Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

[SteelAbility]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

I respect your opinion but BEN is NOT the major reason for those trophies. The Defense and running game are. Sorry

In that case, the Steelers should have about 5 more Super Bowls when Bettis was in his prime and the Defense was dominant.

All I see is the two with Ben at QB.


When have the Running game and Defense not been good?

Another point that's been conveniently ignored. We had dominant Ds through most of the 90s and VERY GOOD running games and still came out with no titles ... until Ben came along.

If I recall correctly, in SB XXX, our D was absolutely kicking @$$ in the 2nd half and who blew that game? Oh, yeah, the QB with not one but two big INTs in the 2nd half.

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

You mean the D that SCORED A TD and held Warner to 7 points for three quarters. While the offense putt putted all game? Of course in the 4th they were tired. Ben threw a pass that he admittedly thought was a int. That to me is LUCK. Santonio Holmes was the star of that drive. Hence the MVP. What was Ben doing prior to the 4th quarter. Do explain. Because if Ben plays the whole game like he played the 4th we blow them out.

I have SB 40. Please point out EASY DROPS and I will look for them. How about that PUNT that Ben threw to Hines? Where Hines had to stop, wave his arm to signal the fair catch, then catch it. How about that horrible int that Ben threw in the redzone? Dismissed the 3 games? I certainly did not. I mentioned it at least twice. Had we lost SB 40 would the 3 games matter? No sir. Just like the 15-1 season didnt matter after the AFCCG of 04.

Ben threw the pass to Hines, right? After escaping pressure and waiting for Hines to come open (SB XL). In XLIII, Ben threw a PERFECT pass to Santonio on the previous play that he let go straight through his hands. Then he followed that up with an even more unbelievable pass in the corner of the EZ to win it. They WON SB XL. You keep speaking in what if's. Try looking at his body of work instead of pointing out his flaws or even attributing his memorable plays to luck. Luck? Really?

WHY did Sabol call the CATCH the BEST IN SB HISTORY and not the PASS? Do tell?

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

I respect your opinion but BEN is NOT the major reason for those trophies. The Defense and running game are. Sorry

In that case, the Steelers should have about 5 more Super Bowls when Bettis was in his prime and the Defense was dominant.

All I see is the two with Ben at QB.


When have the Running game and Defense not been good?

Another point that's been conveniently ignored. We had dominant Ds through most of the 90s and VERY GOOD running games and still came out with no titles ... until Ben came along.

If I recall correctly, in SB XXX, our D was absolutely kicking @$$ in the 2nd half and who blew that game? Oh, yeah, the QB with not one but two big INTs in the 2nd half.

Only because we were playing the potent Cowboys. Had we been playing a team of that caliber in SB40 we lose then too. We are just fortunate that we were playing the Seachickens. Odonnell had a higher rating in SB 30 than Ben did in 40. FACT.

[NW Steeler]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Sorry, but that is what I thought you were saying in this post:

Ben is NOT our team leader. STOP THAT. Hines and Polamalu are. They exemplify professionalism to the highest degree and they perform on the field. I think Leftwich will start and should. Dixon is not ready. I think Lefty made Ben fans NERVOUS when he was here. Ben fans don't want to see him start and do well, it could mean bad things for Ben. If that happens, I dont rule out the fact that the Steeler brass trade Ben. After the suspension is lifted, his value will go up and we could make a killing and get rid of the cancer all at once. Ben fans will HATE this idea but STEELER fans will think it's smart.

I guess you don't really say it. I took it as you implying that Lefty could replace Ben, permanently and we would be better off. I strongly disagree with that thought, but that is my opinion. I am a Steeler fan, but I am also a fan of Ben as our QB. If I felt we had a better chance to win with someones else under center, then I'd be all for it.

[NW Steeler]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

You mean the D that SCORED A TD and held Warner to 7 points for three quarters. While the offense putt putted all game? Of course in the 4th they were tired. Ben threw a pass that he admittedly thought was a int. That to me is LUCK. Santonio Holmes was the star of that drive. Hence the MVP. What was Ben doing prior to the 4th quarter. Do explain. Because if Ben plays the whole game like he played the 4th we blow them out.

