Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

[stlrz d]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Yeah Cody would be a real possibility if Tomlin was Cowher. But, by history he isn't going there with his first round pick. If he decides to go with NT...he will grab Williams...the sure thing despite the lower ceiling.

I disagree that Williams has a lower ceiling. Williams is reliable whereas Cody will be a nightmare trying to keep on the field from an injury and conditioning standpoint. IMO Cody has reached his ceiling and will be nothing more than a two down run stuffer in a league that passes more than it runs. Cody will be a total non-factor in pass defense where Williams can get after the QB.

I agree.....if we do go after a DT, I want a full timer, not one that comes out in pass situations (like Hampton).

With the rules favoring the pass in the NFL LeBeau likes to go to packages that have more linebackers and d-backs on the field in obvious passing situations.

I understand that and thats what I want to continue to happen, but if we take a guy in the first round and pay him the big bucks, I want him to be the complete package...not a part timer by only being a run stuffer but also being able to get to the quarterback.

But that's not a NT's job in the 3-4. That's why they come out on passing downs.

[Oviedo]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

They come out in OBVIOUS passing downs but its not like teams now are running on 1st and 2nd down and then just passing on 3rd. There is no OBVIOUS passing downs in this league anymore. Most teams are passing on any down which makes a big fat run stuffer less effective if he can't get to the QB.

As the league goes more to increased passing and spread offenses, the value of the traditional NT becomes less because he is playing less. One could argue that seeing the NT in the game is a read that QBs make to switch up to a pass play.

Reference previous points about my continuing call for the 4-3.

[cruzer8]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

They come out in OBVIOUS passing downs but its not like teams now are running on 1st and 2nd down and then just passing on 3rd. There is no OBVIOUS passing downs in this league anymore. Most teams are passing on any down which makes a big fat run stuffer less effective if he can't get to the QB.

As the league goes more to increased passing and spread offenses, the value of the traditional NT becomes less because he is playing less. One could argue that seeing the NT in the game is a read that QBs make to switch up to a pass play.

Reference previous points about my continuing call for the 4-3.

It's no different with the 4-3. See the Williams "brothers" in MN for that. One of those big DTs is a run stuffer much like the 3-4 NT and the other is more like a 3-4 DE.

There's also the fatigue factor. Teams rotate on the DL for a reason. Those big bodies get tired. You can't expect a guy that large to be out there for 3 snaps on every defensive play and be effective all game long. Teams with great defenses understand that regardless of the scheme they're running.

[Shawn]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Yeah Cody would be a real possibility if Tomlin was Cowher. But, by history he isn't going there with his first round pick. If he decides to go with NT...he will grab Williams...the sure thing despite the lower ceiling.

I disagree that Williams has a lower ceiling. Williams is reliable whereas Cody will be a nightmare trying to keep on the field from an injury and conditioning standpoint. IMO Cody has reached his ceiling and will be nothing more than a two down run stuffer in a league that passes more than it runs. Cody will be a total non-factor in pass defense where Williams can get after the QB.

I really can't understand your reasoning. Again, a NT isn't supposed to get pressure on the QB...he is there to absorb double teams. He is there is take on two blockers. No one in this draft does that better than Cody. His presence in the middle will make the linebackers jobs ALOT easier.

[Shawn]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Yeah Cody would be a real possibility if Tomlin was Cowher. But, by history he isn't going there with his first round pick. If he decides to go with NT...he will grab Williams...the sure thing despite the lower ceiling.

I disagree that Williams has a lower ceiling. Williams is reliable whereas Cody will be a nightmare trying to keep on the field from an injury and conditioning standpoint. IMO Cody has reached his ceiling and will be nothing more than a two down run stuffer in a league that passes more than it runs. Cody will be a total non-factor in pass defense where Williams can get after the QB.

I agree.....if we do go after a DT, I want a full timer, not one that comes out in pass situations (like Hampton).

That's what your DEs are for. This is what people don't get...any dominant 3-4 NT that can take on 2 blockers on every play...will be a big dude...and unlikely to be as quick on his feet as your 3-4 DEs. What people are asking for doesn't exist in this draft. Williams is also a 2 down NT. While he is quicker than Cody...he isn't going to be as quick as Hood, or Keisel.

