The Bus nominated for HOF

[aggiebones]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

Don't forget that Ward isn't retired yet.
There is a decent list of WRs waiting, but likely one or both of those mentioned gets in before he even retires. He also has to wait 5 years, so those guys will be out of his way by then.
Art Monk took forever. Irvin got in WAAAY to fast.
It would also be good for Dawson and Bettis to get out of his way in line by getting in before he is eligible. They aren't going to put in a Steeler every year. It would be nice for Dawson to go NOW, then Bettis in a couple years about the time Ward retires.That would be a nice 5 year buffer before he's eligible. And no way does Hines go in on first ballot obviously. Hopefully its only a 5-7 year wait.

[Slapstick]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

And no way does Hines go in on first ballot obviously. Hopefully its only a 5-7 year wait.

Why is it so obvious?

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

And no way does Hines go in on first ballot obviously. Hopefully its only a 5-7 year wait.

Why is it so obvious?

History.
Tell me how many receivers who have "NEVER" been 1st team all-pro or have "all-time NFL records" (not team records) get in on the first ballot?

It is "obvious" that "if" he gets in it wont be right away.

We have a 6-time all pro who didnt get in after several years. The undisputed best at his position for 6-seasons. Arguably the best center EVER.

At no point in his career would non-Steeler fans call Hines the best in the NFL for ONE SEASON.

[Sugar]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

And no way does Hines go in on first ballot obviously. Hopefully its only a 5-7 year wait.

Why is it so obvious?

I don't think it's obvious either. The man has more TD's, Yards, etc than two other Steelers that are already in. He also has a SB MVP, which is some major bling. On top of that, he's known as the best blocking WR in the game and one of the toughest ever. You don't have to have homer glasses on think that Hines may indeed be a first ballot guy.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

And no way does Hines go in on first ballot obviously. Hopefully its only a 5-7 year wait.

Why is it so obvious?

I don't think it's obvious either. The man has more TD's, Yards, etc than two other Steelers that are already in. He also has a SB MVP, which is some major bling. On top of that, he's known as the best blocking WR in the game and one of the toughest ever. You don't have to have homer glasses on think that Hines may indeed be a first ballot guy.

"Team" records mean nothing, when it comes to the HOF.

Earl Campbell HOF shoe in
Oiler/Titan franchise record holder Eddie George still waiting.

Did George deserve to be 1st ballot more than Campbell?

What of Wards SB MVP? Was he really all that outstanding? Nobody was all that great.
Stonio was much more impressive in the last SB.

Swanny had the most amazing SB display at receiver to date when he won MVP. He was considered "the best" at that time

Stallworth was NEVER MVP but MUCH better and more memorable in SBs than Hines. The last SB versus the RAMS Stallworth was ridiculous. He was considered "the best" during the late 70s into the early 80s.

Hines plays at a consistently high level over a very long time. He is without peer as a blocker. "Great" does not require giant career numbers (Swann, Campbell, Sayers). But you gotta have "elite" career numbers (Largent) if you are just "very good" over a long career. Even then you might hve to wait (Monk).

[Dee Dub]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

I'm still of the belief that no other players should be put in the HOF until Dirt Dawson gets his day. When you've been retired for as many years as he has and you're still considered (or, at least in the discussion) as the best at your position ever, no other player should be inducted until Dawson is inducted.

A player is a player regardless of position and Dawson is mentioned as GOAT at center a lot. How can you induct a player that isn't even in the discussion as the GOAT at his position before a player that is?

Pappy

I feel ya about Dirt but did you know there is another former Steeler player who is more deserving than Dawson who also isnt in the Hall of Fame??

Yep. Donnie Shell

He is in the top 5 at his position (SS), in most every defensive category.

51 career INT's, 19 career fumble recoveries, 4 Super Bowl rings, 5 time pro bowler

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

I'm still of the belief that no other players should be put in the HOF until Dirt Dawson gets his day. When you've been retired for as many years as he has and you're still considered (or, at least in the discussion) as the best at your position ever, no other player should be inducted until Dawson is inducted.

A player is a player regardless of position and Dawson is mentioned as GOAT at center a lot. How can you induct a player that isn't even in the discussion as the GOAT at his position before a player that is?

Pappy

I feel ya about Dirt but did you know there is another former Steeler player who is more deserving than Dawson who also isnt in the Hall of Fame??

Yep. Donnie Shell

He is in the top 5 at his position (SS), in most every defensive category.

51 career INT's, 19 career fumble recoveries, 4 Super Bowl rings, 5 time pro bowler

Shell is deserving true.
But I Dawson is to centers what Ronnie Lott is to safeties

[Slapstick]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

"Team" records mean nothing, when it comes to the HOF.

Earl Campbell HOF shoe in
Oiler/Titan franchise record holder Eddie George still waiting.

Did George deserve to be 1st ballot more than Campbell?

What of Wards SB MVP? Was he really all that outstanding? Nobody was all that great.
Stonio was much more impressive in the last SB.

Swanny had the most amazing SB display at receiver to date when he won MVP. He was considered "the best" at that time

Stallworth was NEVER MVP but MUCH better and more memorable in SBs than Hines. The last SB versus the RAMS Stallworth was ridiculous. He was considered "the best" during the late 70s into the early 80s.

