Bowing out of the BA debate

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Listen here brother, before you start trying to slap a derogatory label on all those who have a negative viewpoint on Arians.

Reply:

You scorn me for making blanket assumptions about anti-Arians

People, people calm down with the race rhetoric.

I too am tired of this topic.

No need to be excessively pro-Arian (kinda Nazi)
No need to be anti-Arian (would that be anti-white?)

We are all Steeler brethren.

Wait...we are talking about a coach?
The spelling "Aryan" is different?

Nevermind

[fordfixer]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Bowing out of the BA debate

Quitter :P

[Djfan]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Bowing out of the BA debate

Quitter :P

That's the nicest thing you have ever called me.

[fordfixer]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Bowing out of the BA debate

Quitter :P

That's the nicest thing you have ever called me.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

There is a certain degree of irony when a thread titled "Bowing out of the BA debate" leads to yet another "Tastes Great...Less Filling" style "debate" between the two factions.

[AngryAsian]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

4. ....The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play....

Sorry, brother... I can't count how many plays where Tennessee stacked 8 in the box and there we go running right up the middle regardless. Often and frequent. Efficiency and execution has nothing to do with it. It sounds more like predictability and lack of imagination. Taking what the opposing defense gives you and making adjustments to achieve success. This is my beef with BA.

I'm one of your "sofa-coaches" but I sat Sunday sandwiched between two friends (*Pats fans) and I called every fruitless running play for two quarters before each snap. Not a stellar football acumen, but enough to recognize redundancy.

While I appreciate the sentiments of your comment , I was more referring to the run game as a whole the past few seasons and moving forward. Using the Titans game to support your argument doesn't exactly serve you well. We played both our 3rd and 4th string QB and every O-lilne body we had rotated like a turnstyle. Not exactly ideal circumstances for anyone to call plays. While the gameplan ended up being inefficient it did chew clock as apposed to incomplete passes. We also avoided the big turnover and exposing our only QB left on the roster to injury. I'd like to think the coaching staff recognized the fact that our D was dominating and a conservative approach was the best choice.

Don't get me wrong Asian , I've consistently said throughout this whole thread that BA is not perfect. He has room for improvement. But what I refuse to do is ignore the good he has done and completely write him off. I think Tomlin and the FO believe in continuity , BA knows the players , has had success and just like every other member of the organization, is working hard to improve every day.

In the end I do stand behind my statement that our run game as a whole has a lot more to do with execution than play calling. Hopefully both improve this year , and IMO they have. (Pouncey !!!)

Hope our differing views don't hurt my chances for hitting you up for a sweet sig someday !

Bro, my infrequent ability to post is an unfortunate testament to how busy work and homelife has been this past year. Compound that, with my MAC (which has all my graphic programs) not being serviceable since my computer room has been taken over by my four year old's toys... there are two posters in particular that I still owe sigs to and will one day come through if ever I get my MAC back... I'll just throw your request in at the #3 spot.

To get back to the topic... I think most who are taking the time to post on this very beaten down subject is of the mind that BA is serviceable... but not their first choice. Some will take the attitude "better than most" and some will shoot for loftier standards. As for the Titans game for support of my position, I used the latest example that came to mind.... and though the points are valid with regard to depth chart and various positions on our O... IMO, its not an excuse. A master tactician wins regardless. That's what he's paid to do. I might be alone in my position, but playing to the strengths of the players you've got available and maximizing a gameplan that yields you effective offensive production is exactly what he's paid to do. Having the ability to read what opposing defenses give him and adjusting your stratagem to still win the battle is his job.

Like DJfan, I pretty much stay out of these debates because as many have attested to, we will agree to disagree. I'm not a hater, I just want better results regardless of who is in our offensive line-up. I'd like to see better drawn out plans of attack, because if a lamen like myself can make calls prior to the snap and have them come to fruition... then that's predictability at its zenith. Did we chew up some clock? Absolutely, but we can't rely on a tenacious D to save our team every game. We will get a prime-time beatdown in weeks 8-10 when we play some pretty explosive offenses under the national tv spotlight.

I'd like imagination, consistency and effective outcomes when our offensive unit steps onto the field... just one fan's expectation of his beloved team. Peace to all my BA supporter brethren. We are divided in our various perspectives but still united under our Black and Gold banner.

[Oviedo]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

Sofa coach? Listen here brother, before you start trying to slap a derogatory label on all those who have a negative viewpoint on Arians, maybe you should understand the points being made. How about understanding the game of football for that matter? I'm not about to start making crazy accusations about my coaching ability or knowledge, compared to BA...there is no comparison. He's in the NFL and I watch the NFL...pretty well sums it up.

