In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

[phillyesq]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

I think CB is the most glaring weakness on the team. Willie Gay was great as a nickel back and part time guy, but has been awful as a starter. He added about 15 pounds before the season - perhaps that cost him quickness that he could not afford.

After corner, I think depth at safety is a big weakness. Ryan Clark is a great compliment to Troy, but is adequate at best in Troy's absence. Mundy has shown nothing, and Carter, while actually a capable fill-in for very brief periods of time, gets exploited if he has to play regularly. The Steelers need somebody who can step in and contribute in nickel and dime situations, and also somebody who can fill in if Troy gets nicked up again. While Clark is a decent player, and should be kept for a year if for no reason other than stability, drafting somebody to replace him a year or two down the road wouldn't hurt, either.

Center and right guard could also use an upgrade. Essex was an adequate starter, nothing more, nothing less. Foster is an adequate backup at all positions, as was Essex, which was important. Stapelton's athleticism makes him an interesting center candidate, but I'm not sure that he has the size or strength to deal with some of the big NTs. Hartwig is adequate, nothing more. Center or RG could both easily be upgraded.

[ikestops85]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

Since we haven't signed Ryan Clark I have to go with safety as the weakest position followed closely by the CB position. I would say center is next although I still hold out hope Legursky is our answer at that position. After that we need depth at linebacker and the D line.

I think we have 3 very good receivers, 2 good running backs and 2 good tight ends. I think we can ignore these positions in this draft. At most we could take 1 running back in the 4th or later rounds.

[Discipline of Steel]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

Since we haven't signed Ryan Clark I have to go with safety as the weakest position followed closely by the CB position. I would say center is next although I still hold out hope Legursky is our answer at that position. After that we need depth at linebacker and the D line.

I think we have 3 very good receivers, 2 good running backs and 2 good tight ends. I think we can ignore these positions in this draft. At most we could take 1 running back in the 4th or later rounds.

...and only if that running back is a fullback running back. Not that im proselityzing about a switch to a run heavy offense, its just nice to have a true FB on the roster when you need to bang it.

[feltdizz]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

Short yardage wasn't a problem last year... Our philosophy in short yardage has changed... if you look back last year we didn't struggle to run we chose not to run.

Alll these OC's that we point to as geniuses used the empty backfield in short yardage when I watched them.

The traditional FB is gone... and honestly I'm OK with it. If our DB's make one freaking play on the ball in a few 4th quarters we win 2 more games and the board would use our offensive stats as proof of how great Ben is...

Cause we all know BA would never get credit. LOL.

[SteelCzar76]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

As we saw this season,....Troy like anyone can be injured,..and the rest of the Db's have regressed to the point where even the pass rush and system (zone) can no longer protect them because of their lack of speed, ball skills, explosiveness and ability to cover.

Okay, so you look for speed, ball skills, explosiveness and ability to cover when evaluating DB's, but you covet Taylor Mays, who has all of the speed and explosiveness you can ask for, but lacks those all-important ball skills and ability to cover. I expect Pete Carroll to draft a bunch of your USC favorites in Seattle, as opposed to the lousy "grits" players who you hate, but help us to win titles at this level instead of at the college level.

For what it's worth, I like your suggestion of Kyle Wilson, but based on his strong showing at the Senior Bowl, I think he is now a late first or early second type of prospect (unfortunately for us).

The original poster noted that Hartwig's deal was almost up. We only signed him to a 2 year deal initially, but two days prior to the 2009 season opening game vs. Tennessee, he was given a 4 year extension.

As for the original question, I'd have to say our biggest weakness is at starting CB. At most other positions, we have legit starters and the weakness involves depth, but at CB we have quantity of bodies, but lack starting quality there. We have Ike and a bunch of nickel and dime backs. Unfortunately, the only CB who provides legit value at #18 would be Haden, and he'll be long gone by then. There are about a dozen CB prospects worthy of consideration on day 2 of the draft (rounds 2 & 3), however.

Here's the difference Ruthless where not only Mays,..but Gay, Lewis,.Burnett and Mundy are concerned. Any young player can refine their skill set by working hard to improve their technique and becoming more of a student of the game.

