Bowing out of the BA debate

[steelnavy]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

How many of those "average" coordinators have a quarterback like Ben at their disposal, who makes something spectacular happen AFTER a crappily designed play breaks down? How many teams have a spectacular qback and only perform at a mediocre level (I know of at least one!)

Without Ben to make him look good, Arians is even a WORSE coordinator, and he is ALREADY below average!

I will simplify this even more. If Arians can only eke out a 17th ranked performance WITH BEN, what do you think he would have done with Kordell, or Tommy or Jim Miller? In other words, Arians is below mediocre without Ben, which means HE SUCKS.

[proudpittsburgher]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Can we all please just get past the "If you knew anything about football, you would know you are wrong" line of thinking? What I get from most of the posts about Arians, are some people saying he doesn't suck, and he is on the good side of average. Very few defenders say he is an offensive genius. Those who think he is perfect are far from being right. Most admit that he has flaws in his playcalling, but he isn't nearly as bad as some make him out to be. Those on the other side tend to be a bit more vigilent in their thinking . . . he sucks, is the worst ever, and if you even come close to thinking otherwise, you, sir, are an idiot and are not even close to being alowed to share the same air as I do, me, of the high football intellect. There are no names to be placed on either side here, but it is pretty obvious to those who have been following. This board is a great place to debate our opinions about Steelers football, but it gets really old really fast when people start telling others their opinions are wrong, especially when they can't prove it.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

How many of those "average" coordinators have a quarterback like Ben at their disposal, who makes something spectacular happen AFTER a crappily designed play breaks down? How many teams have a spectacular qback and only perform at a mediocre level (I know of at least one!)

Without Ben to make him look good, Arians is even a WORSE coordinator, and he is ALREADY below average!

I will simplify this even more. If Arians can only eke out a 17th ranked performance WITH BEN, what do you think he would have done with Kordell, or Tommy or Jim Miller? In other words, Arians is below mediocre without Ben, which means HE SUCKS.

So BA is the only OC to benefit from a good to sometimes great QB? How good would Peyton without Brees? Some fans had a hard on for Whiz. How is Whiz making out without Warner? Manning and the Colts? Again, this league is mostly about how the players perform and execute.

Where are you getting that 17th ranked performance from? They were 12th in scoring offense at 23 points per game and 7th in total yards in 09. The short yardage rush offense needed some work. Appears they are headed in the right direction in that area. The red zone is another area that needed improvement. Only time will tell if they can improve in that area this season.

[SteelHead]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

Sofa coach? Listen here brother, before you start trying to slap a derogatory label on all those who have a negative viewpoint on Arians, maybe you should understand the points being made. How about understanding the game of football for that matter? I'm not about to start making crazy accusations about my coaching ability or knowledge, compared to BA...there is no comparison. He's in the NFL and I watch the NFL...pretty well sums it up.

However, it's not your blanket insult concerning the intellect of those who have issues with BA that's got me riled up; it's your liberal and subjective use of the word "good". In your opinion BA may be good-but hey, I know some people who think liver tastes good. I'm sure there are lots of folks who believe polka music sounds good, Carrot Top looks good, and a swift kick in the nuts feels good.

I take your opinion that BA is a good OC in the same vein.

He may share a lot of attributes with a quality football coach, but he leaves a lot to be desired as an OC...that's my opinion. The opinion you have doesn't necessarily make you wrong; it just shows that you have a much higher tolerance for crap.

You scorn me for making blanket assumptions about anti-Arians (which by the way was not my point) supporters then do the same to me by saying , "How about understanding the game of football". Odd. And when did I "insult the intelligence" of those who have issues with BA. Simply put , I didn't.

I know enough about professional football to know that I don't know as much as the professionals. THAT , in it of itself is my point.

As far as my use of the word "good" , your right, sometimes good is subjective, other times it's not. When there is an established baseline of what is considered "good" in the NFL and you meet said criteria , therefore you are "good". And frankly , what you deem as good has no bearing on anything , it's what the owners and coaches deem as good that matters. And I trust them more than I trust you , or myself for that matter.

Does BA leave something to be desired at times , yes. Has he done plenty of good for the team as well , yes. Looking at it any other way is , well........WRONG.

Sometimes there is only one truth.

GO STEELERS !!!!

My bad…I didn’t realize “sofa coach” was intended as a compliment.

“I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.” pretty much comes off as an attack on everyone who is critical of BA-thus the blanket statement.

The comment about you understanding the game of football was a piggy-back on the previous sentence about understanding the points involved in the “debate”. My intention was that if you don’t understand the points of contention (not necessarily agree), then you simply don’t understand the game. Much of it is subjective and open to opinion; other points are far more damnable. There was no blanket statement. It was intended for you alone and indicted your understanding of the game only as far as your lack of understanding for our beef with Arians.