However, it's not your blanket insult concerning the intellect of those who have issues with BA that's got me riled up; it's your liberal and subjective use of the word "good". In your opinion BA may be good-but hey, I know some people who think liver tastes good. I'm sure there are lots of folks who believe polka music sounds good, Carrot Top looks good, and a swift kick in the nuts feels good.

I take your opinion that BA is a good OC in the same vein.

He may share a lot of attributes with a quality football coach, but he leaves a lot to be desired as an OC...that's my opinion. The opinion you have doesn't necessarily make you wrong; it just shows that you have a much higher tolerance for crap.

You scorn me for making blanket assumptions about anti-Arians (which by the way was not my point) supporters then do the same to me by saying , "How about understanding the game of football". Odd. And when did I "insult the intelligence" of those who have issues with BA. Simply put , I didn't.

I know enough about professional football to know that I don't know as much as the professionals. THAT , in it of itself is my point.

As far as my use of the word "good" , your right, sometimes good is subjective, other times it's not. When there is an established baseline of what is considered "good" in the NFL and you meet said criteria , therefore you are "good". And frankly , what you deem as good has no bearing on anything , it's what the owners and coaches deem as good that matters. And I trust them more than I trust you , or myself for that matter.

Does BA leave something to be desired at times , yes. Has he done plenty of good for the team as well , yes. Looking at it any other way is , well........WRONG.

Sometimes there is only one truth.

GO STEELERS !!!!

My bad…I didn’t realize “sofa coach” was intended as a compliment.

“I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.” pretty much comes off as an attack on everyone who is critical of BA-thus the blanket statement.

The comment about you understanding the game of football was a piggy-back on the previous sentence about understanding the points involved in the “debate”. My intention was that if you don’t understand the points of contention (not necessarily agree), then you simply don’t understand the game. Much of it is subjective and open to opinion; other points are far more damnable. There was no blanket statement. It was intended for you alone and indicted your understanding of the game only as far as your lack of understanding for our beef with Arians.

His employment status is a tenuous piece of evidence to hang your hat on by the way. By your logic, everyone is good until they are fired. I guess it will be cool to come back here WHEN Arians is fired and agree with us.
Did you expect for Tomlin to fire Arians after the first year? I even stated we should not.

Did you expect to can him the next year following the Super Bowl?

Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient running game because he likes the job BA is doing?

I don’t base my opinions on the actions of others. I trust my informed knowledge of the game and apply it to the things I see.

1. "Sofa Coach" was not intended as a compliment just as it was not intended as an
indictment of your intelligence. It was intended to drive home the point that you do
not know more than the coaches. Don't try and fit it into any other type of argument.

2. I understand the "beef" with Arians. I've read hundreds of posts detailing such.
I just don't agree with it all. Truth remains BA is neither "great" or "terrible". The TRUTH
lies somewhere in between.

3. I don't "hang my hat" on the argument that since BA is still employed by the Steelers
he must be a great coach. I do however "hang my hat" on the argument that if BA
was as bad as made to seem on this board then I fully trust the FO would of moved
on by now.

4. "Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient
running game because he likes the job BA is doing." - This is a terrible argument.
The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play. To make the assertion AR2 has a "problem" with BA
because he wants better efficiency in a certain area is just silly. Sometimes things
people say need to be taken at face value and not analyzed to death.

5. Trusting my knowledge of the game and applying it to what I see is about the only
point we agree on. I just think my knowledge of the game has more......let's say ,
"clarity , with a side of perspective."

6. Even though we disagree , your still my STEELER BROTHER Flasteel !!!

Good to see that some can articulate rational thought vewrsus just venting raw emotion or doing a cut and paste from previous comments over and over and over...

[ramblinjim]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Asian: "Peace to all my BA supporter brethren. We are divided in our various perspectives but still united under our Black and Gold banner."





Didn't we used to have a hands clapping smiley face?

[fordfixer]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Asian: "Peace to all my BA supporter brethren. We are divided in our various perspectives but still united under our Black and Gold banner."





Didn't we used to have a hands clapping smiley face?

You mean this one?

[ramblinjim]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Asian: "Peace to all my BA supporter brethren. We are divided in our various perspectives but still united under our Black and Gold banner."





Didn't we used to have a hands clapping smiley face?

You mean this one?

Oh yeah...now I see it. One of the guys that came over from Steelers Fever had one of a guy beating a dead horse. I thought that was hilarious.

[Djfan]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

There is a certain degree of irony when a thread titled "Bowing out of the BA debate" leads to yet another "Tastes Great...Less Filling" style "debate" between the two factions.