I have SB 40. Please point out EASY DROPS and I will look for them. How about that PUNT that Ben threw to Hines? Where Hines had to stop, wave his arm to signal the fair catch, then catch it. How about that horrible int that Ben threw in the redzone? Dismissed the 3 games? I certainly did not. I mentioned it at least twice. Had we lost SB 40 would the 3 games matter? No sir. Just like the 15-1 season didnt matter after the AFCCG of 04.

Ben threw the pass to Hines, right? After escaping pressure and waiting for Hines to come open (SB XL). In XLIII, Ben threw a PERFECT pass to Santonio on the previous play that he let go straight through his hands. Then he followed that up with an even more unbelievable pass in the corner of the EZ to win it. They WON SB XL. You keep speaking in what if's. Try looking at his body of work instead of pointing out his flaws or even attributing his memorable plays to luck. Luck? Really?

WHY did Sabol call the CATCH the BEST IN SB HISTORY and not the PASS? Do tell?

WTF does that have to do with anything? Tone dropped an easier pass on the previous play! Ben should have been the MVP of XLIII, not Santonio. Using your logic, "what if Santonio had not caught the game winning pass?" What then? Is it Ben's fault? Jeezus....

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

HHM,

Dude you're just on here to show everyone what an argumentation b*d*ss you are. The truth is your arguments look at ONE side of the coin, ignore game dynamics and opponent preparation (the simplest explanation for why Leftwich "outplayed" Ben - i.e. the opponents prepared for Ben, then got thrown for a loop when Leftwich came in and their gameplan suddenly broke down because he has a completely different set of tendencies - IF they had prepared first for Lefty, then Ben would have smoked them coming in off the bench). No QB has a great game every time and if you wen't by a game or two, Sean Salisbury can be made out to be worthy of the HOF. Likewise, Emmit Smith can be made out to wannabe cast-off.

You take the downsides of Ben and you cast them under a microscope to make them look huge. You take the upsides and cast them from a telescope view to make them look minimal. Your argumentation in fact sucks as it completely ignores the upsides. It's all about strong-arming to make your assumptions look fair and balanced.

Look at the Os playoff performance under Ben ...

- 8-2 W/L record
- 26.5 ppg (compare to Peyton Manning at 21.5 ppg) Need I remind you of the perfect pass dropped by Sweed in the 08 AFCCG? There, another 0.7 ppg (realistically bringing it to 27.2 ppg - AGAINST PLAYOFF QUALITY D)
- NEVER scored under 21 in a game
- In the two losses, scored 27 and 29 respectively (the 29 was due to a point at which they went for 2 and missed (due to a very questionable Ward holding call) then went for 2 again and missed - normally would have been a 31 point performance) SO DON'T SAY IT WAS ALL DEFENSE. THAT'S BS. In the other loss the D gave up 34 points. Ben had the pick-6, yes, no argument there.
- Need I remind you of the absolute clutch performance with 1st and 20 at our own 10 in SB43?


We all know that many of Ben's sacks are because he looks for plays whereas other QBs are willing to throw it away. But many of them are due to very poor OL blocking. TV analysts/experts have talked about the poor pass-blocking at length. These are the things you just conveniently ignore in your arguments. You focus solely on the heads side of the coin. Yes, those are facts, but for every one of those there's 4 or 5 great plays made by Ben.

