Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

[Oviedo]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

I have to go along with Pap and NJ (although nobody has ever confused me with having a great mind ). Our early picks should be on the D side of the ball -- anything other than OLB. Maybe if a stud O-lineman drops in the first we can consider but definitely NO skill player on the offense.

We have more than enough weapons on offense and we do a lousy job of utilizing them as it is. The last thing we need is another that we don't use.

Two years ago Moore was a machine at converting 3rd downs and this year we hardly looked at him. We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns? Uh, NO!! We have a TE who as a rookie catch 3 TDs in his first 3 games but do we target him in the red zone? Again, a resounding NO!!

Maybe when Arians and Ben figure out how to use the weapons we already have can we consider getting another one. Until that time I think our glaring need is lack of playmakers on the defensive side of the ball. That should be the focus for this draft.

You're following statement is exactly why we should consider CJ Spiller at #18 if he is available because you will be able to get legitimate production out of him at the RB position

We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns?

I'm not saying we will take Spiller because I think it is a slim possibility and no one is more of a defense first guy as me, but when you say we need:

playmakers on the defensive side of the ball

For when? 2011? Because we all know that those player won't do much in 2010. My argument is if you are drafting higher than we typically select in the draft, in Round 1 you can get a player that has an immediate impact. That won't happen if LeBeau gets that player.

All we ever heard on this board were complaints about Timmons not playing, "a bust for the #15 pick," etc, etc. But now we advocate putting another defensive rookie in the same situation picking just three picks later in the draft as he learns the overly complex scheme. Don't think for a second that you are going to get a player like Earl Thomas at #18 and just plug him into the Free Safety position in place of Ryan Clark (who came here as a 4 year veteran) and expect him to do what is required at that position, e.g. read what Troy is doing every play and adjust his positioning and reactions off of that. IMO no way that happens until at least 2011 because of how LeBeau runs the scheme.

Pick on defense at #18 and we are getting a 2011 player.

[Oviedo]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

Great analysis Chadman. But just because they have so many OL on the roster doesn't mean that they couldn't significantly upgrade the talent there. There are a lot of ways they could go in this draft. What you pointed out about our draft picks on CB's last year and Casey's status is probably dead on. Your "mock" draft is pretty intriguing. A lot of people are down on Mays. But a lot of people are fine with Clark if Troy is playing next to him. No one could convince me that Mays would not be an upgrade over Clark, especially when paired with Troy. Drafting a Center in the second fills another need early. Nice work. But I wouldn't be surprised if they took OL with both their first two picks, depending on what they do in free agency.

Unless we sign a starting caliber CB or FS in free agency the Steelers should not go OL with their first two draft picks, there are just way too many other holes to fill. We already have 10 OL on our roster returning next year (Starks, Colon, Kemoeatu, Essex, Hartwig, Foster, Urbik, Legursky, Stapleton, Hills) whereas we have no depth whatsoever at the safety position and a huge hole at CB opposite Ike Taylor. Do we really want to see Gay, Burnett, Lewis, Trae Williams or God forbid Anthony Madison starting there next year? No one will argue that we could use an upgrade on the OL but we need to choose either a safety or a CB in the first 2 rounds next year. When Bruce Gradkowski looks good against your secondary you know there is a problem.

While it is true that 10 OL will return next season, the likes of Legursky, Stapleton & Hills can hardly call themselves 'locks' to get out of Traiing Camp. And the Steelers desire to draft a young OC last season, and subsequent failure to do so, means that drafting an OC early this year is certainly not out of the question. Remember- who backs up Hartwig at this point?

At DB, it would seem 'unlikely' that the Steelers would give up on all the young CB's on the roster- Gay has 1 year of starting experience, Lewis & Burnett were rookies last year, Williams is promising (but no lock to make it out of Training Camp) & Madison is purely ST. Chances are they will draft a CB, but unless Haden falls to #18, or Robinson inspires a lot of confidence, look for rounds 3-4 for CB. Zero depth at Safety though, that means the Steelers will look EARLY at a safety, regardless of Clark leaving or staying.

Just to point out that this is not a good draft for Centers. After Pouncey it is unlikely that the rest are legit starters anytime in the near future. We probably already have better options at Center on the roster with Stapleton, Legursky and, from what I here, Urbik getting some reps there. Some mention Matt Tennant from BC but does anyone realize he is only 290lbs and gets knocked for getting pushed back. IMO he would survive in the AFC North.

