Board poll draft - round 3

[steelerkeylargo]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

....Moore is not a first round talent.

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.

I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

....Moore is not a first round talent.

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.

I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.

The issue isn’t about how many times one misses on a prospect. It is the fact that even the best scouts in the world miss often. Every year there is proof of this. You can say all you want, even the best in the business are probably wrong at least 35-40% of the time.

I am man. I have never ever had a problem admitting when I was wrong. It is well documented on this forum as well as the old Trib.

Peace

[Dee Dub]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

....Moore is not a first round talent.

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.

I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.

Oh and the best scouts in the business had Roy Williams (8th overall), ahead of Ed Reed (24th overall), in 2002. That as we know wasn’t the case.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

....Moore is not a first round talent.

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.

I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.

Question for you..after the 2009 season many professional scouts had Rahim Moore as a possible top 15 pick how in your mind is he now longer even a legit end of round pick?

And can you tell us why you dont think he is a first round pick? What do you see as the reasons why? I would like your scouting report on him. Thanks.

[steelerkeylargo]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

[quote=Dee Dub][quote=steelerkeylargo][quote="Dee Dub":2304a349][quote=steelerkeylargo]....Moore is not a first round talent.[/quote]

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.[/quote]


I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.[/quote]

Question for you..after the 2009 season many professional scouts had Rahim Moore as a possible top 15 pick how in your mind is he now longer even a legit end of round pick?

And can you tell us why you dont think he is a first round pick? What do you see as the reasons why? I would like your scouting report on him. Thanks.[/quote:2304a349]

For the same reason guys like Jake Locker and Allen Bailey fall out of favor....flaws are brought to light. I was gonna post this tomorrow but ask and ye shall receive.

[url="http://thenationalfootballreport.com/2011/02/15/2011-nfl-draft-profile-rahim-moore/"]http://thenationalfootballreport.com/20 ... him-moore/[/url]

[papillon]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

Here's a write up on Dee Dub's guy Ras-I Dowling. He sounds like a Steeler corner to me.
I highlighted what look like good skills to have if you're a corner for the Steelers. He's getting a second round grade, man, I'd love our draft to shake out: Pouncey then Dowling.

Read & React: Experienced corner who has seen all the tricks. Rarely out of position, even against double-moves, due to his instincts and vision. Keeps an eye on the quarterback and breaks on the ball quickly. Height and long arms make it very difficult to beat him over the top.

Man Coverage: Has the long arms and good upper-body strength for an effective jam at the line of scrimmage. Is often able to disrupt route timing. Good balance and opens up his hips smoothly. Can lose a step in transition but has surprisingly good acceleration and at least fair straight-line speed. Rides the receiver downfield, keeping good contact throughout the route. Faster on the field than he'll be on the stopwatch.

Zone Coverage: Savvy zone coverage defender. High in his backpedal, but is surprisingly fluid. Keeps his eyes on the quarterback, but has a good sense of where his receiver is. Will bait the passer into making the throw. Reacts quickly because of his vision and acceleration.

Closing/Recovery: Lacks elite recovery speed, making him susceptible to double-moves by NFL route-runners. Shows good instincts, however, and his rare height and arm length make throwing over the top of him dangerous. Locates the football quickly and is an explosive leaper with good timing and good ball skills.

Run Support: Reads run quickly and fights through receiver blocks efficiently through lateral agility and good upper-body strength. Willing to take on bigger ballcarriers with no hesitation. Uses the sideline to help defend the run. Understands his role in keeping contain and pushes the action back inside when he can't make the play. Willing to take on blocks to free up teammates for the easy stop.

Tackling: Good balance and lateral agility to handle tackling smaller, quicker players in the open field. Breaks down well and makes strong, secure tackles. Likes to intimidate his opponent with big hits. Will hit-lift-drive the ballcarrier into the ground when he can, resulting in impressive stops. Good pursuit and takes good angles to the ball, masking a lack of elite straight-line speed.

Intangibles: Played a postgrad season for coach Robert Prunty at Hargrave Military Academy following his senior year at Deep Creek High School. Had appeared in 35 of a possible 37 games for the Cavaliers prior to his senior season. Only started twice in five games played in 2010 due to injuries. Fractured his left ankle Nov. 13 against Maryland. Well respected teammate. Hard worker. Team captain in 2010. Nominee for the 2010 Allstate AFCA Good Works Team.