Oh here we go with the PREDICTABLE "The team prepared for Ben and not Leftwich" argument. Allow me to eat that up with the following scenario. The Cowboys are playing the Eagles and Mcnabb gets injured. Kolb comes in and leads the Eagles to victory. After the game Jerry Jones approaches Wade Phillips and asks "How come we couldn't stop the backup?" Wade Phillips "Well Jerry we only prepared for Mcnabb we didnt prepare for Kolb" How LONG do you think said coach will be the coach? You dont make it to the PROFESSIONAL level by not preparing for all situations.
Sorry, I didnt go by " a game or two" I listed EVERY game of Ben's career vs a GOOD DEFENSE And Ben's stats were garbage. Did you miss that post? Of course you did.
Ben has a better TEAM than Manning. IF Manning was on the Steelers WITH Ben, WHO is the starter? Who was the MVP this season? Who has MORE MVPS? I can do the same with Ike Taylor vs Champ Bailey. Ike has won more playoff games, has more rings BUT WHO IS BETTER? Ike just happens to be on a better team. Max Starks has 2 rings and more wins than Joe Thomas but IS HE BETTER? No, he is just fortunate to be on a better team. WHAT expert says "Ben Roethlisberger is better than Manning?" ZERO. Or Brady or Brees or Warner or Favre. They just don't say that.
If the OLine blocks poorly then WHY do the sacks disappear when Leftwich is in the game? Batch (31 passes in 07 vs the Ravens and ZERO sacks). Chiefs line was killing Ben/Batch comes in cold and throws two passes and the line is no problem (small sample size but my point is he makes his read and gets the ball out) Ben doesnt. Dixon was greener than a pool table, came in vs the Ravens and ZERO SACKS. If you want to say "They had max protections on for Dixon" etc. I can refute that. I have the game recorded. I have diagramed EVERY pass and that NOT the case at all. The sacks are on Ben. WATCH, they wont be a problem in the 4 games he misses GUARANTEED. Of course I focus on the Cons of Bens game, isnt that what I'm presenting? WOW

Genius, debunking my argument with a hypothetical conversation. Are you F-ing kidding me!!?? You have one week to prepare for an opponent (unless you're coming off the bye). YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME AND RESOURCES TO GO AROUND. What percentage of your preparation and effort is going to be spent on the regular starter versus the backup. Well, IF YOU ARE SMART, you will play the probabilities and spend the vast majority of your preparation and effort on the starter. Therefore the predicatability argument is completely valid. But I guess your hypothetical mental conversations supercede probability and logic.

What happens if the Cowboys put equal preparation into McNabb and Kolb, then McNabb DOESN'T get hurt and all the preparation that could have been put into McNabb (but was put into Kolb because some idiot couldn't do simple probability analysis) leads to the Cowboys losing. Then the conversation goes like this ...

"Why weren't we prepared for McNabb."
"Well, because McNabb could have gone down and so, preparing for all situations we split our preparation between Mcabb and Kolb 50/50"

How long do you think a guy's job will last when he takes a 95/5 prorposition and treats it as 50/50?

Again, you're twisting the logic and looking at things one-sided.

As far as Dixon vs. the Ravens, in case you didn't notice Dixon hardly threw at all. Our starter was out and we simply couldn't afford for the backup to go down with a hit (because, you know, maybe the starter won't be ready for the NEXT game and wer'e down to our 3rd with absolutely no backup). The prime directive in that game was to keep Dixon injury-free. Good grief. You're twisting things out of context and playing one side of things is just ridiculous.

Hypothetical? You mean like YOU assuming that the DC didnt prepare for the backup? I just made you look like the ignoramous that you are and will continue to do so whenever you oppose me.
Present your proof that the DC doesnt prepare for the backup. (This opens the door for his PREDICTABLE retort "prove that they do"). No coach is worth his weight as a coach if they dont prepare for EVERYTHING. You dont think they have the "book on Leftwich"????????? You obviously have not played any organized sports at any high levels. This is not Madden sir.
Who said anything about EQUAL preparation? Thats silly?SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT. Are you desperate? No one said equal. But you better believe they have the book on the backup. The NFL is a VIOLENT game and the advent of a injury is highly probable and if you are not prepared you are as dumb as YOUR arguments. Come on bro.
He gets on me for using a Hypothetical situation so he returns mine with one of his own. LOL
CLASSIC!! . We hardly passed vs the Ravens? LOL. Dixon threw TWENTY SIX passes in his FIRST CAREER START. We ran 38 times and passed 26. Hardly passed?
Please provide PROOF that we were playing not to get Dixon hurt. Talks about hypotheticals and thats all he gives me.
LOL

