union was there for me. He was ultimately fired, but not before doing lots of damage.

[Oviedo]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

Good analogy but one critical flaw in your argument. The difference is that the "stars" of the NFL have no other movies to audition for or any other movie compnaies to go and perform with. There is no Broadway for them to peddle their wares. There are no independent artzy film companies for them to stretch their talents. There are no TV shows for them to do. They only have one source of employment and income...the teams owned by the owners operating under the banner of the NFL.

I totally agree this will get done as soon as Dumbius Smith and the hardcore union radicals get enough pressure from the players that they are losing too much.

UFL and Canadian football is the indie film biz for the NFL. Players can become coaches or move on to other avenues in sports to make money.

It's actually a great analogy by laser and it's the trump card the players have. Who wants to watch the Steelers with Joe the Plumber at QB? The owners don't have a product without the best athletes in the world. If they put bums on the field the stands will look like Carolina or Miami...

Unions aren't evil... people talk about the unions like they are the reasons businesses fail. Those businesses were failing regardless because labor is dirt cheap in China. Detroit didn't fail because of unions.. they failed because Japan makes better cars.

Without unions we will see the US turn into a 3rd world country.

The only thing I agree with is a rookie cap. That is out of control.

We can disagree about unions. Look at where there are the biggest most powerful unions: Government workers, Teachers and MLB. All are poor performing organizations.

I don't think employees in high tech companies that predominantly don't have unions would consider themselves third world. Most employees working for those companies get paid more than employees in union dominanted industries.

[papillon]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

The owners however have resources to pull from to employ players (stars) and so do the movie production companies. The movies (football games) may see a drop in quality and the value of their business decline until they get back up to speed, but the resources are there for the hiring. Now, it is in the best interests of both sides to get an agreement hammered out and continue the product as it is currently marketed.

The NFL most likely operates under the economic principals of a Cartel or monopoly and even in those models there are supply, demand and price scenarios that maximize profit. Even though they have a monopoly there are limits to how tickets, merchandise, etc can be priced to maximize profit. I'm sure the NFL employs a few microeconomics professionals to help them price their product and right now they are forecasting the future without games being played and how to maximize their profit.

It's a business like any other business and there are economic models available to them to ensure that they are maximizing profit and it would be astonishing if they aren't.

Pappy

[feltdizz]

Re: RIP NFL

I have a few questions for you guys. How can you see the NFL as any old business? I read a ton on here and do not post much so I know a few of you guys are smarter then that.

This is a very different case here boys. I see the NFL kind of like the movie business. Without the "stars" the movie sucks. Without the big movie companys "movies"
suck. I think you see what I am saying. So the players are not just everyday employee's who can be replaced. Yes I know some can. But not all. Some players are special. But there also is no NFL without the big money owners. ROCK MEET HARD PLACE!

So who gets screwed here the fans. Crash I hope you have to live this year without Ben for a season. Oh how nice it would be. But then I would mis the steelers! ROCK MEET HARD PLACE.

This will get done at some point. Every owner and player likes all the money we pay them.
They just have to decide who gets richer quicker.

Good analogy but one critical flaw in your argument. The difference is that the "stars" of the NFL have no other movies to audition for or any other movie compnaies to go and perform with. There is no Broadway for them to peddle their wares. There are no independent artzy film companies for them to stretch their talents. There are no TV shows for them to do. They only have one source of employment and income...the teams owned by the owners operating under the banner of the NFL.

I totally agree this will get done as soon as Dumbius Smith and the hardcore union radicals get enough pressure from the players that they are losing too much.

UFL and Canadian football is the indie film biz for the NFL. Players can become coaches or move on to other avenues in sports to make money.

It's actually a great analogy by laser and it's the trump card the players have. Who wants to watch the Steelers with Joe the Plumber at QB? The owners don't have a product without the best athletes in the world. If they put bums on the field the stands will look like Carolina or Miami...

Unions aren't evil... people talk about the unions like they are the reasons businesses fail. Those businesses were failing regardless because labor is dirt cheap in China. Detroit didn't fail because of unions.. they failed because Japan makes better cars.

Without unions we will see the US turn into a 3rd world country.

The only thing I agree with is a rookie cap. That is out of control.

We can disagree about unions. Look at where there are the biggest most powerful unions: Government workers, Teachers and MLB. All are poor performing organizations.

I don't think employees in high tech companies that predominantly don't have unions would consider themselves third world. Most employees working for those companies get paid more than employees in union dominanted industries.

There isn't a large talent pool for hi tech companies to choose from... just like football players.

hi tech companies are also outsourcing a ton of work to 3rd world countries.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: RIP NFL

Are the owners going to demand that all players signed to current contracts must shave 5-10% off the agreed amount of that contract? No? So- how are the players losing money?

Well right now there is no cap. So teams can cut whomever they choose with no penalty. With no cap also means there is no salary floor also, so teams can spend as little as they want.

That doesn't discount my point at all.

No player is being asked to earn less. All existing contracts are status quo. As for cutting players- cap or no cap teams cut players. The guarenteed money in their contract is not refunded though, is it?

It has happened before in hockey.

Following the 2004-2005 NHL lockout in which an entire season was lost, all players with remaining years left on their contracts had contracts rolled back 24%.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: RIP NFL

Bonuses on hold for several Steelers

Wednesday, March 02, 2011
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Peter Diana/Post-Gazette
Steelers linebacker James Harrison is scheduled to receive a $900,000 roster bonus Friday.