I mean I want a NT would is 350 pounds, runs a 4.3 40 and can bench 900 pounds 40 times. But, what you guys are asking for is unrealistic from a 3-4 NT.

[Shawn]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

They come out in OBVIOUS passing downs but its not like teams now are running on 1st and 2nd down and then just passing on 3rd. There is no OBVIOUS passing downs in this league anymore. Most teams are passing on any down which makes a big fat run stuffer less effective if he can't get to the QB.

As the league goes more to increased passing and spread offenses, the value of the traditional NT becomes less because he is playing less. One could argue that seeing the NT in the game is a read that QBs make to switch up to a pass play.

Reference previous points about my continuing call for the 4-3.

Exactly...you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Your problem isn't the 3-4 NT...it's a problem you have with the 3-4 itself and the roles people play in that system.

[hawaiiansteel]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Previewing the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine

by Colin Lindsay, Editor and Publisher, Great Blue North Draft Report

February 24, 2010


Arguably, the most important week of the re-draft testing period gets underway in Indianapolis later today with the start of the annual scouting combine as 330 or so NFL draft hopefuls will be poked, prodded, tested - both mentally and physically - and otherwise put through a pressure cooker over the next six days. Needless to say, all 32 NFL teams will be well represented in Indianapolis this week with front office personnel people, scouts and coaches in attendance. Meanwhile, the participants at the combine were determined by a Selection Committee made up of the Directors of both the National and BLESTO scouting services, which combined represent twenty-six NFL teams, as well as members of various NFL player personnel departments.

Players are broken into 4 groups which will each undergo 4 full days of testing. The week will be lead off with the TEs and offensive lineman, which start their week in Indianapolis later today and run through Saturday, while Group 2 includes the QBs, WRs and RBs, Group 3 includes the LBs and defensive linemen and Group 4 the corners and safeties. Of course, not all players will do a full workout, as over the years many of the very top prospects have opted to wait until their own school’s pro day to run the 40 and participate in position drills. This year, for example, QBs Sam Bradford of Oklahoma, Jimmy Clausen of Notre Dame and Texas' Colt McCoy won't workout because of injury while both Tim Tebow of Florida and Central Michigan's Dan LeFevour will participate in the on-field physical tests, but won't throw until their on-campus pro days in March.
The first day for each group involves registration and orientation, while the players undergo medical tests and get x-rays. The second day involves the weigh-in, along with more medical tests, as well as some psychological testing. On the third day, players meet the players association and undergo further pyschological testing; they also undergo strength testing. Finally on the fourth day players hit the field for physical skills' test and as well as positional drills. The physical tests include running the 40 - the gold standard for draft propsects - as well as the 3-cone drill, 20- and 60-yard shuttles, broad jump and vertical leap. And on each of the first three days players will be interviewed by individual teams. However, every team is limited to interviewing just 60 player and have to submit a list in advance. As well, each interview is limited to only 15 minutes. The on-field physical testing begins on Saturday when the offfensive linemen and TEs hit the field, while the offensive skill people work out on Sunday, followed by the defensive linemen and LBs on Monday and the DBs wrap things up on Tuesday. And while the combine used to be run with all the secrecy of a meeting of the national secrity agency, the event is now carried by the NFL Network with their in-depth coverage to start with the on-field workouts on Saturday. The NFL even permits limited media attendance at the workouts.

While the physical testing gets most of the press, the heart-and-soul of the combine are the medical exams. In fact, the combine came about in the early 1980s to centralize the medical tests so players wouldn't have to undergo the same procedure for 32 different teams. As well, players with serious medical concerns may be recalled in early April for further tests.

Road to the draft runs thru Indy… There is also no question that the scouting combine is a key aspect of the pre-draft process. Last year, for example, 84% of the 256 players selected at the 2009 draft participated in last February's scouting combine. In fact, players who attended the combine as a percentage of those actually drafted has been remarkably constant at around 85% over the past few years.

