Where Should Timmons Play?

[feltdizz]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

I'm not ready to write Timmons off after one full season as an ILB...

I know people like plug and play 1st rounders but given our OLB's.. I'm OK with Timmons inside.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

I'm not ready to write Timmons off after one full season as an ILB...

I know people like plug and play 1st rounders but given our OLB's.. I'm OK with Timmons inside.

me too, but i would rather Timmons play Farrior's buck position and let Fox and hopefully Weatherspoon fight it out for the mack starting spot.

[birtikidis]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

I'm not ready to write Timmons off after one full season as an ILB...

I know people like plug and play 1st rounders but given our OLB's.. I'm OK with Timmons inside.

me too, but i would rather Timmons play Farrior's buck position and let Fox and hopefully Weatherspoon fight it out for the mack starting spot.

I would like to see spoon come in and spell timmons (bumping timmons to spell Farrior).
I'm not ready to completely write Farrior off. but I'd like to see him get some rest!

[Shawn]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

IF timmons stays inside he should be in Farriors spot. my opinion is that he will take over for Farrior and then eventually be moved outside (like chad brown).

Agreed. That is what LeBeau calls his Buck.

Weakside linebacker

The weakside linebacker, or "Will", must be the fastest of the three, because he is often the one called into pass coverage. He is also usually chasing the play from the backside, so the ability to maneuver through traffic is a necessity for Will. Will usually aligns off the line of scrimmage at the same depth as Mike. Because of his position on the weakside, Will does not often have to face large interior linemen one on one unless one is pulling. In coverage, Will often covers the back that attacks his side of the field first in man coverage, while covering the weak flat or hook/curl areas in zone coverage. In a 3-4 defense the "Will" Linebacker plays on the "weakside" of the two middle Linebacker positions and a 4th Linebacker comes in to play the weakside. Known as a "Rush", "Rover", "Jack" and/or "Buck" Linebacker, their responsibility is more pass rush based but often is called into run stop (gap control) and pass coverage.

Now...doesnt that sound like what Timmons should be???

Article from the gazette...

[url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05316/605332-66.stm"]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05316/605332-66.stm[/url]


Farrior plays the "buck" position -- the name for the inside linebacker position that lines up to the strong side, or tight end side, in the 3-4 defense.

The buck linebacker makes all the calls for the linemen and linebackers and is usually backed on the same side by the strong safety. That gives him more freedom to make tackles.

"Clint is one of the smartest players on the defense -- that's why he plays the buck," Farrior said. "We got to know a lot of things out there and I'm sure he's going to do well with the calls. He's been in the system for a while. Everyone on the defense believes in him and has confidence in him, and that's the biggest thing."

The other inside position, manned by Larry Foote, is known as "the mack." The mack linebacker has less freedom to make tackles because he does not have safety support. He is mostly responsible for backside and weakside support.

"That's why he makes more tackles than me," Foote said of Farrior.

Very helpful, thanks so much, Sean.

Interesting article to read too - FWP/The Bus, Clint K., etc. - blast from the past!

No problem San. Yeah I got to read alot of these articles when I was trying to study up on the linebacker position. Very interesting stuff.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

IF timmons stays inside he should be in Farriors spot. my opinion is that he will take over for Farrior and then eventually be moved outside (like chad brown).

Agreed. That is what LeBeau calls his Buck.

Weakside linebacker

The weakside linebacker, or "Will", must be the fastest of the three, because he is often the one called into pass coverage. He is also usually chasing the play from the backside, so the ability to maneuver through traffic is a necessity for Will. Will usually aligns off the line of scrimmage at the same depth as Mike. Because of his position on the weakside, Will does not often have to face large interior linemen one on one unless one is pulling. In coverage, Will often covers the back that attacks his side of the field first in man coverage, while covering the weak flat or hook/curl areas in zone coverage. In a 3-4 defense the "Will" Linebacker plays on the "weakside" of the two middle Linebacker positions and a 4th Linebacker comes in to play the weakside. Known as a "Rush", "Rover", "Jack" and/or "Buck" Linebacker, their responsibility is more pass rush based but often is called into run stop (gap control) and pass coverage.

Now...doesnt that sound like what Timmons should be???

Article from the gazette...