His employment status is a tenuous piece of evidence to hang your hat on by the way. By your logic, everyone is good until they are fired. I guess it will be cool to come back here WHEN Arians is fired and agree with us.
Did you expect for Tomlin to fire Arians after the first year? I even stated we should not.

Did you expect to can him the next year following the Super Bowl?

Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient running game because he likes the job BA is doing?

I don’t base my opinions on the actions of others. I trust my informed knowledge of the game and apply it to the things I see.

1. "Sofa Coach" was not intended as a compliment just as it was not intended as an
indictment of your intelligence. It was intended to drive home the point that you do
not know more than the coaches. Don't try and fit it into any other type of argument.

2. I understand the "beef" with Arians. I've read hundreds of posts detailing such.
I just don't agree with it all. Truth remains BA is neither "great" or "terrible". The TRUTH
lies somewhere in between.

3. I don't "hang my hat" on the argument that since BA is still employed by the Steelers
he must be a great coach. I do however "hang my hat" on the argument that if BA
was as bad as made to seem on this board then I fully trust the FO would of moved
on by now.

4. "Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient
running game because he likes the job BA is doing." - This is a terrible argument.
The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play. To make the assertion AR2 has a "problem" with BA
because he wants better efficiency in a certain area is just silly. Sometimes things
people say need to be taken at face value and not analyzed to death.

5. Trusting my knowledge of the game and applying it to what I see is about the only
point we agree on. I just think my knowledge of the game has more......let's say ,
"clarity , with a side of perspective."

6. Even though we disagree , your still my STEELER BROTHER Flasteel !!!

[feltdizz]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

$$$$$ Steelhead

[steelnavy]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

How many of those "average" coordinators have a quarterback like Ben at their disposal, who makes something spectacular happen AFTER a crappily designed play breaks down? How many teams have a spectacular qback and only perform at a mediocre level (I know of at least one!)

Without Ben to make him look good, Arians is even a WORSE coordinator, and he is ALREADY below average!

I will simplify this even more. If Arians can only eke out a 17th ranked performance WITH BEN, what do you think he would have done with Kordell, or Tommy or Jim Miller? In other words, Arians is below mediocre without Ben, which means HE SUCKS.

So BA is the only OC to benefit from a good to sometimes great QB? How good would Peyton without Brees? Some fans had a hard on for Whiz. How is Whiz making out without Warner? Manning and the Colts? Again, this league is mostly about how the players perform and execute.

Where are you getting that 17th ranked performance from? They were 12th in scoring offense at 23 points per game and 7th in total yards in 09. The short yardage rush offense needed some work. Appears they are headed in the right direction in that area. The red zone is another area that needed improvement. Only time will tell if they can improve in that area this season.

Since you know where to find the stats, please tell us what the overall offensive ranking was for 2009. How good would Peyton be without Breeze you ask? Well at least WITH BREES HE IS GREAT. CANT SAY THE SAME ABOUT BA WITH BEN. BA + BEN = MEDIOCRE OFFENSIVE RANKING. What does that say about BA?

Cant wait to hear what your argument is when BA finally gets fired for being the suck butt that he is.

The Roonies are not going to put up with his mediocrity forever.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

How many of those "average" coordinators have a quarterback like Ben at their disposal, who makes something spectacular happen AFTER a crappily designed play breaks down? How many teams have a spectacular qback and only perform at a mediocre level (I know of at least one!)

Without Ben to make him look good, Arians is even a WORSE coordinator, and he is ALREADY below average!

I will simplify this even more. If Arians can only eke out a 17th ranked performance WITH BEN, what do you think he would have done with Kordell, or Tommy or Jim Miller? In other words, Arians is below mediocre without Ben, which means HE SUCKS.

So BA is the only OC to benefit from a good to sometimes great QB? How good would Peyton without Brees? Some fans had a hard on for Whiz. How is Whiz making out without Warner? Manning and the Colts? Again, this league is mostly about how the players perform and execute.

Where are you getting that 17th ranked performance from? They were 12th in scoring offense at 23 points per game and 7th in total yards in 09. The short yardage rush offense needed some work. Appears they are headed in the right direction in that area. The red zone is another area that needed improvement. Only time will tell if they can improve in that area this season.

Since you know where to find the stats, please tell us what the overall offensive ranking was for 2009. How good would Peyton be without Breeze you ask? Well at least WITH BREES HE IS GREAT. CANT SAY THE SAME ABOUT BA WITH BEN. BA + BEN = MEDIOCRE OFFENSIVE RANKING. What does that say about BA?