However if a said young player were to enter the League slow, with average to below with average intellect and athleticism, and or with very little natural acumen whatsoever in terms of awareness,....expecting them to perform at a high level as a starter is a proposition that borders upon "Ice Skating Up Mt Everast"

As far as Wilson,..i,.. like Mike Mayock,... had him ranked #2 prior to the Senior Bowl,...even when everyone else i knew of was screaming "Perish Cox, Donovan Warren !" or even the kid from FSU. And based upon his performance in Mobile,..were he (Wilson) to perform exceptionally well at the combine his stock could easily become that of a top 20 player IMO. Especially in light of how rare exceptional starting Corners are becoming in light of the leagues current "pass friendly" standards.

Don't get me wrong i like a few CB's out of this class in say the 3rd,....but really has that not been one of greatest shortcomings,...having an entire secondary with the exception of one Man totally comprised of "Aaaaah,... maybe he will be solid and or ordinary as a Bowl of Grits one day ?!" quality players.

[papillon]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

I think our weakest link is D-Line. The guys are all getting older, as we all are and we haven't been grooming the right guys over the years. It is very interesting to me that both years Aaron Smith went down, our defense started giving up big yards late in games. One guy seems to be that important to us.

The problem I see with moving to a 4-3 defense is that we currently are having a hard time finding 3 D-lineman that can hustle, by changing it up, we have to find four. Snack doesn't fit a 4-3 DT, does Hoke? Smith and Keisel have been playing the two gap for so long, that would be a tough transition. Hood can play, and he hasn't "un-learned" everything about playing the one gap yet. So there's one. If Harris is worth a darn and I'd say that's still up for debate, there's 2.

Moving Woodley back up to the line puts him back three years of learning OLB and becoming a Pro-Bowler at it. Does Harrison move to MLB, Timmons to the OLB? Ovie's right, that could well be Timmons' more natural spot. We'll find out soon enough, this will be his fourth year coming up if I'm not mistaken.

Also, if the Steelers were 6-10 last year then I could see blowing the team up and starting over. But the Steelers were 9-7 last year with 2 all Pro's out on defense for much of the year and Tyrone Freakin' Carter at Safety. Heck, you look at it like that and 9-7 no longer sounds so bad!

Keith Butler is the heir apparent I believe for our Defensive Coordinator. He's worked with LeBeau for an awful long time and he could be a 3-4 disciple at this point. I would think if he steps in for LeBeau, he would keep things as they are.

Moving to the 4-3 would be easy. You just move Woodley back to the DE position with Kiesel at the other DE. The DTs would be Smith and Hood. Back ups would be Hoke, Eason, Paxson and Harris. You could draft two rookies this year and have them step into their natural college positions versus doing the two year conversion. Plus you save $7M because you aren't hostage to resigning Hampton as NT.

If you look at the defensive line players ranked as legit 1st Round talents this season we tend to ignore most of the DEs because they don't fit the requirements of a 3-4 DE. It has always for me been about the talent pool and the talent pool for 4-3 DL is much deeper than for 3-4.

All that said as pointed out we are probably stuck with the 3-4 and will have to deal with the inability to reload talent and get young players playing.

Who plays middle linebacker? A person that can shed blocks and make 9-12 tackles per game going sideline to sideline? Timmons will be the "Jack Ham" LB in a 4-3, can cover and hopefiully hold the edge in the running game. Can Harrison be the "Andy Russell" LB?

If the Steelers can't reload talent for the 3-4, then about 12 or 13 other teams won't be able to reload either. I'm glad the Steelers are "stuck" in the 3-4, since, it was so horrible last year and even in a down year this year the defense still ended up 6th or 7th in the league in scoring.

Changing the defensive scheme isn't the answer to the defensive woes.

Pappy

[stlrz d]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

I think our weakest link is D-Line. The guys are all getting older, as we all are and we haven't been grooming the right guys over the years. It is very interesting to me that both years Aaron Smith went down, our defense started giving up big yards late in games. One guy seems to be that important to us.

