It's official FWP still ..................

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

I'm not a Willie Parker fan...but it's not because he doesn't have skills. He has skills...just not the skills that move chains, eat clock, and run those tough 3rd and 3's.

I'm a fan of backs that can do it all. If you can't find that back you need to go with 2 backs that complement each other. If you didn't know I wasn't a Bettis fan either. Why? Because, he couldn't make D's respect the edges. He couldn't be a threat in the passing game. Combine a young Bettis and Parker...well that would be something to watch. Especially, if you could find creative ways to get them on the field at the same time.

Which leads me to our current situation. We drafted a back in the first for a reason. Parker...by himself...against all teams...is not enough. We drafted a guy that runs hard and can catch...the things Parker doesn't do all that well. But, we got a bonus...a top 10 talent fell into our laps. He is the complete package. He can do it all. He runs with authority, speed, vision, and has soft hands. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Mendenhall starting by first game next season. Parker while skilled is limited in what he can do...hence the great divide in opinion.

Excellent! Someone other then myself gets it. Teams are going to start to realize that if you pinch FWP into the middle of the field he is ineffective. One game will not change my opinion of him besides alot of his yardage was in the 2nd half when the game was clearly out of reach. Let's see how FWP does against the Giants, Colts, Chargers and Patriots front 7. My guess is he doesn't sniff a 100 yards and we struggle on offense all day because we can't run the ball.

Plenty of us understand what you're saying...we just don't all agree with it.

According to the play by play, between the tackles Parker was 13 for 38 in the first half.

In the 2nd half, when we had a big lead (21-3 to start the half) and the D was stacked to stop the run, Parker was 8 for 53 between the tackles.

His 32 yard run was outside the tackles.

So he had 25 rushes for 138 yards. 21 of those carries went between the tackles for 61 yards and he got better as the game went on which is what you want from a running back.

Mendy had 10 carries for 28 yards, with a long of 9.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29536&displayPage=tab_play_by_p lay&season=2008&week=REG1"]http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... &week=REG1[/url]

Thanks for doing the math, stlrzd. The bottom line as I see it is that FWP behind our front line owned a very well respected D line. People can pull out all the stats they want, talk about what FWP doesn't have, but the bottom line is FWP did well in that game, and was getting stronger as the game went on.

And we need more than this because .... ?

Because we were 10-6 last season...and need to improve in the running game against top notch run D's. The Steelers are on the verge of becoming elite. A back that can do it all...or a really nice 1/2 punch can push us into serious SB contenders.

[stlrz d]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

I guess we shall see what happens when we face those tough run defenses.

I think Willie will be fine.

[ikestops85]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

I know Willie will be fine against the tough Ds. It's the O line that has the problem with those defenses. No holes and I don't care what running back you have he ain't going anywhere.

[steelcityrules!!]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

I think a common misperception is our OL play. We have not had a bad OL for run blocking. At worst they have been average. They were poor at pass protection.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.

You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

...

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

...

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? ...

No, that's not what I believe, and that's not what I said. Your response made me think for a minute I was back on the steelerslive board on the trib where it's pretty normal to answer with a "You cannot be serious", and for good measure to throw in an , when disagreeing with what another poster posts (or in your case, what you for some reason believe they posted, not what they actually did post) .

My point was that many people are so focused on putting FWP down they don't look at the big picture - which includes O-line performance. I think he is a great back, we are incredibly lucky to have him, and that lots of things point to his having an even better year than the one he was heading towards last year. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

what I think medguy is trying to say, or did say and I'll just reiterate... is that when we face big, aggressive run defenses parker hits a wall. of course part of the equation is offensive line play, but as the battle becomes more even on the line against better run D's, we need a guy with the power to push the pile and turn 0, or 1 yard runs into 3.5-5 yard runs by a combination of hitting the hole AND pure power.

I don't have the stats, but i surely remember last weekend in the first few carries parker getting blanketed trying to hit the holes between the tackles. he got hit, and he went down. when we sustained some drives, the D-line weakened a bit and parker's speed exposed that slight loss of step, to the outside AND between the tackles.

to say willie sucks is blatant biased and outright ignorance... but to say he's the total package and a true "complete" back is far from reality.

Most RBs hit a wall against top run defenses. It is why they are tough run defense. Execeptions happen. How many teams have a RB that push a pile 3.5 to 5 yards every run? zero. Another myth.

People and this complete back thing is mostly a myth or overrated. How many complete backs are there in the league today? How many complete QBs are in the league? WRs? Olinemen? ect ect ect. My point being is people have unrealistic expectations out of players.

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? Part of his problem is patience, part vision, and part power. In the past he has relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game. While you might mention a safety being in the backfield...I can mention how many times I seen him run up the backside of one of his linemen. Missing holes is WPs fault not the lines.

In all honesty, both have been to blame and neither should be given a free pass. We didn't spend a first rounder on a running back because we were happy with our running game.