Cant wait to hear what your argument is when BA finally gets fired for being the suck butt that he is.

The Roonies are not going to put up with his mediocrity forever.

Overall offensive ranking for 2009 was 7th in yards and 12th in scoring offense.

When BA gets fired or replaced, there will be nothing to debate. That's the way the league is structured. It's a realistic possibility and can happen at any time. Just because that happens does not mean he was fired, "for being the suck butt that he is." What ever that means.

The organization takes a realistic approach as opposed to an extreme approach that some fans have. They realize that BA has done some good things with the offense. It's why the man has a job. They also realize that some areas need some work. It is the goal that they can improve on the good and bad.

[AngryAsian]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

4. ....The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play....

Sorry, brother... I can't count how many plays where Tennessee stacked 8 in the box and there we go running right up the middle regardless. Often and frequent. Efficiency and execution has nothing to do with it. It sounds more like predictability and lack of imagination. Taking what the opposing defense gives you and making adjustments to achieve success. This is my beef with BA.

I'm one of your "sofa-coaches" but I sat Sunday sandwiched between two friends (*Pats fans) and I called every fruitless running play for two quarters before each snap. Not a stellar football acumen, but enough to recognize redundancy.

[Flasteel]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

1st time for me chiming in on the whole "BA" saga. Until now I've been content to sit back and enjoy the endless moronic rhetoric leaning toward one extreme opinion of him to the other.

Here's the deal fellas , whether you like it or not , whether you agree or not....

Bruce Arians is a good OC. Is he Sean Payton ?....no , is he the worst OC in the league ? NO. He's somewhere in between.

Take off you crazed Steeler fan glasses , open your eyes and realize there are dozens of OC's all around the league that get criticized for this or that every single Sunday.

Does he need to improve in some key areas , hell yeah.....what OC doesn't need to constantly improve. Even the great ones who seemingly "always get it right" eventually have to switch things up to stay fresh and current.

I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.

Do you happen to get it right sometimes , yeah.......you spout enough stuff out and somethings bound to stick.

Tomlin and the Rooneys are employing the man for a reason.

Bruce Arians is a good OC.

Sofa coach? Listen here brother, before you start trying to slap a derogatory label on all those who have a negative viewpoint on Arians, maybe you should understand the points being made. How about understanding the game of football for that matter? I'm not about to start making crazy accusations about my coaching ability or knowledge, compared to BA...there is no comparison. He's in the NFL and I watch the NFL...pretty well sums it up.

However, it's not your blanket insult concerning the intellect of those who have issues with BA that's got me riled up; it's your liberal and subjective use of the word "good". In your opinion BA may be good-but hey, I know some people who think liver tastes good. I'm sure there are lots of folks who believe polka music sounds good, Carrot Top looks good, and a swift kick in the nuts feels good.

I take your opinion that BA is a good OC in the same vein.

He may share a lot of attributes with a quality football coach, but he leaves a lot to be desired as an OC...that's my opinion. The opinion you have doesn't necessarily make you wrong; it just shows that you have a much higher tolerance for crap.[/quote]

You scorn me for making blanket assumptions about anti-Arians (which by the way was not my point) supporters then do the same to me by saying , "How about understanding the game of football". Odd. And when did I "insult the intelligence" of those who have issues with BA. Simply put , I didn't.

I know enough about professional football to know that I don't know as much as the professionals. THAT , in it of itself is my point.

As far as my use of the word "good" , your right, sometimes good is subjective, other times it's not. When there is an established baseline of what is considered "good" in the NFL and you meet said criteria , therefore you are "good". And frankly , what you deem as good has no bearing on anything , it's what the owners and coaches deem as good that matters. And I trust them more than I trust you , or myself for that matter.

Does BA leave something to be desired at times , yes. Has he done plenty of good for the team as well , yes. Looking at it any other way is , well........WRONG.

Sometimes there is only one truth.

GO STEELERS !!!![/quote]

My bad…I didn’t realize “sofa coach” was intended as a compliment.

“I'm tired of all you "Sofa Coaches" who think you know better. YOU DON'T.” pretty much comes off as an attack on everyone who is critical of BA-thus the blanket statement.

The comment about you understanding the game of football was a piggy-back on the previous sentence about understanding the points involved in the “debate”. My intention was that if you don’t understand the points of contention (not necessarily agree), then you simply don’t understand the game. Much of it is subjective and open to opinion; other points are far more damnable. There was no blanket statement. It was intended for you alone and indicted your understanding of the game only as far as your lack of understanding for our beef with Arians.

