Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

[NKySteeler]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

Wallace will be a major factor this season without a doubt.... But if Ward goes down, he's gonna be double-teamed....

We know that Ward will possibly go down at some point, so if that is the case....

Who steps up? Who will cover the rock?....

Battle?... Miller?... ARE?.... Who?...

[Captain Lemming]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

Throws an accurate deep ball.

Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.

[stlrz d]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

Throws an accurate deep ball.

[quote:20ex060c]Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.[/quote:20ex060c]

Sure you can. It's simple physics. Ben has to throw the ball at point X in time in order to hit a WR at point Y in stride. If he throws the ball a split second after point X in time then he is still throwing the ball the same distance he would have been throwing it before but the timing is off.

Most people seem to think that QBs throwing deep passes means they are throwing them 60, 70 or more yards through the air. The reality is most deep passes are really 30 to 50 yards through the air. It's incredibly difficult to hit a moving target beyond that range for any QB. If a QB can throw a ball to a deep stationary spot and hit it every time then he's accurate. If he has the timing of a WR down then he can still throw to that same spot and hit the WR in stride. If the ball is thrown a bit late then forget about it.

So if the timing is correct (meaning Ben is throwing it at point X in time) then he is hitting the WR in stride.

Last year when people saw Wallace coming back for passes their thought was that Ben had a lack of arm strength to get it to Wallace in stride. Ben has plenty of arm strength and plenty of zip on the ball (see that laser pass to Wallace against the Packers as just one example) to be able to get it to his WRs in stride. What he sometimes lacks is the timing to do that. He needs to trust that his WRs will get open and let the ball go at point X in time because even a split second after that and it's too late.

Ever see QBs throw out routes before the WR makes their break? That's trust. You don't see Ben throw out routes before the WR makes the break. One reason is because he doesn't appear to trust that they'll get open. The other reason is that he has a strong enough arm that he can see the WR make the break and still get the ball there. But deep passes are a different matter. Every NFL QB can throw the ball far enough to hit the deep ball...but if the timing isn't there it doesn't matter.

[frankthetank1]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

[steelblitz]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

I was thinking the same thing, then I just figured he was being facetious.

[Oviedo]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.

[steelblitz]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

[url="http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_691596.html"]http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 91596.html[/url]

Seems like Dixon and his agent feel the same way.

Sorry, didn't notice the other thread.

[steelblitz]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.

Your absolutely right, and there's a reason for that. Part of that has to do with the FACT that the team has always done a great job in finding that diamond in the slew of UDFAs. So the fans expect it, just not on the O-line recently. And even then there's Legs.

[cruzer8]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

I'm very torn on the issue. There is something warm and comfy about Lefty as the starter. He has had good success in our system. He is a guy who knows how to win...been there done that kinda guy. The big games won't rattle him. Dixon has all the talent to be a very good NFL QB but is he ready to handle 4 games of a season? If he was...he would be starting. I have to trust Tomlin's feel of the situation as he is closer to the talent and gets to see them every day.

What talent does he really have? I mean, his greatest skill probably is his good-for-a-QB speed (i.e. I don't think he runs like Kordell). He really is a poorman's Kordell IMO. He can't throw like Kordell, he can't run like Kordell, (at this point) he can't pass like Kordell... I mean, in that Raven game, we essentially played with them with no one at QB (I know, he may a couple good plays).

have you seen dixon play besides the raven game last season? i wouldnt say his best skill is his speed. he has a cannon for an arm. he has a much better arm then kordell did. i would also say he is a smarter qb than kordell because kordell was one of the worst qb's when it came to reading a defense and making decisions.

I haven't seen enough evidence of that yet. Too small of a samle size.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

Since when hasn't it become customary for Steelers fans to sing the virtues of "one game wonders" or pre-season heroes (see Isac Redman). It is almost a holy obligation every summer to find the next underdog who gives a glimmer of overachievement and make him the next savior of the franchise.


Call it the Rocky Blier-effect. Many fans go into the season hoping to see the next Rudy.

Your absolutely right, and there's a reason for that. Part of that has to do with the FACT that the team has always done a great job in finding that diamond in the slew of UDFAs. So the fans expect it, just not on the O-line recently. And even then there's Legs.