You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

Did I say Parker sucks? No. Do I think he needs to improve parts of his game. Yep. The fact that you guys believe he is the second coming of Walter Payton baffles me. Why does he get a free pass in your minds? Because he can run for 200+ yards against the Browns?

I like him as a complement back...not a feature back. Can he change my mind? I certainly hope so. I hope he can improve, run harder, run smarter, and run with more patience. Until then...I will stand by my thought that the Steelers drafted Mendenhall to be the feature back. And while some of you say I am asking for too much...welp the Steelers just found that well rounded back. He is fast, powerful, has natural rb instinct and has soft hands. Give the guy a season and he will run over top of this league.

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

...

When the D line or blitzing safety is in the backfield at about the same time the RB gets the handoff, it is hard for the RB to make good yardage. Seems obvious, but reading this thread I get the feeling that FWP is being blamed for the bad blocking up front.

Having said all that, it looks like FWP is stronger (mentally and physically) this year, he's got some help to keep his legs fresher, and (OMG) the O-line is looking hopeful (see performance against MN D-line as well). I hope, even believe, that our run game will be that much better this year - which means, HOLY COW, our passing game will improve too.

Prediction - as always, see sig below

...

You can't be serious. You believe WPs inside running woes are purely because of blocking? ...

No, that's not what I believe, and that's not what I said. Your response made me think for a minute I was back on the steelerslive board on the trib where it's pretty normal to answer with a "You cannot be serious", and for good measure to throw in an , when disagreeing with what another poster posts (or in your case, what you for some reason believe they posted, not what they actually did post) .

My point was that many people are so focused on putting FWP down they don't look at the big picture - which includes O-line performance. I think he is a great back, we are incredibly lucky to have him, and that lots of things point to his having an even better year than the one he was heading towards last year. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wish we had the ignore feature like the Trib.

[NKySteeler]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

FWIW.... Shawn, you did say earlier this year that Parker would be benched by week #5 I believe. (don't ask for a quote, because I'm not gonna go back and look for it).

...Now, that doesn't mean you "hate" Parker.... I also do not like the "three yds and a cloud of dust" without moving the chains... Parker did that alot last year. He was an "all or nothing" back last season. This year is too early to say, but I am also wary as you are... Basically, I don't give a crap as long as we win... Hell, I was complaining about our pass blocking last week. (and I still think it's an issue)....

Let's all join hands and sing "koombaya".... ...... At this point, it's a welcome issue to debate, IMO.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

You state, "in the past he had relied so heavily upon that break away speed that he neglected the more important parts of his game." This is an inaccurate statement. Parker has improve in every area of his game since his first season as a starter. That includes patience, vision, power, and pass protection. For whatever reason you do not like Parker. Regrardless of what you or anyone else thinks, Parker is a fine RB. One of the best in the league. That's one fact no one can dispute.

They drafted Mendenhall for the furture and to add depth to the RB position. By some people's statements of Parker I do not know how he managed to get any yards or TDs. People make it sound as if the guy stinks. Every RB has flaws or areas they need to work on. Every RB misses holes and gets tackled. Only one RB had more yards than Parker the 1st week of the season and zero had more TDs. Parker has been the real deal for years. Too bad you have not realized it.[/quote]

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

Did I say Parker sucks? No. Do I think he needs to improve parts of his game. Yep. The fact that you guys believe he is the second coming of Walter Payton baffles me. Why does he get a free pass in your minds? Because he can run for 200+ yards against the Browns?

I like him as a complement back...not a feature back. Can he change my mind? I certainly hope so. I hope he can improve, run harder, run smarter, and run with more patience. Until then...I will stand by my thought that the Steelers drafted Mendenhall to be the feature back. And while some of you say I am asking for too much...welp the Steelers just found that well rounded back. He is fast, powerful, has natural rb instinct and has soft hands. Give the guy a season and he will run over top of this league.[/quote]


Parkers proven he can be a feature back. If you are not sold on him by now you never will be. Time will tell if Mendenhall can be the RB most expect him to be.

[Shawn]

Re: It's official FWP still ..................

Incorrect...I said I wouldn't be surprised if Mendenhall is starting by week 6.

I get so sick of everytime I have something negative to say about a player it turns into Shawn hates Bettis or Shawn hates Parker. I don't hate Parker. I don't like his style of running. I don't like his home run or strike out running style. I believe an offense runs better when you have a guy can move the chains and gain the tough yards.

FWIW.... Shawn, you did say earlier this year that Parker would be benched by week #5 I believe. (don't ask for a quote, because I'm not gonna go back and look for it).

...Now, that doesn't mean you "hate" Parker.... I also do not like the "three yds and a cloud of dust" without moving the chains... Parker did that alot last year. He was an "all or nothing" back last season. This year is too early to say, but I am also wary as you are... Basically, I don't give a crap as long as we win... Hell, I was complaining about our pass blocking last week. (and I still think it's an issue)....

Let's all join hands and sing "koombaya".... ...... At this point, it's a welcome issue to debate, IMO.