For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Nah...it's definitely a myth. And still no one has been able to list players who, if the D were "less complicated", should be on the field instead of the vets.

And I'm in complete agreement on Carter. But that's a lack of having a capable back up at the position. There's just no where to go after Carter so it's him by default.

Ziggy should have been playing when Aaron Smith went down, but he needed to learn the Steeler defensive line way of taking on blockers before he was ready. It's not like the guys that were ahead of him are great players.

But this is beside the point. We need that D'Art guy around so he could explain the fallacy in your argument. Just because we don't have great young players doesn't mean the defense isn't complicated because you don't have names of rookies who should be playing. Those are 2 separate issues completely.

1. Is our defense complex?

2. Do we have any good young defenders on the bench?

Dear Flippy -

Please stop being logical. It only detracts from the discussions at hand!

[Slapstick]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

I guess my question would be why is it easier for a vet to pick up the system than a rookie? Ryan Clark didn't play in a 3-4 defense before he came to the Steelers. If our defense were that much more complicated than anybody elses defense then a player like Ryan Clark wouldn't be able to come in and contribute right away.

Free agent veterans can come in and start watching film and work on learning the defense immediately after signing their contract. If they sign in March, they have a significant learning curve advantage over rookies who aren't drafted until April and don't get any meaningful work in until they finally sign their contract sometime in June or July.

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

I guess my question would be why is it easier for a vet to pick up the system than a rookie? Ryan Clark didn't play in a 3-4 defense before he came to the Steelers. If our defense were that much more complicated than anybody elses defense then a player like Ryan Clark wouldn't be able to come in and contribute right away.

Free agent veterans can come in and start watching film and work on learning the defense immediately after signing their contract. If they sign in March, they have a significant learning curve advantage over rookies who aren't drafted until April and don't get any meaningful work in until they finally sign their contract sometime in June or July.

Not only that but vets are used to the speed of the game. they're used to playing against guys that are already at the highest level. college athletes go from playing a team like the citadal to LSU in the span of a week whereas pro athletes are going against the best of the best each week. you have to learn all those little things over again. because you can't rely on JUST your natural talent anymore.

[Slapstick]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Not only that but vets are used to the speed of the game. they're used to playing against guys that are already at the highest level. college athletes go from playing a team like the citadal to LSU in the span of a week whereas pro athletes are going against the best of the best each week. you have to learn all those little things over again. because you can't rely on JUST your natural talent anymore.

I agree...

But, even vets can't just walk in off the street and start, or even contribute...

How many snaps did Joey Galloway play this year?

[cruzer8]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

I guess my question would be why is it easier for a vet to pick up the system than a rookie? Ryan Clark didn't play in a 3-4 defense before he came to the Steelers. If our defense were that much more complicated than anybody elses defense then a player like Ryan Clark wouldn't be able to come in and contribute right away.

Free agent veterans can come in and start watching film and work on learning the defense immediately after signing their contract. If they sign in March, they have a significant learning curve advantage over rookies who aren't drafted until April and don't get any meaningful work in until they finally sign their contract sometime in June or July.

If you don't think those rookies are studying film and learning the D from the moment they're drafted then I don't think you have a very firm grasp of the process.

[Slapstick]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

If you don't think those rookies are studying film and learning the D from the moment they're drafted then I don't think you have a very firm grasp of the process.

Whether they do that or not, they are still a month behind...

[cruzer8]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Philly and Ike: nice posts. You guys summed it up to me perfectly as I don't believe in the too complicated myth either.

I would be interested then in alternative explanations on why our young players can't break into the line up until the 2 or 3 year mark on the defensive side of the ball?

The same issue doesn't appear to happen on the offensive side of the ball. Is Arians just a better coach at developing players or putting them in a position to suceed?

More holes to fill on offense than on defense. Also more personnel packages that allow different players to get on the field.

Seems like the scheme on the defense IS the problem. Can you disagree that it is better to give a player a couple of plays to rest? We don't even seem to do that except for DL.

Isn't a constant complaint of Arians and his offense that they don't do enough to "protect" the defense and last year it wore down late in games? Isn't that why we need a FB to run the clock out and control the ball since it is clear that a team with a quick strike offense can't make it to the Super Bowl or win

If the defense is getting tired why not put fresh young players in?

You need to start watching teams other than the Steelers. Every team plays it the way the Steelers play it. Rotate on the D line and the backers and secondary personnel remain the same unless the team is going nickel or dime.

To use an example from our own division, how often do you see Ray Lewis taken out for a breather when he's tired? The answer: you don't. The only time he comes off the field is when the Ravens are running a defensive package that does not include him,

And people keep bringing up Ziggy. Ziggy (like it has already been stated) played a different position in college and was taken as a project due to his athletic ability. So not only is he learning a new defense, he's also learning a new position in that new defense.

This whole argument is a big waste of cyber space. Including the part about FA's coming in earlier and "getting a jump" on learning the D.

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Not only that but vets are used to the speed of the game. they're used to playing against guys that are already at the highest level. college athletes go from playing a team like the citadal to LSU in the span of a week whereas pro athletes are going against the best of the best each week. you have to learn all those little things over again. because you can't rely on JUST your natural talent anymore.