The real question about the OL revolves around what they will do with Colon. I can't see any scenario where they don't tag him this year so that secures your RT position so any OT you draft will not play this season unless Colon moves to Guard or Colon or Starks go down to injury.

Therefore that leaves Guard where an upgrade to Essex would seem to be warranted. The best is Mike Iupati from Idaho who probably has the ability to play from Day 1, but do you draft a Guard at #18. If so, he had better be one of the best Guards ever...just my opinion. Plus don't forget you have Stapleton coming back with starters experience and Urbik with a year under his belt plus Legursky and Essex who both can play Guard. Seems crowded to me.

I just don't see us drafting OL unless it would be a OT and that means moving Colon to Guard. Just not a high likelihood in my mind. Plus don't underestimate the new OL coach who took far less talent that we have on the OL in Buffalo and turned them into a very serviceable OL. I don't think he get the #18 pick for his unit because they will want to see what he can do with what he has first.

[grotonsteel]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

I have to go along with Pap and NJ (although nobody has ever confused me with having a great mind ). Our early picks should be on the D side of the ball -- anything other than OLB. Maybe if a stud O-lineman drops in the first we can consider but definitely NO skill player on the offense.

We have more than enough weapons on offense and we do a lousy job of utilizing them as it is. The last thing we need is another that we don't use.

Two years ago Moore was a machine at converting 3rd downs and this year we hardly looked at him. We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns? Uh, NO!! We have a TE who as a rookie catch 3 TDs in his first 3 games but do we target him in the red zone? Again, a resounding NO!!

Maybe when Arians and Ben figure out how to use the weapons we already have can we consider getting another one. Until that time I think our glaring need is lack of playmakers on the defensive side of the ball. That should be the focus for this draft.

You're following statement is exactly why we should consider CJ Spiller at #18 if he is available because you will be able to get legitimate production out of him at the RB position

We have a punt and KO returner whom our own defensive players say is nearly impossible to bring down in space but do we get him the ball other than returns?

I'm not saying we will take Spiller because I think it is a slim possibility and no one is more of a defense first guy as me, but when you say we need:

[quote:2537ndpr]playmakers on the defensive side of the ball

For when? 2011? Because we all know that those player won't do much in 2010. My argument is if you are drafting higher than we typically select in the draft, in Round 1 you can get a player that has an immediate impact. That won't happen if LeBeau gets that player.

All we ever heard on this board were complaints about Timmons not playing, "a bust for the #15 pick," etc, etc. But now we advocate putting another defensive rookie in the same situation picking just three picks later in the draft as he learns the overly complex scheme. Don't think for a second that you are going to get a player like Earl Thomas at #18 and just plug him into the Free Safety position in place of Ryan Clark (who came here as a 4 year veteran) and expect him to do what is required at that position, e.g. read what Troy is doing every play and adjust his positioning and reactions off of that. IMO no way that happens until at least 2011 because of how LeBeau runs the scheme.

Pick on defense at #18 and we are getting a 2011 player.[/quote:2537ndpr]



With these so called complex Defensive Schemes which confuse Steelers young players we are not going to get any production from 1-18 Defensive player in 2010. It normally takes 2-3 years. So if you go all defense with first two picks in 2010 draft they are not going to help Steelers D in 2010.

My only hope is Art Rooney II has told Dick Lebeau to involve young players and tone down his so called complex schemes so that these young players on roster can contribute.

I am all for drafting Earl Thomas in 1st Rd. I believe he is the next close thing to Troy. I also like the trade Ruthlessburger suggested to draft Eric Berry at #10 if he falls that far.

Steelers will have to sign a FA CB maybe someone like Carlos Rogers to replace William Gay. Draft ILB and NT and make them learn behind Farrior and Big Snack.

[cruzer8]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

Our defensive starters range from solid to spectacular. It doesn't matter who we take or where we take them, they will not start because they are not needed to start.

Here's an example for you with the 3-4 scheme. Last year the Green Bay Packers took BJ Raji, NT, with the 9th overall pick. Raji played in 14 games but started only 1. And this was on a team that had no NT since they were just changing their scheme to the 3-4 with the addition of Dom Capers as DC.

[Jom112]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

Just to point out that this is not a good draft for Centers. After Pouncey it is unlikely that the rest are legit starters anytime in the near future.