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Sorry, but that is what I thought you were saying in this post:

Ben is NOT our team leader. STOP THAT. Hines and Polamalu are. They exemplify professionalism to the highest degree and they perform on the field. I think Leftwich will start and should. Dixon is not ready. I think Lefty made Ben fans NERVOUS when he was here. Ben fans don't want to see him start and do well, it could mean bad things for Ben. If that happens, I dont rule out the fact that the Steeler brass trade Ben. After the suspension is lifted, his value will go up and we could make a killing and get rid of the cancer all at once. Ben fans will HATE this idea but STEELER fans will think it's smart.

I guess you don't really say it. I took it as you implying that Lefty could replace Ben, permanently and we would be better off. I strongly disagree with that thought, but that is my opinion. I am a Steeler fan, but I am also a fan of Ben as our QB. If I felt we had a better chance to win with someones else under center, then I'd be all for it.

I'm a Steeler fan as well and dont like the way Ben has brought down my team so excuse me if I am a little hard on him. There is no excuse for his behavior and quite frankly I wish he was gone. I hope to God that Lefty plays well and they Bench Ben. Ben is a loose cannon, dumb and a perv. BAD CHARACTER GUY

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

[quote=NW Steeler]

You mean the D that SCORED A TD and held Warner to 7 points for three quarters. While the offense putt putted all game? Of course in the 4th they were tired. Ben threw a pass that he admittedly thought was a int. That to me is LUCK. Santonio Holmes was the star of that drive. Hence the MVP. What was Ben doing prior to the 4th quarter. Do explain. Because if Ben plays the whole game like he played the 4th we blow them out.

I have SB 40. Please point out EASY DROPS and I will look for them. How about that PUNT that Ben threw to Hines? Where Hines had to stop, wave his arm to signal the fair catch, then catch it. How about that horrible int that Ben threw in the redzone? Dismissed the 3 games? I certainly did not. I mentioned it at least twice. Had we lost SB 40 would the 3 games matter? No sir. Just like the 15-1 season didnt matter after the AFCCG of 04.

Ben threw the pass to Hines, right? After escaping pressure and waiting for Hines to come open (SB XL). In XLIII, Ben threw a PERFECT pass to Santonio on the previous play that he let go straight through his hands. Then he followed that up with an even more unbelievable pass in the corner of the EZ to win it. They WON SB XL. You keep speaking in what if's. Try looking at his body of work instead of pointing out his flaws or even attributing his memorable plays to luck. Luck? Really?

WHY did Sabol call the CATCH the BEST IN SB HISTORY and not the PASS? Do tell?

WTF does that have to do with anything? Tone dropped an easier pass on the previous play! Ben should have been the MVP of XLIII, not Santonio. Using your logic, "what if Santonio had not caught the game winning pass?" What then? Is it Ben's fault? Jeezus....[/quote:va2djqvk]
Ben should have been the MVP based on what? Based on that fact that he led the game winning drive? Take away those 90 yards and Ben did little all game. It was Holmes who made Francessca miss him and ran the ball down inside the redzone. That was the 2nd biggest play of the drive. The 1st was the CATCH. So he dropped the pass, he made up for it on the next play.

[NW Steeler]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

It was actually Ben's pump fake that caused Francisco to slip on that play. And there you go again, taking away something that DID happen, the 90 yard drive.

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

It was actually Ben's pump fake that caused Francisco to slip on that play. And there you go again, taking away something that DID happen, the 90 yard drive.

WHAT safety falls down from a PUMP FAKE? LOL. IF it was Ben's pump fake that caused it then wouldnt he ALREADY be on the ground BEFORE Tone made the catch? He fell because he thought Tone was going to go INSIDE but Tone fooled him and went OUTSIDE and THAT caused him to fall. Check the footage @ about 33 seconds sir.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWj_3qd_0xc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWj_3qd_0xc[/url]

[NW Steeler]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Well, it looks to me that Francisco was reading Ben, because he was way the hell off of Tone. I thought that he reacted to Ben's pump fake (which does work, that is why they do it), but you are right, he did fall after Tone caught the ball. Whatever. You aren't going to give Ben any credit for anything good he has done, attributing it to luck, but are quick to point out anything that he has done wrong. Like they say opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.