[url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05316/605332-66.stm"]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05316/605332-66.stm[/url]


Farrior plays the "buck" position -- the name for the inside linebacker position that lines up to the strong side, or tight end side, in the 3-4 defense.

The buck linebacker makes all the calls for the linemen and linebackers and is usually backed on the same side by the strong safety. That gives him more freedom to make tackles.

"Clint is one of the smartest players on the defense -- that's why he plays the buck," Farrior said. "We got to know a lot of things out there and I'm sure he's going to do well with the calls. He's been in the system for a while. Everyone on the defense believes in him and has confidence in him, and that's the biggest thing."

The other inside position, manned by Larry Foote, is known as "the mack." The mack linebacker has less freedom to make tackles because he does not have safety support. He is mostly responsible for backside and weakside support.

"That's why he makes more tackles than me," Foote said of Farrior.

Very helpful, thanks so much, Sean.

Interesting article to read too - FWP/The Bus, Clint K., etc. - blast from the past!

No problem San. Yeah I got to read alot of these articles when I was trying to study up on the linebacker position. Very interesting stuff.

But what you are not understanding Shawn, is this is what LeBeau calls Farrior’s spot. Most teams who run this 3-4 don’t call that the “Buck”. Traditionally on a 3-4 (even a 4-3), the names of these LB’s has always been the Mike (Middle), the Will (weak side), the Sam (strong side), and the Buck, Jack, Rush, or Rover however your team calls it. This Buck, Jack, Rover, or Rush LB plays the weak side end linebacker position. And traditionally it has generally been the Mike (middle linebacker-QUARTERBACK OF THE DEFENSE), that calls the defensive signals. Unfortunately because of Timmons lack of leadership LeBeau has instructed his weak side LB (Farrior), to handle this…and has even given him a different name---the Buck.

Here is a page that shows Nick Saban’s 3-4 defense at Alabama. Notice the names he gives his backers. He got this from Bellichek who got this from Parcels and so on and so on and so. I would seriously suggest you click on this link.

[url="http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/135249/34defensearticletease.PNG"]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/13524 ... etease.PNG[/url]

[steelsnis]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

Unfortunately because of Timmons lack of leadership LeBeau has instructed his weak side LB (Farrior), to handle this…and has even given him a different name---the Buck.

Rubbish. Farrior has been the signal caller on defense for years. Way before Timmons got here. You make it sound like Foote called the defensive signals before he left for Detroit.

[Oviedo]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

I'm not ready to write Timmons off after one full season as an ILB...

I know people like plug and play 1st rounders but given our OLB's.. I'm OK with Timmons inside.

Timmons was third on the team in Sacks and fifth in Tackles and second in forced fumbles. Do you realize he had more tackles than Woodley???? He missed two games and was less than 100% in several others. Why on God's green earth would "writing him off" even be a thought? That is just plain nuts.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

Unfortunately because of Timmons lack of leadership LeBeau has instructed his weak side LB (Farrior), to handle this…and has even given him a different name---the Buck.

Rubbish. Farrior has been the signal caller on defense for years. Way before Timmons got here. You make it sound like Foote called the defensive signals before he left for Detroit.

Oh God! I realize this...but the positions these two are playing are actually reversals. Timmons is playing the traditional Middle (Mike), spot that is generally reserved for the QB of the defense. Wow....i guess some just are equipped to know certain things.

[Shawn]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

It's not that I'm not willing to believe you D. Like I admit I'm not an expert. But, why did the article I sited say the exact opposite of what you are saying. Was Dulac and Foote wrong? Is it possible they were both confused?

For me it's confusing especially if Lebeau is switching up terminology based on his play caller.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

It's not that I'm not willing to believe you D. Like I admit I'm not an expert. But, why did the article I sited say the exact opposite of what you are saying. Was Dulac and Foote wrong? Is it possible they were both confused?

For me it's confusing especially if Lebeau is switching up terminology based on his play caller.

Shawn nothing you said was wrong. It is a switching of terminology. I am willing to bet that everyone who has been under LeBeau, has continued that. Just like those under Parcells. But what I allude to is what these names (linebackers), are traditionally.

The only thing I disagree with is where Timmons would be best served. He should play that Will or Buck position, as you call it, and we have a more stout Middle LB next to him. A down hill sideline to sideline.