J.D. Walton out of Baylor is not bad at all. I watched the Baylor/Nebraska game just to see how he would stack up against Suh and Nebraska's other dominate DT (Whose name eludes me at the moment).

I thought he did alright and held his own (Although the guards next to him sucked it up). Definitely worth a mid-round pick...

[papillon]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

Many of you are assuming that Lebeau's defense is too complex. Chances are the young players simply aren't good enough to replace one of the veterans. The only real head scratcher for me was Burnett and Lewis not being able to displace Gay. Mundy showed absolutely no possibility of being better than Carter or Clark. How do you play him then?

Earl Thomas is potentially an immediate upgrade based on what I've heard and read about him and watched him play one game late in the season when he had a handful of tackles, one for a loss and the others near the LOS. He also had a defensed pass and an INT. It appears that he has the skills to step in and help.

The young guys aren't getting playing time because they aren't good enough, unfortunately, this year, our veterans weren't good enough either.

Pappy

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

[Iron Shiek]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

Many of you are assuming that Lebeau's defense is too complex. Chances are the young players simply aren't good enough to replace one of the veterans. The only real head scratcher for me was Burnett and Lewis not being able to displace Gay. Mundy showed absolutely no possibility of being better than Carter or Clark. How do you play him then?

Earl Thomas is potentially an immediate upgrade based on what I've heard and read about him and watched him play one game late in the season when he had a handful of tackles, one for a loss and the others near the LOS. He also had a defensed pass and an INT. It appears that he has the skills to step in and help.

The young guys aren't getting playing time because they aren't good enough, unfortunately, this year, our veterans weren't good enough either.

Pappy

Come on Pap, just like us fans know what plays are being called on offense, we know more than the coaching staff regarding personnel decisions as well.

[Oviedo]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

No one said don't address the secondary which is weak, all I have offered is that it may not be the best value at #18 if you wait 18 months to see the benefits.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

thats fine.

we waited a year for troy to finally start and that worked out well.
OTOH, Bell started immediately and flamed out just as fast.


how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

[flippy]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

you can bring back mean joe, dewey white, reggie white and lawrence taylor and if gay/townsend/carter are on the field....they'll still get burnt

[NJ-STEELER]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

how much "worse" was the pass rush this year compared with last?

[Shawn]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

what you guys are missing is that the secondary is a weak spot. if they dont address it now, then we're looking at 2012 as to when we'll see improvement if we go by your logic that rookies dont play....which i feel is a little bit of a fallacy.

hampton, bell, mcfadden, woodley, anthony smith, and even Gay made contributions as rookies.
you have a point on timmons. although i think i rememebr he was one of the youngest players to be drafted that year and also had to learn a new position.

A 1st rd FS might not start right away, but if he's talented he'll play in nickel and dime defenses which contributes to the overall defense.

raji may not have started much , but he was used in a rotation. ryan pickett was rated as the 9th best NT (in a yearly magazine i get) so that may have effected raji playing time there.
what about their other 1st rd pick...clay matthews. he seemed to do pretty well as a rookie going to a 3-4 defense that plays a zone blitz scheme.

Ngata is another guy that thrived in a similar situation.

if the kid has the talent to play...he'll play

No one said don't address the secondary which is weak, all I have offered is that it may not be the best value at #18 if you wait 18 months to see the benefits.

O...I'm fairly surprised with your view on this. Best value doesn't equate to starting their rookie season. I would love for a rookie to be good enough to start but if I think they would need some time it certainly wouldn't keep me from taking him...ie Troy, Mendenhall.

[flippy]

Re: Mel Kiper's first 9 Mock Draft Selections

[quote=NJ-STEELER]

how would you improve the secondary then. not just for next year but the following years as well?

Improve the pass rush and the secondary will get better. I think that will happen with Hood (Year 2) and Smitty back. Plus healthy Troy makes it better too.

there's other rounds besides round 1 for drafting other players to contribute in future years.

and we can always hope to find a mike wallace in the rough.

how much "worse" was the pass rush this year compared with last?[/quote:3i7sdjvr]

I think it was night and day. the front 7 hurt without smith and i think woodley was hurt for the first half and harrison for some of the second half.

plus we seemed to bring less pressure without troy on the field. i can't quantify this, but it seemed like we were more conservative.