The problem I see with moving to a 4-3 defense is that we currently are having a hard time finding 3 D-lineman that can hustle, by changing it up, we have to find four. Snack doesn't fit a 4-3 DT, does Hoke? Smith and Keisel have been playing the two gap for so long, that would be a tough transition. Hood can play, and he hasn't "un-learned" everything about playing the one gap yet. So there's one. If Harris is worth a darn and I'd say that's still up for debate, there's 2.

Moving Woodley back up to the line puts him back three years of learning OLB and becoming a Pro-Bowler at it. Does Harrison move to MLB, Timmons to the OLB? Ovie's right, that could well be Timmons' more natural spot. We'll find out soon enough, this will be his fourth year coming up if I'm not mistaken.

Also, if the Steelers were 6-10 last year then I could see blowing the team up and starting over. But the Steelers were 9-7 last year with 2 all Pro's out on defense for much of the year and Tyrone Freakin' Carter at Safety. Heck, you look at it like that and 9-7 no longer sounds so bad!

Keith Butler is the heir apparent I believe for our Defensive Coordinator. He's worked with LeBeau for an awful long time and he could be a 3-4 disciple at this point. I would think if he steps in for LeBeau, he would keep things as they are.

Moving to the 4-3 would be easy. You just move Woodley back to the DE position with Kiesel at the other DE. The DTs would be Smith and Hood. Back ups would be Hoke, Eason, Paxson and Harris. You could draft two rookies this year and have them step into their natural college positions versus doing the two year conversion. Plus you save $7M because you aren't hostage to resigning Hampton as NT.

If you look at the defensive line players ranked as legit 1st Round talents this season we tend to ignore most of the DEs because they don't fit the requirements of a 3-4 DE. It has always for me been about the talent pool and the talent pool for 4-3 DL is much deeper than for 3-4.

All that said as pointed out we are probably stuck with the 3-4 and will have to deal with the inability to reload talent and get young players playing.

Who plays middle linebacker? A person that can shed blocks and make 9-12 tackles per game going sideline to sideline? Timmons will be the "Jack Ham" LB in a 4-3, can cover and hopefiully hold the edge in the running game. Can Harrison be the "Andy Russell" LB?

If the Steelers can't reload talent for the 3-4, then about 12 or 13 other teams won't be able to reload either. I'm glad the Steelers are "stuck" in the 3-4, since, it was so horrible last year and even in a down year this year the defense still ended up 6th or 7th in the league in scoring.

Changing the defensive scheme isn't the answer to the defensive woes.

Pappy

Cosigned.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

if wilson does grade out to be a late 1st rounder. i would have zero problem taking him at #18. couldn't give a crap if we took him 10-12 spots early. thats how weak our secondary was last year

even with Troy playing , we still see our corners get beat. no one seems to be able to play the ball. i've reAD WHERE WILSON HAS GOOD BALL SKILLS.
that said, if they can move down and still grab him, do it

look at buffalo's high 2nd rder last year. 10 spots after Hood. kid comes in and picks off 8-9 passes. what would have happened with our D if we added that kind of production?

mardi gras might have had a differnet tone this year


center is prolly a 2nd on the list.

clark didn't have a good season, but he was fantastic in the SB run. knocking out a few players too. a healthy troy helps him a ton IMO. if he doesn't get resigned, , then it might be a bigger problem then center

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

I think our weakest link is D-Line. The guys are all getting older, as we all are and we haven't been grooming the right guys over the years. It is very interesting to me that both years Aaron Smith went down, our defense started giving up big yards late in games. One guy seems to be that important to us.

The problem I see with moving to a 4-3 defense is that we currently are having a hard time finding 3 D-lineman that can hustle, by changing it up, we have to find four. Snack doesn't fit a 4-3 DT, does Hoke? Smith and Keisel have been playing the two gap for so long, that would be a tough transition. Hood can play, and he hasn't "un-learned" everything about playing the one gap yet. So there's one. If Harris is worth a darn and I'd say that's still up for debate, there's 2.