If linebacker James Harrison thought his $100,000 in fines last season hurt, he is about to find a hole in his pocket nine fold.

The Steelers will owe their All-Pro a $900,000 roster bonus Friday, but, unless the NFL and players union come to a highly unexpected agreement by midnight Thursday on a new collective bargaining agreement, Harrison won't see that money Friday or perhaps for six months or more.

Harrison should not feel too bad because rookie Maurkice Pouncey is due an option bonus this month of more than $5 million that he won't see for maybe quite some time.

And that first-round tender contract offer they made Willie Colon Tuesday as a "restricted" free agent? That most likely will be as elusive as the Steelers' seventh Lombardi Trophy.

The players and owners will continue to meet with a federal mediator in Washington today, but no significant progress has been reported after nearly two weeks of such discussions. The NFL, meanwhile, will convene a meeting of all 32 owners or top executives today just outside of the nation's capital.

That is when the owners are expected to approve a lockout of their players if there's no new CBA when the current one expires at midnight Thursday. That expiration/lockout will bring the NFL to a halt, which means none of the roster/option/delayed signing bonuses due at the start of the next calendar year will be paid until, well, there is a next calendar year.

And that may take awhile.

"There's not going to be a big push by anyone to take less than what they want at this point," said safety Ryan Clark, the Steelers' union representative to the NFL Players Association. "There's time to negotiate and get what's fair. Both sides will continue to work toward what they feel is a fair goal for them."

That could mean a lockout through the usual training camp periods or longer.

There is little pressure to strike a deal more than six months before the regular season is scheduled to begin and there's little money being lost at the moment. Players receive their salaries only during the season. The exceptions are those in the minority who have bonuses due this month based on contracts that were signed previously --and they won't receive that money until there's a new CBA.

"Nothing will be paid until the first day of the new league year," said Bill Parise, Harrison's agent. "We're going to get paid sooner or later. The impasse won't last forever. We'll play football this year. I think everybody feels that way."

That last point is debatable, but Harrison has plenty of company among those who must wait longer for their March bonuses. Steelers in the same boat range from the youngest, Pouncey, to the most veteran, Hines Ward. March bonuses have become more prevalent over the past decade as teams tried to minimize the effect of signing bonuses on salary caps and also as a way of permitting them to release a player before the bonus comes due as the Steelers did with Joey Porter in 2007.

Parise said Harrison has been aware for quite some time that his March bonus might not come in a timely manner and was prepared for it. The union has been telling its players for two years to prepare for such things.

For those who have not, missing that balloon payment could signal the first bit of hardships the players will experience because of a lockout.

"It is if you budgeted money for the spring and come up short," said agent Eric Metz, a Monroeville native.

The NFL continues to operate as usual, even though it can see the cliff it is about to reach by the end of Thursday.

Many teams are even sending out restricted tender offers to players who usually would become unrestricted free agents Friday, and that includes the Steelers. Under past CBA rules, players would become unrestricted after four years of service. That changed last year when rules changed for the final year of the CBA -- players could not become unrestricted until they had six years of service.

Colon was among those affected; he was restricted last year rather than unrestricted, and for the third consecutive year, the Steelers have tendered him a contract as such. He earned $2,198,000 last season.

A new CBA, though, is unlikely to make players go six years before becoming unrestricted free agents so the Steelers' tender to Colon likely will be rendered useless, ultimately.

"Obviously, the union doesn't expect that to be upheld," Metz said of the RFA tenders to players who have completed at least four years. "That was what the strikes in the '80s were for; they're not going to give that back."

Agent Joe Linta confirmed the tender to Colon. The Steelers have two potential RFAs in quarterback Dennis Dixon and offensive tackle Tony Hills, but there was no word on whether they received tenders or not.

Metz has two clients who have received one-year contract tenders from the Arizona Cardinals as restricted free agents, even though they have four years of service behind them. One is wide receiver/punt returner Steve Breaston, who played at Woodlands Hills High School. The other is starting center Lyle Sendlein.

"That's' happening," said agent Ralph Cindrich of Pittsburgh who also has players in that situation. "No one knows for sure if they'll hold up."

It's a world of unknown the entire NFL appears about to enter.

Read more: [url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11061/1128944-66.stm#ixzz1FT1gxHeG"]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11061/11 ... z1FT1gxHeG[/url]

[Blockhead]

Re: RIP NFL

It has happened before in hockey.

Following the 2004-2005 NHL lockout in which an entire season was lost, all players with remaining years left on their contracts had contracts rolled back 24%.

If the players union doesn't take a deal and a season is lost, I certainly hope the owners do something similar. These player unions need put in their place. They take no risk in their contracts, do not take any of the risk of ownership, yet want to pretend they somehow are more than what they are, employees, replaceable employees.

[Crash]

Re: RIP NFL

It has happened before in hockey.

Following the 2004-2005 NHL lockout in which an entire season was lost, all players with remaining years left on their contracts had contracts rolled back 24%.

If the players union doesn't take a deal and a season is lost, I certainly hope the owners do something similar. These player unions need put in their place. They take no risk in their contracts, do not take any of the risk of ownership, yet want to pretend they somehow are more than what they are, employees, replaceable employees.

Yeah how was attendance during scab ball again?

[ScoreKeeper]

Re: RIP NFL

They take no risk in their contracts?

This is not baseball where the contract is guaranteed. An NFL player can be cut at any time and their contract voided.

I am not on the side of the players in this, for the most part, but to say they take no risk when the average career is 3.5 years and contracts are not fully guaranteed, is incorrect.