For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

[stlrz d]

Please to be providing a list of players (along with explanations why) who should be on the field ahead of the guys who have proved they belong out there.

Thank you.

[Slapstick]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Please to be providing a list of players (along with explanations why) who should be on the field ahead of the guys who have proved they belong out there.

Thank you.

It's not a myth...

It isn't necessarily that you want your young players to be starting...it's that you want your young players to at least be able to contribute in a meaningful way...

Would guys like Keenan Lewis and Joe Burnett play better if the defensive scheme weren't so complicated? I think so...

Would Ziggy have made more plays earlier in the year if the assignments for the Steelers' DEs weren't so numerous? Perhaps...

Some players develop at different rates than others...it took Aaron Smith a year to figure out what he was doing...Brett Keisel didn't become a starter until his 5th season...it took Ike Taylor a while to find his way into the starting lineup...McFadden couldn't do it until year 4...

Is there a way to get the younger players on the field faster in the current scheme? There doesn't seem to be...

Hell, Timmons played behind Foote for two years...one due to an injury putting him behind...the other because Foote knew the defense better...

There is a pattern here...

[steelsnis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

I fall more on the stlrz d side of this debate. There is a reason that we are usually drafting in the latter parts of the rounds. It means we have a good team that generally finishes the season in the playoffs. This also means that you are RARELY gonna grab a guy that is going to step right in and contribute as a rookie.

In my mind, that's a GOOD thing. With Lewis and Burnett, what happened to patience??? These guys weren't late first rounders, they were 3rd and 5th round draft picks! Ziggy played as much as any defensive rookie in recent history, and that was more out of necessity than anything else due to injuries.

I know people love the "promise" that rookies bring, I do too, but this team's history shows that it's not always necessary to jam rooks into the starting lineup.

[feltdizz]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Please to be providing a list of players (along with explanations why) who should be on the field ahead of the guys who have proved they belong out there.

Thank you.

Is this a trick question? If someone thinks the D is too complicated he won't have a list of players because, well..it's too complicated for them.

I think the argument Oviedo (he is the one who repeats it constantly so I assume it's directed at him and those who agree with him) has is the D makes it so the young guys can't get ahead of the vets... yet the vets and Gay were getting torched.

Were Tyrone Carter and Deshea really worthy of roster spots or is it their knowledge of the D?

I agree our D is complicated.. but it is also the reason it's damn good once you grasp it.

My frustration is the drop off in basic football technique once Troy left. Guys were bumping into each other and couldn't even call the D before the snap. That is a problem. We were making the worst offenses in football look really good. I don't expect Troy's replacement to play Troy D. But I expect you to be in the TV frame when the ball is caught.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

First round pick Ziggy Hood not being able to start for an injured Aaron Smith. Travis Kirshke is a superior player?

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Felt, I agree, I couldn't believe how bad our technique was. and the defense standing around waiting for the offense to snap the ball and still not knowing what the defensive play call was? what the hell is that?
guys seem to want the blockbuster blue chip athelete that can come in and dominate as a rookie. sorry guys you're rooting for the wrong team, those players get picked early in the first round by teams that suck every year. I mean how many defensive guys have we even drafted in the first round in the last 10 years? it's not a whole lot, and those we did draft, with the exception of timmons, were late in the first round (I know troy was drafted early but he was a trade up scenario).

[feltdizz]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

My wish would be for our D too be complicated enough to confuse opposing D's but not so complicated we have to keep old vets past their prime...

Troy is the biblical reference of what Bad Word Lebeau's D is...
He is like the second coming of Lebeau in a young athletic body...

But if Troy goes down again... we need to have a scaled down D... and if this scaled down D is toast because it's all base on Troy we have a problem.

I'm just hoping it was one of those perfect storms where losing Troy exposed our youth who are one year from being ready.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

i can see both ides of the argumnt, and even started a thread on it refencing the green bay defense this past year with raji and clay mathews being big factors while playing a similiar defenive scheme.


the last rookies to make an immediate impact for the defense were hampton and KBell. ad that was before DL came back to coach with us.

i dont expect a 3rd (last pik of 3rd) lik lewis or a 5th lik burnett to contribute righ away, but find it a little puzzling why a top 2 rounder cant be a help right away

[SteelerNation1]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

My frustration is the drop off in basic football technique once Troy left. Guys were bumping into each other and couldn't even call the D before the snap. That is a problem. We were making the worst offenses in football look really good. I don't expect Troy's replacement to play Troy D. But I expect you to be in the TV frame when the ball is caught.