Hines plays at a consistently high level over a very long time. He is without peer as a blocker. "Great" does not require giant career numbers (Swann, Campbell, Sayers). But you gotta have "elite" career numbers (Largent) if you are just "very good" over a long career. Even then you might hve to wait (Monk).

But, I'm not referring to just SB performances...

I would argue that, not only does Hines have "elite" status statistically, but he is also one of the best and most consistent "big game" WRs in the history of the NFL...

In the postseason, Hines has comparable stats to both Swann and Stallworth, yet has played in fewer postseason games...he actually boasts a slightly better postseason career than Monk...

While it would not shock me if Hines isn't a first ballot HoFer, I don't think it's "obvious"...

Truthfully, at this point, there is nothing that the HoF voters do that shocks me anymore...

[ramblinjim]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

Slapstick:

While it would not shock me if Hines isn't a first ballot HoFer, I don't think it's "obvious"...

Truthfully, at this point, there is nothing that the HoF voters do that shocks me anymore...




Yeah, I can't figure some things about HOF either. I know I'm a homer but Jerome Bettis, in my eyes, has the credentials to be a very early ballot Hall of Famer. 5th in Rushing? One of the best at his position for almost 10 years? Some SB Bling? In the words of ESPN "Come on Man...."

Dermotti Dawson? Donnie Shell? Really? I know Shell gets some "Hatin'" because of the teams he played on but he was a stud back there at Safety for a freakin' Decade.

Ok, Homer glasses come off.

[ikestops85]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

Slapstick:

While it would not shock me if Hines isn't a first ballot HoFer, I don't think it's "obvious"...

Truthfully, at this point, there is nothing that the HoF voters do that shocks me anymore...




Yeah, I can't figure some things about HOF either. I know I'm a homer but Jerome Bettis, in my eyes, has the credentials to be a very early ballot Hall of Famer. 5th in Rushing? One of the best at his position for almost 10 years? Some SB Bling? In the words of ESPN "Come on Man...."

Dermotti Dawson? Donnie Shell? Really? I know Shell gets some "Hatin'" because of the teams he played on but he was a stud back there at Safety for a freakin' Decade.

Ok, Homer glasses come off.

Yeah, Donnie Shell was "The Man" back in the day. His hit on Earl Campbell at the goal line is still shown on ESPN. The amazing part was he was never drafted and that was back in the days that the draft went on forever. He retired with the most career interceptions for a safety and was a 4 time All-Pro. I always loved that guy.

[Dee Dub]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

[quote=Captain Lemming]

I'm still of the belief that no other players should be put in the HOF until Dirt Dawson gets his day. When you've been retired for as many years as he has and you're still considered (or, at least in the discussion) as the best at your position ever, no other player should be inducted until Dawson is inducted.

A player is a player regardless of position and Dawson is mentioned as GOAT at center a lot. How can you induct a player that isn't even in the discussion as the GOAT at his position before a player that is?

Pappy

I feel ya about Dirt but did you know there is another former Steeler player who is more deserving than Dawson who also isnt in the Hall of Fame??

Yep. Donnie Shell

He is in the top 5 at his position (SS), in most every defensive category.

51 career INT's, 19 career fumble recoveries, 4 Super Bowl rings, 5 time pro bowler

Shell is deserving true.
But I Dawson is to centers what Ronnie Lott is to safeties[/quote:13ghozx2]

Donnie Shell was the best SS of his era (‘70’s). And when Ronnie Lott came in (’81), he wasn’t a SS…he was a CB. And having said that, Lott is truly the greatest SS ever, but in my opinion Donnie Shell is right behind him at #2.

..and in my opinion, Mike Webster is #1 and Dermonti Dawson is #2. So Shell and Dawson aren’t as far apart as you imply.

[Captain Lemming]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

Donnie Shell was the best SS of his era (‘70’s). And when Ronnie Lott came in (’81), he wasn’t a SS…he was a CB. And having said that, Lott is truly the greatest SS ever, but in my opinion Donnie Shell is right behind him at #2.

..and in my opinion, Mike Webster is #1 and Dermonti Dawson is #2. So Shell and Dawson aren’t as far apart as you imply.

Come on now Donnie Shell number two all time?
Right now there is at least one strong safety that is "Head and Shoulders" above Shell.
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Yes, I agree, Webster is better than Dawson....in reputation ONLY!!!!

By no measure was Webster better than Dawson.

Dawson did everything Webster did and more. Dawson did things Webster (or any other center for that matter) simply was incapable of doing.

PLUEEZZE dont talk about rings 'cause Hartwig has one and all he did was give THE CARDINALS two points and the ball in the SB because of the safety he caused.

Webster did what you expect of a center better than anybody up to his time.

Bigger stronger faster, Dawson revolutionized the position, and did things a center was never expected to do.

When the kid Pouncey blocks his man and consistently gets downfield to get another, people are reminder of ONE GUY. Dawson.

When Pouncey can get 30 yards downfield and take out a safety having already left a lineman and a linebacker in his wake, the comparison will be justified.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: The Bus nominated for HOF

I like that we can have a legit argument about where a current Steeler great like Troy Polamalu stacks up with other great Steelers safeties of the past like Donnie Shell and Carnell Lake.

As our new center gains more experience and has more success, I look forward to being about compare Maurkice Pouncey to great Steeler centers like Mike Webster and Dermontti Dawson at some point in the future.