[HeHateMe]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Well, it looks to me that Francisco was reading Ben, because he was way the hell off of Tone. I thought that he reacted to Ben's pump fake (which does work, that is why they do it), but you are right, he did fall after Tone caught the ball. Whatever. You aren't going to give Ben any credit for anything good he has done, attributing it to luck, but are quick to point out anything that he has done wrong. Like they say opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.

A Pump fake is used to MOVE the saftey. NO DB is going to fall Because of a pump fake. Thats HYPERBOLE at its finest. Ben pumped before he threw the ball. Why wasnt he already on the ground IF it was from Ben? No. It was due to TONE as the footage clearly shows. I do give Ben credit. Have you seen me call him a bum? Have I said he SUCKS? I have repeatedly said "Ben is good" but he is NOT great. Ben is good BECAUSE he is on the Steelers. So is Leftwich. How did he look in Tampa? TERRIBLE. You will see how good our team makes a qb look when Byron leads us to a good record to start the season. We wont miss a beat without Ben. Save this post and call me on it.

[NW Steeler]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Well, it looks to me that Francisco was reading Ben, because he was way the hell off of Tone. I thought that he reacted to Ben's pump fake (which does work, that is why they do it), but you are right, he did fall after Tone caught the ball. Whatever. You aren't going to give Ben any credit for anything good he has done, attributing it to luck, but are quick to point out anything that he has done wrong. Like they say opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.

A Pump fake is used to MOVE the saftey. NO DB is going to fall Because of a pump fake. Thats HYPERBOLE at its finest. Ben pumped before he threw the ball. Why wasnt he already on the ground IF it was from Ben? No. It was due to TONE as the footage clearly shows. I do give Ben credit. Have you seen me call him a bum? Have I said he SUCKS? I have repeatedly said "Ben is good" but he is NOT great. Ben is good BECAUSE he is on the Steelers. So is Leftwich. How did he look in Tampa? TERRIBLE. You will see how good our team makes a qb look when Byron leads us to a good record to start the season. We wont miss a beat without Ben. Save this post and call me on it.

Yes, a pump fake is used tp move the defender. If a player is moving he CAN SLIP!!! I already said you were right in that Francisco fell after Tone caught the ball. I don't disagree with most of the rest of your post. That which I do disagree with I'll just keep to myself at this point.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?

Well, it looks to me that Francisco was reading Ben, because he was way the hell off of Tone. I thought that he reacted to Ben's pump fake (which does work, that is why they do it), but you are right, he did fall after Tone caught the ball. Whatever. You aren't going to give Ben any credit for anything good he has done, attributing it to luck, but are quick to point out anything that he has done wrong. Like they say opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. I guess we'll agree to disagree on this.

A Pump fake is used to MOVE the saftey. NO DB is going to fall Because of a pump fake. Thats HYPERBOLE at its finest. Ben pumped before he threw the ball. Why wasnt he already on the ground IF it was from Ben? No. It was due to TONE as the footage clearly shows. I do give Ben credit. Have you seen me call him a bum? Have I said he SUCKS? I have repeatedly said "Ben is good" but he is NOT great. Ben is good BECAUSE he is on the Steelers. So is Leftwich. How did he look in Tampa? TERRIBLE. You will see how good our team makes a qb look when Byron leads us to a good record to start the season. We wont miss a beat without Ben. Save this post and call me on it.

you know, you actually seem like a very intelligent and knowledgeable poster. have you considered softening your approach and delivery so instead of offending others you would contribute in a positive fashion to this Board?

[Wolfhound45]

Re: Who do you want to see at QB in week 1? Dixon or Leftwich?



I think he can still play and win. Period.

Dixon has plenty of time ahead of him. I honestly think he is the future of the Steelers. The young man has a lot of talent.