It was so obvious (especially being at the games) that a number of guys had NO IDEA what was going on pre snap. Guys were constantly screaming across the field and looked very confused...especially during the Raider game. I'm not blaming this on LeBeau's D being too complicated, I'm thinking more lack of prep/understanding of the game plan and/or adjustments.

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

My wish would be for our D too be complicated enough to confuse opposing D's but not so complicated we have to keep old vets past their prime...

Troy is the biblical reference of what Bad Word Lebeau's D is...
He is like the second coming of Lebeau in a young athletic body...

But if Troy goes down again... we need to have a scaled down D... and if this scaled down D is toast because it's all base on Troy we have a problem.

I'm just hoping it was one of those perfect storms where losing Troy exposed our youth who are one year from being ready.

MY wish for our TEAM would be to have backups that are capable.
after we lost troy it was like we had reed playing safety. and not ed reed.
too many of our guys that are backups shouldn't even be in the league.

[stlrz d]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Would guys like Keenan Lewis and Joe Burnett play better if the defensive scheme weren't so complicated? I think so...

Would Ziggy have made more plays earlier in the year if the assignments for the Steelers' DEs weren't so numerous? Perhaps...

To quote one of the greatest movie characters of all time, "Well that's like your opinion, man."

See, I can just as easily say they wouldn't have. The DBs were mid to late round picks. Ziggy was a project AND changing positions.

i can see both ides of the argumnt, and even started a thread on it refencing the green bay defense this past year with raji and clay mathews being big factors while playing a similiar defenive scheme.


the last rookies to make an immediate impact for the defense were hampton and KBell. ad that was before DL came back to coach with us.

i dont expect a 3rd (last pik of 3rd) lik lewis or a 5th lik burnett to contribute righ away, but find it a little puzzling why a top 2 rounder cant be a help right away

Green Bay is a bad example. They just switched to a 3-4 this year. And even though they just made that change Raji played in 14 of 16 games, starting only 1 of them and totaling only 25 tackles. He was taken 9th overall.

For Matthews, football is the family business and he's no typical rookie. His grandfather played in the NFL, his father played in the NFL as did his uncle. It's in their blood. Matthews not starting for the Packers would have been like Manning not starting for the Colts. And even for the first 3 games Matthews didn't start.

~~~

This is the NFL. Offenses are complicated for every team. Defenses are complicated for every team. Some guys pick it up faster than others. That's the way it is. Our D has been consistently stellar for quite some time. It's hard for rookies to get PT in a situation like that. Look at how late we typically draft as well, and the fact that because our D is so good we can take "project" guys and there you have it.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

Raji split time with pickett. in a constant rotation.


no i dont think the GB system is that much easier then ours.

for the most part, i believe if the Kid is that good (rookie year or not) he's going to see time on the field. for most of the players, there's a little adjustment period

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

People make it sound like the vets are just gonna sit down and die after a rook is drafted.
these guys are in the NFL and VETERANS for a reason. it's because they're pretty darn good football players themselves.

[feltdizz]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

People make it sound like the vets are just gonna sit down and die after a rook is drafted.
these guys are in the NFL and VETERANS for a reason. it's because they're pretty darn good football players themselves.

Tyrone Carter being our best option to replace Troy is unnacceptable.

[birtikidis]

Re: For those who buy into the "D is too complicated" myth

People make it sound like the vets are just gonna sit down and die after a rook is drafted.
these guys are in the NFL and VETERANS for a reason. it's because they're pretty darn good football players themselves.

Tyrone Carter being our best option to replace Troy is unnacceptable.

oh i absolutely agree.
I wouldn't let carter serve me a burger at mcdonalds. I've said it once and I'll say it again, he is by far the worst professional athlete that i've seen.