As well, almost all players taken in the early rounds of recent drafts were combine inviteees. In 2009, for example, all 32 first-round picks, as well as 96% of those taken in the opening three rounds had attended the combine. And the fact that as many as four players who did not attend the combine were selected within the first three rounds this past April was actually relatively high. Indeed, in 2008, every player taken in the first three rounds had been to that year's combine. For the record, the non-combine invitee taken the earliest at the 2009 draft was former Ohio safety Michael Mitchell who was selected 47th overall by Oakland, while New England took Houston OT Sebastian Vollmer later in the second round with the 58th pick. Meanwhile, Western Illinois OLB Jason Williams and William&Mary CB Derek Cox were taken with the 69th and 73rd picks respectively by Dallas and Jacksonville in the third round.

In fact, the majority of players selected at the 2009 draft who were passed over when the combine invitations were sent out were selected in the later rounds. Last April, for example, 19 of the 42 - or 45% - of the drafted players who did not participate in the combine were taken in the final round, while another 9 (21%) were taken in the 6th round. Still, even in the late rounds, though, the majority of players selected were at the combine. Last year, for example, 60% of players selected in the 7th round, the same figure as the previous year, were at the combine, while 75% of those selected in the 6th round were at the combine.

<>At the same time, simply getting an invite to the combine is not a guarantee that a player will ultimately being drafted, although it certainly is a good start. At the 2009 draft, for example, just under 65% of all players at last February's combine were eventually drafted. And if 2009 was any indicator, CBs attending the combine have a better than average likelihood of ultimately being drafted. Last year, for example, 83% of the corners in Indianapolis were at the combine. Meanwhile, the figure was also over 70% for TEs (76%), DT (71%), WRs (71%), and safeties (71%), while it was 69% for DEs, 68% for LBs, 64% for OTs, and 62% for RBs. In contrast, the figure was under 50% for QBs, just 9 of 21(43%) combine invitees were drafted last April, as well as for OGs (48%) and Cs (46%).

[aggiebones]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Thomas will be a flop. Big time.
I'm warning now.
Texas is always stacked recruiting wise and their players don't need to do as much to look good since their are top skilled players next to everyone.
But when its time to move up to the pros, MOST fail since they playing next to a stud against vastly inferior competition.
This was definitely true this year, when Texas had a weak schedule. This was the worst year in the Big12 for a long time. Once OU's Bradford went down again, there was no other even decent team in the league.

Tony Hills is a dud. Sweed is a dude.
Hampton was a stud that made Shaun Rodgers look like a stud. But big Shaun was a dud for where he was picked. Alot of those guys don't have the hear to rise up when needed. Some figure it out in the pros after a few years, but most are picked WAAAY too high for their worth.

I'm just saying BEWARE of this cat. He's light, weak and injury prone. How mentally tough is he? Not very. Leave these players for the Cowboys, so we don't have to worry about them in the playoffs.

[Oviedo]

Re: Combine countdown: potential 1st Round picks

Thomas will be a flop. Big time.
I'm warning now.
Texas is always stacked recruiting wise and their players don't need to do as much to look good since their are top skilled players next to everyone.
But when its time to move up to the pros, MOST fail since they playing next to a stud against vastly inferior competition.
This was definitely true this year, when Texas had a weak schedule. This was the worst year in the Big12 for a long time. Once OU's Bradford went down again, there was no other even decent team in the league.

Tony Hills is a dud. Sweed is a dude.
Hampton was a stud that made Shaun Rodgers look like a stud. But big Shaun was a dud for where he was picked. Alot of those guys don't have the hear to rise up when needed. Some figure it out in the pros after a few years, but most are picked WAAAY too high for their worth.

I'm just saying BEWARE of this cat. He's light, weak and injury prone. How mentally tough is he? Not very. Leave these players for the Cowboys, so we don't have to worry about them in the playoffs.

I agree about Thomas. I won't take him in Round 1. The warts are starting to come out and there is a question now about how effective he will be able to be in the NFL against the run. He should have stayed in school another year.