Pappy

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

I will make a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.

and do we still have our Gentleman's bet that Danny Watkins does not last until the 3rd round like you have him in your mock? I don't believe he will go in the first round by any means, but no way he makes it to the third round...


Rang's big board: Top 32 plus 10


By Rob Rang
The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
Feb. 8, 2011

Rob Rang's Big Board for the April 28-30 NFL Draft:


1. Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU* (* -- junior)
Shutdown corner with the ability to impact the game as a returner; will be "safest" pick in the draft.

2. Da'Quan Bowers, DE, Clemson*
Hard to believe, but even though he led the nation with 15.5 sacks he's more impressive against run than pass.

3. Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn*
The most talented player in the draft, but I'm less willing to gamble on his greatness with such a strong class of defensive linemen.

4. Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M
Answered only questions about his game at the Senior Bowl, proving his height was legitimate -- at 6-foot-2 5/8 -- and proving fluidity in coverage.

5. Robert Quinn, DE/OLB, North Carolina*
A more explosive pass rusher than Bowers; viewed by some as a better fit as a 3-4 rush linebacker.

6. A.J. Green, WR, Georgia*
Has to prove speed to move into my top five, but has a similar combination of hands and body control to project as a Larry Fitzgerald or Sidney Rice type of receiver. Could dominate with solid QB play.

7. Marcell Dareus, DT/DE, Alabama*
Strong, stout and quick, Dareus can play inside and out in either scheme.

8. Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
Rare to see two corners with a top-10 grades, but Amukamara has the size, physicality to compete right away.

9. Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri*
By returning to Missouri, Smith could've been the elite defensive prospect in 2012 draft. He's raw, but has spectacular upside.

10. Julio Jones, WR, Alabama*
Rare size, strength and physicality for position will make him an early standout. There is some Anquan Boldin-like toughness here.

11. Cameron Jordan, DE, California
Showed everyone at Senior Bowl what I've been saying for months -- he's arguably the most versatile defensive lineman in a class blessed with such prospects.

12. Mark Ingram, RB, Alabama*
Tough to assign this lofty grade for a back in a draft as backloaded at the position as this one, but Ingram's rare combination of vision, balance, burst and low center of gravity remind me of only one back -- Emmitt Smith.

13. Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri*
With size, arm strength, good accuracy and a quick release, he has all of the tools, but wasn't consistent enough to land a top-10 grade.

14. Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
Solder's weak base and moderate strength are concerns, but his rare size and flexibility make him an ideal left tackle prospect.

15. Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa
Stats say he struggled this season, but a closer look shows he did all of the little things well. I'd have no problem drafting him with a top 15 pick, especially if running a 4-3 alignment.



Mike Pouncey could make a big impact like brother Maurkice. (US Presswire)

16. Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
Size, strength and the athleticism to block at the second level, Pouncey's ability to stand out against SEC competition makes him an easy first-round pick.

17. Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
Not as athletic as Solder, but another true left tackle who played with greater strength at the Senior Bowl than I'd previously seen on tape.

18. Cam Newton, QB, Auburn*
The wild card of the first round: If he impresses with his footwork, accuracy and interviews, he could move up 10 spots. If he fails in those areas, he could slide 10 or more spots.

19. Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois*
Penetrating three-technique defensive tackle who quietly rates behind only Fairley and Dareus on many draft boards.

20. Tyron Smith, OT, Southern Cal*
In terms of pure talent, Smith is this year's best tackle -- but his experience lies on the right side and his future is at left tackle. Scouts have questioned his maturity. I'll wait for a deserving top 20 to come off the board before taking a gamble on his high ceiling.

21. Danny Watkins, OL, Baylor
It might seem difficult to assign a 26-year-old guard a first-round grade, but with only four years of football, Watkins isn't beaten up and was very impressive at the Senior Bowl.

22. Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (Fla.)*
Struggled against big receivers, including Notre Dame's Michael Floyd in the Sun Bowl, but boasts quicker feet in coverage than Peterson or Amukamara.[/color]

23. Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
A road grader with enough size and reach for pass protection, Carimi would be best moving to right tackle.

24. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
Legitimate top-15 talent, but off-field concerns and the fact that he didn't compete at the Senior Bowl drop him down my board.