His employment status is a tenuous piece of evidence to hang your hat on by the way. By your logic, everyone is good until they are fired. I guess it will be cool to come back here WHEN Arians is fired and agree with us.
Did you expect for Tomlin to fire Arians after the first year? I even stated we should not.

Did you expect to can him the next year following the Super Bowl?

Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient running game because he likes the job BA is doing?

I don’t base my opinions on the actions of others. I trust my informed knowledge of the game and apply it to the things I see.
[/quote]

1. "Sofa Coach" was not intended as a compliment just as it was not intended as an
indictment of your intelligence. It was intended to drive home the point that you do
not know more than the coaches. Don't try and fit it into any other type of argument.

2. I understand the "beef" with Arians. I've read hundreds of posts detailing such.
I just don't agree with it all. Truth remains BA is neither "great" or "terrible". The TRUTH
lies somewhere in between.

3. I don't "hang my hat" on the argument that since BA is still employed by the Steelers
he must be a great coach. I do however "hang my hat" on the argument that if BA
was as bad as made to seem on this board then I fully trust the FO would of moved
on by now.

4. "Do you think that AR2 came out and demanded we get back to a more efficient
running game because he likes the job BA is doing." - This is a terrible argument.
The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play. To make the assertion AR2 has a "problem" with BA
because he wants better efficiency in a certain area is just silly. Sometimes things
people say need to be taken at face value and not analyzed to death.

5. Trusting my knowledge of the game and applying it to what I see is about the only
point we agree on. I just think my knowledge of the game has more......let's say ,
"clarity , with a side of perspective."

6. Even though we disagree , your still my STEELER BROTHER Flasteel !!![/quote]

[Flasteel]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

$$$$$ Steelhead

[Flasteel]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

Overall offensive ranking for 2009 was 7th in yards and 12th in scoring offense.

When BA gets fired or replaced, there will be nothing to debate. That's the way the league is structured. It's a realistic possibility and can happen at any time. Just because that happens does not mean he was fired, "for being the suck butt that he is." What ever that means.

The organization takes a realistic approach as opposed to an extreme approach that some fans have. They realize that BA has done some good things with the offense. It's why the man has a job. They also realize that some areas need some work. It is the goal that they can improve on the good and bad.

[Flasteel]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

:P

[feltdizz]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

$$$$$ Steelhead

[SteelHead]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

4. ....The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play....

Sorry, brother... I can't count how many plays where Tennessee stacked 8 in the box and there we go running right up the middle regardless. Often and frequent. Efficiency and execution has nothing to do with it. It sounds more like predictability and lack of imagination. Taking what the opposing defense gives you and making adjustments to achieve success. This is my beef with BA.

I'm one of your "sofa-coaches" but I sat Sunday sandwiched between two friends (*Pats fans) and I called every fruitless running play for two quarters before each snap. Not a stellar football acumen, but enough to recognize redundancy.

While I appreciate the sentiments of your comment , I was more referring to the run game as a whole the past few seasons and moving forward. Using the Titans game to support your argument doesn't exactly serve you well. We played both our 3rd and 4th string QB and every O-lilne body we had rotated like a turnstyle. Not exactly ideal circumstances for anyone to call plays. While the gameplan ended up being inefficient it did chew clock as apposed to incomplete passes. We also avoided the big turnover and exposing our only QB left on the roster to injury. I'd like to think the coaching staff recognized the fact that our D was dominating and a conservative approach was the best choice.

Don't get me wrong Asian , I've consistently said throughout this whole thread that BA is not perfect. He has room for improvement. But what I refuse to do is ignore the good he has done and completely write him off. I think Tomlin and the FO believe in continuity , BA knows the players , has had success and just like every other member of the organization, is working hard to improve every day.

In the end I do stand behind my statement that our run game as a whole has a lot more to do with execution than play calling. Hopefully both improve this year , and IMO they have. (Pouncey !!!)

Hope our differing views don't hurt my chances for hitting you up for a sweet sig someday !

[stlrz d]

Re: Bowing out of the BA debate

4. ....The "efficiency" of the running game has a lot more to do with the players executing
than the guy calling the play....

Sorry, brother... I can't count how many plays where Tennessee stacked 8 in the box and there we go running right up the middle regardless. Often and frequent. Efficiency and execution has nothing to do with it. It sounds more like predictability and lack of imagination. Taking what the opposing defense gives you and making adjustments to achieve success. This is my beef with BA.

I'm one of your "sofa-coaches" but I sat Sunday sandwiched between two friends (*Pats fans) and I called every fruitless running play for two quarters before each snap. Not a stellar football acumen, but enough to recognize redundancy.

QFT