Do you know how close I was to starting a "Bowing out of the bowing out of the BA debate" thread?!?!?

BTW, Asian nailed this topic best.

[stlrz d]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

There is a certain degree of irony when a thread titled "Bowing out of the BA debate" leads to yet another "Tastes Great...Less Filling" style "debate" between the two factions.

Do you know how close I was to starting a "Bowing out of the bowing out of the BA debate" thread?!?!?

BTW, Asian nailed this topic best.

Yup.

[ramblinjim]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Maybe we should "sticky" a Bruce Arians rant thread of some sort and then throughout the season we could occasionally go there, go ape poop on ol' Bruce and then get back to our normal every day debate over Steelers football?

[SteelHead]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

4. ....The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play....

Sorry, brother... I can't count how many plays where Tennessee stacked 8 in the box and there we go running right up the middle regardless. Often and frequent. Efficiency and execution has nothing to do with it. It sounds more like predictability and lack of imagination. Taking what the opposing defense gives you and making adjustments to achieve success. This is my beef with BA.

I'm one of your "sofa-coaches" but I sat Sunday sandwiched between two friends (*Pats fans) and I called every fruitless running play for two quarters before each snap. Not a stellar football acumen, but enough to recognize redundancy.

While I appreciate the sentiments of your comment , I was more referring to the run game as a whole the past few seasons and moving forward. Using the Titans game to support your argument doesn't exactly serve you well. We played both our 3rd and 4th string QB and every O-lilne body we had rotated like a turnstyle. Not exactly ideal circumstances for anyone to call plays. While the gameplan ended up being inefficient it did chew clock as apposed to incomplete passes. We also avoided the big turnover and exposing our only QB left on the roster to injury. I'd like to think the coaching staff recognized the fact that our D was dominating and a conservative approach was the best choice.

Don't get me wrong Asian , I've consistently said throughout this whole thread that BA is not perfect. He has room for improvement. But what I refuse to do is ignore the good he has done and completely write him off. I think Tomlin and the FO believe in continuity , BA knows the players , has had success and just like every other member of the organization, is working hard to improve every day.

In the end I do stand behind my statement that our run game as a whole has a lot more to do with execution than play calling. Hopefully both improve this year , and IMO they have. (Pouncey !!!)

Hope our differing views don't hurt my chances for hitting you up for a sweet sig someday !

Bro, my infrequent ability to post is an unfortunate testament to how busy work and homelife has been this past year. Compound that, with my MAC (which has all my graphic programs) not being serviceable since my computer room has been taken over by my four year old's toys... there are two posters in particular that I still owe sigs to and will one day come through if ever I get my MAC back... I'll just throw your request in at the #3 spot.

To get back to the topic... I think most who are taking the time to post on this very beaten down subject is of the mind that BA is serviceable... but not their first choice. Some will take the attitude "better than most" and some will shoot for loftier standards. As for the Titans game for support of my position, I used the latest example that came to mind.... and though the points are valid with regard to depth chart and various positions on our O... IMO, its not an excuse. A master tactician wins regardless. That's what he's paid to do. I might be alone in my position, but playing to the strengths of the players you've got available and maximizing a gameplan that yields you effective offensive production is exactly what he's paid to do. Having the ability to read what opposing defenses give him and adjusting your stratagem to still win the battle is his job.

Like DJfan, I pretty much stay out of these debates because as many have attested to, we will agree to disagree. I'm not a hater, I just want better results regardless of who is in our offensive line-up. I'd like to see better drawn out plans of attack, because if a lamen like myself can make calls prior to the snap and have them come to fruition... then that's predictability at its zenith. Did we chew up some clock? Absolutely, but we can't rely on a tenacious D to save our team every game. We will get a prime-time beatdown in weeks 8-10 when we play some pretty explosive offenses under the national tv spotlight.

I'd like imagination, consistency and effective outcomes when our offensive unit steps onto the field... just one fan's expectation of his beloved team. Peace to all my BA supporter brethren. We are divided in our various perspectives but still united under our Black and Gold banner.

Thanks for the sig consideration.....I'll take the #3 spot. Now I just need an idea , lol.

Also, speaking of Apple products , I recently made the switch from Windows and bought a new iMac. I LOVE IT !

[steelblood]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

There are extreme views, but many here are closer than they want to admit. Many believe here believe that BA is in the average realm. Sometimes he is hard-headed. Some of his playcalling and play design is uninspired. Some of it is quite good. I think if we moved into a discussion about particular facets of the offense, we could have a very interesting dialogue.

For instance,

screen play design

or

running play design

Blanket statements about BA or a group of posters in general are usually short-sighted, unpleasant, and unsatisfying (intellectually).