[Shawn]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

It's not that I'm not willing to believe you D. Like I admit I'm not an expert. But, why did the article I sited say the exact opposite of what you are saying. Was Dulac and Foote wrong? Is it possible they were both confused?

For me it's confusing especially if Lebeau is switching up terminology based on his play caller.

Shawn nothing you said was wrong. It is a switching of terminology. I am willing to bet that everyone who has been under LeBeau, has continued that. Just like those under Parcells. But what I allude to is what these names (linebackers), are traditionally.

The only thing I disagree with is where Timmons would be best served. He should play that Will or Buck position, as you call it, and we have a more stout Middle LB next to him. A down hill sideline to sideline.

Well if what you are saying is true which I believe it is...then it makes more sense to me. It would certainly be the reason I seen so many articles contradict each other.

[Dee Dub]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

It's not that I'm not willing to believe you D. Like I admit I'm not an expert. But, why did the article I sited say the exact opposite of what you are saying. Was Dulac and Foote wrong? Is it possible they were both confused?

For me it's confusing especially if Lebeau is switching up terminology based on his play caller.

Shawn nothing you said was wrong. It is a switching of terminology. I am willing to bet that everyone who has been under LeBeau, has continued that. Just like those under Parcells. But what I allude to is what these names (linebackers), are traditionally.

The only thing I disagree with is where Timmons would be best served. He should play that Will or Buck position, as you call it, and we have a more stout Middle LB next to him. A down hill sideline to sideline.

Well if what you are saying is true which I believe it is...then it makes more sense to me. It would certainly be the reason I seen so many articles contradict each other.

I really believe if the Steelers drafted Weatherspoon, or even got McClain who played in a 3-4, this will improve the play of Timmons. Or if buy some miracle the Steelers signed Kirk Morrison this too would help Timmons.

[ikestops85]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

It's not that I'm not willing to believe you D. Like I admit I'm not an expert. But, why did the article I sited say the exact opposite of what you are saying. Was Dulac and Foote wrong? Is it possible they were both confused?

For me it's confusing especially if Lebeau is switching up terminology based on his play caller.

Shawn nothing you said was wrong. It is a switching of terminology. I am willing to bet that everyone who has been under LeBeau, has continued that. Just like those under Parcells. But what I allude to is what these names (linebackers), are traditionally.

The only thing I disagree with is where Timmons would be best served. He should play that Will or Buck position, as you call it, and we have a more stout Middle LB next to him. A down hill sideline to sideline.

Well if what you are saying is true which I believe it is...then it makes more sense to me. It would certainly be the reason I seen so many articles contradict each other.

The names really don't make any sense in todays game. It used to be offenses would come out and be primarily left-handed or right-handed. The TE in a right-handed offense would break the huddle and line up next to the right tackle ... on almost every single play. If that TE would come out and line up on the left side you would see the linebackers switch so the strong side linebacker would be over the TE.

Teams don't operate like that anymore. The formations are so varied with the TE often split out, unbalanced lines and motion the strong side could switch 3 times before the play gets run. Do you ever see Harrison and Woodley running back and forth switching sides so Harrison can stay on the weak side? Did Timmons and Farrior also switch? I never saw any of them doing that. It would look like the keystone cops if they did.

The linebackers as I see it are:

Woodley - LOLB
Farrior - LILB
Timmons - RILB
Harrison - ROLB

Now you can call them whatever you want but those are the positions they play. Just don't try and designate them based on strong and weak side because those formations don't dictate where our linebackers line up.

Of course I could be full of sh!t

[Chadman]

Re: Where Should Timmons Play?

I'm not ready to write Timmons off after one full season as an ILB...

I know people like plug and play 1st rounders but given our OLB's.. I'm OK with Timmons inside.

Timmons was third on the team in Sacks and fifth in Tackles and second in forced fumbles. Do you realize he had more tackles than Woodley???? He missed two games and was less than 100% in several others. Why on God's green earth would "writing him off" even be a thought? That is just plain nuts.

Face it- some people will always consider Timmons a reach, and will be quick to look for his failure.

He didn't fit the traditional Bill Cowher ILB mould, and therefore represents a breakaway from the norm- something that rocks diehard fans to the core, it would seem.

Change is, after all, really bad.

didn't you know?