25. Muhammad Wilkerson, DL, Temple*
The best defensive lineman no one seems to be talking about ... yet.

26. Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA*
Another elite athlete, but his moderate instincts and tendency to overrun the play make him a gamble.

27. Derek Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State
I'm admittedly higher on Sherrod than most but see him as an ideal swing tackle capable of stepping in immediately; well worth first-round pick.

28. Ryan Kerrigan, DE, Purdue
Lots to like about Kerrigan's hustle and production. His thinner lower body and marginal hand play are concerns.

29. J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin*
The ideal defensive end for the 3-4 but might not have a fit in the 4-3, limiting his grade.

30. Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor
A top-20 talent athletically, but will have to answer questions about his suspension and transfer from Penn State to get drafted there.

31. TE Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame*
Not an explosive player, but has size, soft hands and is clearly the elite option at the position, which should push him into the first round.

32. WR Torrey Smith, Maryland*
Currently leads Kentucky's Randall Cobb in the tight race to be third WR due to greater height and straight-line speed.

Next 10

RB Mikel LeShoure, Illinois*
WR Randall Cobb, Kentucky*
DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio State (injury)
DT Stephen Paea, Oregon State (injury)
QB Jake Locker, Washington
C/OG Rodney Hudson, Florida State
CB Aaron Wiliams, Texas*
QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas*
WR Jerrel Jernigan, Troy
FS Rahim Moore, UCLA*

[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14663480/rangs-big-board-top-32-plus-10"]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/stor ... 32-plus-10[/url]

[steelerkeylargo]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

I will meet you half way and say he will be closer to the 3rd round than the first round.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

I will meet you half way and say he will be closer to the 3rd round than the first round.

my bet is and always has been that Watkins does not see Round 3, that's where you had him in your mock.

if you would like to accept defeat now on this wager then I can just PM you my address and you can send the Cuban cigars there...

[Dee Dub]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

[quote=steelerkeylargo][quote=Dee Dub][quote=steelerkeylargo][quote="Dee Dub":fo24kmcb][quote=steelerkeylargo]....Moore is not a first round talent.[/quote]

In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.[/quote]


I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.[/quote]

Question for you..after the 2009 season many professional scouts had Rahim Moore as a possible top 15 pick how in your mind is he now longer even a legit end of round pick?

And can you tell us why you dont think he is a first round pick? What do you see as the reasons why? I would like your scouting report on him. Thanks.[/quote]

For the same reason guys like Jake Locker and Allen Bailey fall out of favor....flaws are brought to light. I was gonna post this tomorrow but ask and ye shall receive.

[url="http://thenationalfootballreport.com/2011/02/15/2011-nfl-draft-profile-rahim-moore/"]http://thenationalfootballreport.com/20 ... him-moore/[/url][/quote:fo24kmcb]

So you can’t specifically break down and give us your scouting report on Moore? And tell us why you think he isn’t a first round pick?

This website you have given details Moore’s weakness as…

Weaknesses-Does not show the willingness to be a solid tackler in run support. Seems to shy away from contact at times vs. the run. Shows the ability to square up the ball carrier but lets the contact come to him as opposed to driving through the tackle. Shows inconsistency in his game that seems to be tied to the scoreboard and how well the team is playing overall. Needs to put on some muscle and size.

Moore is a free safety. His tackling ability is and shouldn’t be that much of a concern. He is going to be called upon to cover. And as a free safety he is one of the better ones at this in the past few years.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

[quote=Dee Dub][quote=steelerkeylargo][quote="Dee Dub":3m6j3t5y][quote=steelerkeylargo][quote="Dee Dub":3m6j3t5y]In your opinion. I think he is. And just curious, have you ever been wrong on a player evaluation? Trick question. If you say yes then there is a chance you are wrong on Moore. If you say no…well then I think we all know how that will look.[/quote]


I have (Duke Robinson comes to mind)...but very rarely. I would be hard pressed to find a thread where you own up to being wrong on a player too. I will make you a Gentlemens bet Moore will not be drafted before pick 40. He will be a starting FS for someone someday, but no time soon.[/quote]

Question for you..after the 2009 season many professional scouts had Rahim Moore as a possible top 15 pick how in your mind is he now longer even a legit end of round pick?