I agree...

But, even vets can't just walk in off the street and start, or even contribute...

How many snaps did Joey Galloway play this year?

Oh absolutely. I never said they could. i just was saying that's a portion of the reason why rooks don't step off the bus at latrobe and are automatic starters.

[Slapstick]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

This whole argument is a big waste of cyber space. Including the part about FA's coming in earlier and "getting a jump" on learning the D.

Yeah, well that's just your opinion, man....

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

This whole argument is a big waste of cyber space. Including the part about FA's coming in earlier and "getting a jump" on learning the D.

Yeah, well that's just your opinion, man....

cruzer I think what they're saying is Free agency starts well ahead of the draft so players can start studying weeks in advance.
my point is that vets Know all the little things about the game: how to prepare your body (nutrition and working out), how fast the game is, how to study film, what to expect, adjusting to the life of a millionaire at 20... etc e

[ikestops85]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Nah...it's definitely a myth. And still no one has been able to list players who, if the D were "less complicated", should be on the field instead of the vets.

And I'm in complete agreement on Carter. But that's a lack of having a capable back up at the position. There's just no where to go after Carter so it's him by default.

Ziggy should have been playing when Aaron Smith went down, but he needed to learn the Steeler defensive line way of taking on blockers before he was ready. It's not like the guys that were ahead of him are great players.

But this is beside the point. We need that D'Art guy around so he could explain the fallacy in your argument. Just because we don't have great young players doesn't mean the defense isn't complicated because you don't have names of rookies who should be playing. Those are 2 separate issues completely.

1. Is our defense complex?

2. Do we have any good young defenders on the bench?

I agree that they are separate questions although I think they both should be re-phrased to the following:

1. Is our defense more complex than most others?

2. Do we have any rookies on the bench that should be a starter?

I think the answer to question 1 is a resounding NO. We have a lot of activity with our defense but I don't think it is inherently more complex than anybody elses.

I also think the answer to question 2 is NO. Hood was placed into the rotation after Smith was hurt but he didn't start. Hood is also learning a new position so I don't think he was ready for the full time responsibility of starting ... not when we have solid veterans as backups in that position.

I think teams that are consistently in the top 5 on offense or defense make it hard for rookies to crack the starting lineup. They generally don't have glaring weaknesses in any one area. I think that is why we see more rookies start on offense than defense for the steelers.

Besides, how complicated can our defense be when even I know what is going to happen. The dbs are going to line up 10 yards off the opponents receivers and the receivers are going to run an 8 yard out for a completion.

[stlrz d]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Nah...it's definitely a myth. And still no one has been able to list players who, if the D were "less complicated", should be on the field instead of the vets.

And I'm in complete agreement on Carter. But that's a lack of having a capable back up at the position. There's just no where to go after Carter so it's him by default.

Ziggy should have been playing when Aaron Smith went down, but he needed to learn the Steeler defensive line way of taking on blockers before he was ready. It's not like the guys that were ahead of him are great players.

But this is beside the point. We need that D'Art guy around so he could explain the fallacy in your argument. Just because we don't have great young players doesn't mean the defense isn't complicated because you don't have names of rookies who should be playing. Those are 2 separate issues completely.

1. Is our defense complex?

2. Do we have any good young defenders on the bench?

I agree that they are separate questions although I think they both should be re-phrased to the following:

1. Is our defense more complex than most others?

2. Do we have any rookies on the bench that should be a starter?

I think the answer to question 1 is a resounding NO. We have a lot of activity with our defense but I don't think it is inherently more complex than anybody elses.

I also think the answer to question 2 is NO. Hood was placed into the rotation after Smith was hurt but he didn't start. Hood is also learning a new position so I don't think he was ready for the full time responsibility of starting ... not when we have solid veterans as backups in that position.

I think teams that are consistently in the top 5 on offense or defense make it hard for rookies to crack the starting lineup. They generally don't have glaring weaknesses in any one area. I think that is why we see more rookies start on offense than defense for the steelers.

Besides, how complicated can our defense be when even I know what is going to happen. The dbs are going to line up 10 yards off the opponents receivers and the receivers are going to run an 8 yard out for a completion.

*ding*

[phillyesq]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

But, even vets can't just walk in off the street and start, or even contribute...

How many snaps did Joey Galloway play this year?

Galloway gut cut from the Pats* early in the season. He didn't sign until the last week. He didn't play much because he is a bum. With Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Heath and Mendy/Moore, the Steelers already had solid options for passing downs.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Not only that but vets are used to the speed of the game. they're used to playing against guys that are already at the highest level. college athletes go from playing a team like the citadal to LSU in the span of a week whereas pro athletes are going against the best of the best each week. you have to learn all those little things over again. because you can't rely on JUST your natural talent anymore.

I agree...

But, even vets can't just walk in off the street and start, or even contribute...

How many snaps did Joey Galloway play this year?

I think that is due to Joey Galloway being old as dirt. He was chilling on his couch at home for a reason.