Moving Woodley back up to the line puts him back three years of learning OLB and becoming a Pro-Bowler at it. Does Harrison move to MLB, Timmons to the OLB? Ovie's right, that could well be Timmons' more natural spot. We'll find out soon enough, this will be his fourth year coming up if I'm not mistaken.

Also, if the Steelers were 6-10 last year then I could see blowing the team up and starting over. But the Steelers were 9-7 last year with 2 all Pro's out on defense for much of the year and Tyrone Freakin' Carter at Safety. Heck, you look at it like that and 9-7 no longer sounds so bad!

Keith Butler is the heir apparent I believe for our Defensive Coordinator. He's worked with LeBeau for an awful long time and he could be a 3-4 disciple at this point. I would think if he steps in for LeBeau, he would keep things as they are.

Moving to the 4-3 would be easy. You just move Woodley back to the DE position with Kiesel at the other DE. The DTs would be Smith and Hood. Back ups would be Hoke, Eason, Paxson and Harris. You could draft two rookies this year and have them step into their natural college positions versus doing the two year conversion. Plus you save $7M because you aren't hostage to resigning Hampton as NT.

If you look at the defensive line players ranked as legit 1st Round talents this season we tend to ignore most of the DEs because they don't fit the requirements of a 3-4 DE. It has always for me been about the talent pool and the talent pool for 4-3 DL is much deeper than for 3-4.

All that said as pointed out we are probably stuck with the 3-4 and will have to deal with the inability to reload talent and get young players playing.

Who plays middle linebacker? A person that can shed blocks and make 9-12 tackles per game going sideline to sideline? Timmons will be the "Jack Ham" LB in a 4-3, can cover and hopefiully hold the edge in the running game. Can Harrison be the "Andy Russell" LB?

If the Steelers can't reload talent for the 3-4, then about 12 or 13 other teams won't be able to reload either. I'm glad the Steelers are "stuck" in the 3-4, since, it was so horrible last year and even in a down year this year the defense still ended up 6th or 7th in the league in scoring.

Changing the defensive scheme isn't the answer to the defensive woes.

Pappy

I agree. I am not even sure if Keisal or Woodley can play 4-3 DE at a high level in this league. I don't think Keisal has a quick enough first step. Woodley would had been a first round pick if teams were sold he could play DE in a 4-3 defense.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

CB is arguably the most overrated position on the field, IMO (DeVille ducks and looks over his shoulder for SFL).

Fred Smoot was great in college, joined Champ Bailey and sucked. Champ left and he was great again.. why? Cuz teams are GOING TO throw the football. They just throw at the team they perceive to be the weakest link.

What happened to Charles Woodson in Oakland? Namdi Asomougha... Did he suddenly become good in Green Bay? Nope, he got rid of Namdi.

If we draft a new CB in the 1st, we'll be asking for another one next year because Ike will become Mr Toast due to reputation of the newb.

If you want better CBs, get better pressure. Woodley and Harrison dissappeared in the middle of the season and so went our record. When they Wood became a beast the last few weeks, we started winning again.

It's hard to cover when the other team has all day to throw it. Ever notice how when Ben breaks away from the pursuit, it's almost always a big play? Cuz the opposing CB has been covering for FOREVER and finally lost his man.

Don't get me wrong - Will Gay should be a backup. HOWEVER, CB isn't necessarily the weakest link. I think the team had bigger issues due to missing Aaron smith for the 2nd half of the season. Gay was "sufficient" when Smith was there - still, he needs competition.

[Shawn]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

SoD...I agree. I have said this before...if you want to make your DBs look like all pro's get to the QB.

[papillon]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

CB is arguably the most overrated position on the field, IMO (DeVille ducks and looks over his shoulder for SFL).

Fred Smoot was great in college, joined Champ Bailey and sucked. Champ left and he was great again.. why? Cuz teams are GOING TO throw the football. They just throw at the team they perceive to be the weakest link.

What happened to Charles Woodson in Oakland? Namdi Asomougha... Did he suddenly become good in Green Bay? Nope, he got rid of Namdi.