We've had a decent amount of UDFA's on the o-line. In addition to Legursky now, Darnell Stapleton was a UDFA who became a starter. Keydrick Vincent carved out a decent NFL career for himself...he started as a UDFA for us. We've had a few other guys that provided depth for a while, like Jason Capizzi.

[cruzer8]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

[quote=stlrz d]

Throws an accurate deep ball.

[quote2isxjp]Doesn't have the timing to hit open receivers in stride early in the play.

The second statement cannot be talking about deep passes or else the statements are in direct contradiction.

You by definition cannot be an accurate deep passer without timing.

A QB might be such an accurate deep passer that he can hit a stationary "fly" on a goalpost from the 50 yard line, but without "timing" you cannot be accurate at hitting a receiver on a "fly" pattern.

Last year you kept calling it "timing" not accuracy. When the target is moving at high speed, you cannot have one without the other.[/quote2isxjp]

Sure you can. It's simple physics. Ben has to throw the ball at point X in time in order to hit a WR at point Y in stride. If he throws the ball a split second after point X in time then he is still throwing the ball the same distance he would have been throwing it before but the timing is off.

Most people seem to think that QBs throwing deep passes means they are throwing them 60, 70 or more yards through the air. The reality is most deep passes are really 30 to 50 yards through the air. It's incredibly difficult to hit a moving target beyond that range for any QB. If a QB can throw a ball to a deep stationary spot and hit it every time then he's accurate. If he has the timing of a WR down then he can still throw to that same spot and hit the WR in stride. If the ball is thrown a bit late then forget about it.

So if the timing is correct (meaning Ben is throwing it at point X in time) then he is hitting the WR in stride.

Last year when people saw Wallace coming back for passes their thought was that Ben had a lack of arm strength to get it to Wallace in stride. Ben has plenty of arm strength and plenty of zip on the ball (see that laser pass to Wallace against the Packers as just one example) to be able to get it to his WRs in stride. What he sometimes lacks is the timing to do that. He needs to trust that his WRs will get open and let the ball go at point X in time because even a split second after that and it's too late.

Ever see QBs throw out routes before the WR makes their break? That's trust. You don't see Ben throw out routes before the WR makes the break. One reason is because he doesn't appear to trust that they'll get open. The other reason is that he has a strong enough arm that he can see the WR make the break and still get the ball there. But deep passes are a different matter. Every NFL QB can throw the ball far enough to hit the deep ball...but if the timing isn't there it doesn't matter.[/quote2isxjp]

True that. Many of Ben's picks come on out routes because he waits to see the receiver make the break before throwing the ball. Good corners get a jump on those.

[feltdizz]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

[cruzer8]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

Who says it's not a problem? What we are discussing is the nature of the problem. There is a difference between a QB having a week arm and not being able to throw it far enough and a QB with a timing issue. A timing issue can be fixed. A weak arm not so much. Ben doesn't have a weak arm.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

Who says it's not a problem? What we are discussing is the nature of the problem. There is a difference between a QB having a week arm and not being able to throw it far enough and a QB with a timing issue. A timing issue can be fixed. A weak arm not so much. Ben doesn't have a weak arm.

Who says a weak arm can't be fixed?

[ANPSTEEL]

Re: Lefty over Dixon is one of NFL’s worst offseason moves

If Wallace is open and he has to wait or come back its a problem. I don't care how far Ben can throw. If its not on time its a problem. Hopefully it gets fixed and we see a bunch of TD's.

When a sure 6 turns into Wallace playing defender because the ball is thrown too late its a problem.

Hopefully he puts it up earlier this year.

I probably missed a better quote to make this point on-

but

IMO, Ben's issue is not arm strength, or timing.

His issue is with his mechanics / throwing motion.

We all know Ben runs around like a nut, trying to create plays- but what really causes his "too late" deep ball- is his constant double clutch/pump fake- on deep throws.

He seemingly began to develop this habit as a way to freeze/move the safety - and subsequently appears to not trust his judgment (I'm sure every safety in the league has been told "don't commit on his first motion")-

anyway- we can only hope he has been working to stop this habit. But that would also require him learning to actually trust in the play as called.