And can you tell us why you dont think he is a first round pick? What do you see as the reasons why? I would like your scouting report on him. Thanks.[/quote]

For the same reason guys like Jake Locker and Allen Bailey fall out of favor....flaws are brought to light. I was gonna post this tomorrow but ask and ye shall receive.

[url="http://thenationalfootballreport.com/2011/02/15/2011-nfl-draft-profile-rahim-moore/"]http://thenationalfootballreport.com/20 ... him-moore/[/url][/quote:3m6j3t5y]

So you can’t specifically break down and give us your scouting report on Moore? And tell us why you think he isn’t a first round pick?

This website you have given details Moore’s weakness as…

Weaknesses-Does not show the willingness to be a solid tackler in run support. Seems to shy away from contact at times vs. the run. Shows the ability to square up the ball carrier but lets the contact come to him as opposed to driving through the tackle. Shows inconsistency in his game that seems to be tied to the scoreboard and how well the team is playing overall. Needs to put on some muscle and size.

Moore is a free safety. His tackling ability is and shouldn’t be that much of a concern. He is going to be called upon to cover. And as a free safety he is one of the better ones at this in the past few years.[/quote:3m6j3t5y]

Dub,

SKL writes for the National Football Report. He is the Kevin C. that wrote up that scouting report on Moore.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Board poll draft - round 2

Why isn't Marcus Cannon listed as a possibility for us in your second round poll (since he is the guy that Walter is actually projecting to us there)?

[Dee Dub]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

Dub,

SKL writes for the National Football Report. He is the Kevin C. that wrote up that scouting report on Moore.

Fantastic. Then if he is basing his negatives on Moore as a poor tackler when he is a free safety then I would have to say his report isn’t a very good one.

P.S. look up the negatives on Ed Reed coming out of Miami.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

Sorry, should have included the link to the Walter mock.

[url="http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php"]http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php[/url]

For those saying Pouncey, they have him going at 29 to the Bears. They have us taking Harris with Castonzo going next to the Pack.

Well if Pouncey is on the board when the Falcons are on the clock at #27....They better be calling them. Offer them our 1st, 3rd, & 5th for their 1st & 4th. If they don't like that, then offer them our 1st & 3rd for their 1st & 5th. If they didn't like that, then just our 1st & 3rd for their 1st. AT least we solve our RG for the next 10 years.

1st - To play along and using Walterfootball's draft with no trade back scenarios....I would go with Harris also.

2nd - To stay with the same Walterfootball's draft...I would select Marcus Cannon too.

[steelerkeylargo]

Re: Board poll draft - round 1

Dub,

SKL writes for the National Football Report. He is the Kevin C. that wrote up that scouting report on Moore.

Fantastic. Then if he is basing his negatives on Moore as a poor tackler when he is a free safety then I would have to say his report isn’t a very good one.

P.S. look up the negatives on Ed Reed coming out of Miami.

Dee you are entitled to your opinion. I am just giving mine based on breaking down multiple games. Keep in mind I am not saying he can't play. I compare him to Thomas DeCoud of the Falcons who is a solid FS. I am simply saying he is not first round talent. Also if you are comparing Moore to Ed Reed I will have to question your evaluation skills. The following is also a report on Moore from a former NFL Scout whose opinion I respect.


Strengths: Has excellent overall athletic ability, play speed, and range for the position at the NFL level. Has loose hips, good bend, and quick feet in coverage. Has outstanding overall coverage instincts, awareness, and anticipation skills. Has excellent closing ability on plays in front of him as a zone defender. Has the speed and transition skills to be an effective man-to-man coverage player against a running back, tight end, or slot receiver. Takes above average pursuit angles in run support. He has great timing as blitzer.

Weaknesses: Is a bit undersized and lacks much growth potential to develop for the position at the NFL level. Lacks elite long speed, acceleration, and recovery speed downfield in man-to-man coverage. Is a inconsistent tackler on the move in space. Can be in great man-to-man coverage position against a big wide receiver or tight end, but not have a chance to make a play on the ball because of his lack of size. Does not have return value for special teams.

Bottom line: Moore is a true junior and three-year starter at free safety in 2010. He led the nation with 10 interceptions in 2009. Overall, he merits high third-round draft consideration by a team looking for a potential first-year starter at free safety as a rookie. He is at least a strong third deep safety and core member of special teams.