If we draft a new CB in the 1st, we'll be asking for another one next year because Ike will become Mr Toast due to reputation of the newb.

If you want better CBs, get better pressure. Woodley and Harrison dissappeared in the middle of the season and so went our record. When they Wood became a beast the last few weeks, we started winning again.

It's hard to cover when the other team has all day to throw it. Ever notice how when Ben breaks away from the pursuit, it's almost always a big play? Cuz the opposing CB has been covering for FOREVER and finally lost his man.

Don't get me wrong - Will Gay should be a backup. HOWEVER, CB isn't necessarily the weakest link. I think the team had bigger issues due to missing Aaron smith for the 2nd half of the season. Gay was "sufficient" when Smith was there - still, he needs competition.

Just to refute this a bit about cornerbacks in the NFL. Todd McShay gave his list of 4 things that are necessary to be successful in the NFL draft and one of them was that if you're drafting in the top 10 you should basically target only 4 positions: quarterback, offensive tackle, cornerback and disruptive defensive linemen.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but those are the positions that he deemed worthy of the money that will have to be paid to a top 10 draft pick.

I certainly understand how a pass rush can make a corner look better than he is and on the other hand a good corner can make the pass rush look good as well.

Pappy

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

If Clark, Hampton, Colon, & Reed are here for 2010 (Which I expect) I would say...
1.CB
2.C
3.ILB

We need a new starter opposite Taylor for 2010. That is a given. An upgrade at C and a long term answer is needed coming out of training camp. Farrior can't play at a high level for an entire season. His replacement is needed and he needs to be in a rotation to help him be productive through the season and into the playoffs.

[Shawn]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

Weakest link,...i'd say the organization's weakest links are every single player that we have drafted and brought in as F/A's since Mike Tomlin became Head Coach. (with the exceptions of Woodley and Wallace)

Along with the fact that Tomlin is little more than a glorified motivational speaker whom must Kow-Tow to Roethlisberger so as to please a specific demographic of the Steeler fanbase. IMO

But,...for the sake of answering the question from a position standpoint ,....

ILB (Timmons,..as i have said since he was drafted,... is a Clown and Potsie isn't getting any younger )

CB (Again,.. Gay, Burnett, and Lewis are Clowns, Dshea's been running on fumes for years and Ike whom has always been somewhat suspect,..... is getting older)

S (I realy don't think i even need to speak upon how ridiculous Carter and Mundy are,.....and Clark is likely gone)

DT/DE (People ,..you do realize that Hood is not a 3-4 DE whom would only ever be average at best in his true position in 4-3 ?)

RB (Mwelde,.. though decent,... is a journeyman whom has little to offer the O in terms of impact. And we will neeeeever be able to control the clock with "twinkle toes" Mendenhall maybe breaking off one or two long runs and then proceed to average 2 yards per carry on his other rushing attempts, thereby Ben must be allowed to throw the ball for more than 25 "back yard " attempts.)

That about sums it up for me,...in fact i no longer even have the patience to sugar coat any more evaluations when it comes to Tomlin's "Gritz Gang" anymore,.....

Mr Czar, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.



Sorry watching Billy Madison...funny stuff.

But, I do disagree with most of what you said. I'm a Timmons fan...just not a fan of Timmons in the mack. Wrong position for him entirely. I think Tomlin is a terrific coach. We have no idea if Burnett or Lewis are "clowns" yet. Hood has potential to be a dominant 3-4 DE...and twinkle toes mendenhall? you can't be serious.

[steelz09]

Re: In your opinion, what is Steelers' weakest link?

I think CB was the weakest link last year but I don't necessarily think it will be this year (at least I'm hoping). None of our CB's last year could create a turnover. very disappointing...

However, I would bet the Steelers don't draft a CB in the 1st unless they trade down.

I do however think that Earl Thomas could be a very likely pick if available. He has position flexibility and could contribute immediately even if Ryan Clark is re-signed / tagged.

William Gay and Lewis will be competing for the #2 spot next season so .. I see the the backup CB's as:

Gay or Lewis (whoever loses that camp competition)
Burnett
Townsend (if he's brought back) / Veteran CB