The "Steeler Way"

[feltdizz]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

I'm OK with Farrior in there.. he gets burned in coverage but he isn't Tyrone Carter bad.

I'm sorry but if Carter was all we had then Tomlin/Lebeau/Colbert are to blame. He is the worst and makes everyone around him worser!

I think Lebeau's scheme is great when healthy, young and 3 years in... I would like to see the youngsters earlier though...

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

A timely article I think. My thing with the 'Steeler Way' is this painfully ridiculous veteran favoritism where the vet under contract starts no matter what, even if he stinks, and the rookie or young player doesn't get a shot to start. It's like a civil service/union mentality. And frankly I see no difference between Tomlin and Cowher in this sense so I presume the front office has a hand in the Steeler way. There are so many examples over the years, too many to list. But this year alone you have a situation at center with a castoff veteran and undrafted backup. An intriguing player is drafted in good faith but not allowed to even dress for games so he essentially quits the Steelers and goes to Philly. And dudes like Farrior, Carter, ect., no matter how ridiculous their play they start and play the majority.

Now here's Art II and he makes these popular public remarks. Maybe he's a good guy and a football fan and is trying to guide the Steelers in a positive direction. On the other hand he also makes public remarks about signing Casey Hampton as a priorty. And he's the boss of the front office that signs aging veterans to lengthy high risk contracts. And there's these new investors like somebody mentioned above so maybe he's playing all sides like a politician. I don't know, I'm trying to gauge who he is and what he's about. But it's highly interesting that the 70+ years of silence by ownership is broken.

Cowher may have been guilty of that, but to insinuate that Tomlin is because he didn't start Shipley over Hartwig is laughable. Or that Farrior and Carter start simply because they are vets. Add that in too. They start because there is no one else.

I agree. There are some other factors involved. It is not a cut and dry situation. It is tough to have quality depth at every position on the team. Money, money, money tied up into the stars. Steelers were fortunate they had guys to step up and replace Smith. They were not so fortunate in having an adequate long term solution for Troy. I think Carter may be good for a game or two. Any longer then that and the flaws show up big time.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

I'm OK with Farrior in there.. he gets burned in coverage but he isn't Tyrone Carter bad.

I'm sorry but if Carter was all we had then Tomlin/Lebeau/Colbert are to blame. He is the worst and makes everyone around him worser!

I think Lebeau's scheme is great when healthy, young and 3 years in... I would like to see the youngsters earlier though...

I think Farrior is still a quality player. People sum up his season because he lost a couple of battles.

Carter had his moments this season. As I said before, he can't fill in for the long haul. I don't think any backup in the league can replace Polamalu.

I think back to A. Smith regarding younger players. They tried the kid on the field and he got burned. As a result, the fans burned Smith. He was probably put on the field before he was ready to play.

Lots of things have to be taken into consideration when talking about starting younger players. We get to see all the on field stuff. How well are they prepared with their off the field "games". How much did they prepare at the collegiate level? Will they watch film? Will they prepare like pros their first season? How ready and mature are they? Are they willing to listen to the vets? Most of these guys probably got over with pure talent at the college level. I don't think it is as cut and dry as throwing these guys in games. The light goes on for guys at different times.

[grotonsteel]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

A timely article I think. My thing with the 'Steeler Way' is this painfully ridiculous veteran favoritism where the vet under contract starts no matter what, even if he stinks, and the rookie or young player doesn't get a shot to start. It's like a civil service/union mentality. And frankly I see no difference between Tomlin and Cowher in this sense so I presume the front office has a hand in the Steeler way. There are so many examples over the years, too many to list. But this year alone you have a situation at center with a castoff veteran and undrafted backup. An intriguing player is drafted in good faith but not allowed to even dress for games so he essentially quits the Steelers and goes to Philly. And dudes like Farrior, Carter, ect., no matter how ridiculous their play they start and play the majority.

Now here's Art II and he makes these popular public remarks. Maybe he's a good guy and a football fan and is trying to guide the Steelers in a positive direction. On the other hand he also makes public remarks about signing Casey Hampton as a priorty. And he's the boss of the front office that signs aging veterans to lengthy high risk contracts. And there's these new investors like somebody mentioned above so maybe he's playing all sides like a politician. I don't know, I'm trying to gauge who he is and what he's about. But it's highly interesting that the 70+ years of silence by ownership is broken.

Cowher may have been guilty of that, but to insinuate that Tomlin is because he didn't start Shipley over Hartwig is laughable. Or that Farrior and Carter start simply because they are vets. Add that in too. They start because there is no one else.

The reason vet start because Steelers rookies are unable to grasp the Dick lebeau's so called complex schemes. His schemes are confusing Steelers players than opponent QBs.

About time Dick Lebeau throw that play book away for young guns and dumb down schemes so that they can contribute.

Make adjustments.

[grotonsteel]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

"We have some things we have to address," Rooney said. "I think No. 1, we have to get some of our younger players ready to go, and I think we have some young players who can step in and be contributors. I think we're all comfortable that there are some guys on the team now who can step in and make a difference next year."

The Colts had two rookie CBs starting last night's play off game but our defense is so freaking complex our rookies barely see the field. I guess that the Colts' defensive coord isn't a genius and therefore his defense is understandable and players can actually play it in a reasonable amount of time.

Drives me insane that we seem to be outsmarting only ourselves on defense.

Been saying that all along and Art Rooney II confirmed it.

[stlrz d]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

A timely article I think. My thing with the 'Steeler Way' is this painfully ridiculous veteran favoritism where the vet under contract starts no matter what, even if he stinks, and the rookie or young player doesn't get a shot to start. It's like a civil service/union mentality. And frankly I see no difference between Tomlin and Cowher in this sense so I presume the front office has a hand in the Steeler way. There are so many examples over the years, too many to list. But this year alone you have a situation at center with a castoff veteran and undrafted backup. An intriguing player is drafted in good faith but not allowed to even dress for games so he essentially quits the Steelers and goes to Philly. And dudes like Farrior, Carter, ect., no matter how ridiculous their play they start and play the majority.

Now here's Art II and he makes these popular public remarks. Maybe he's a good guy and a football fan and is trying to guide the Steelers in a positive direction. On the other hand he also makes public remarks about signing Casey Hampton as a priorty. And he's the boss of the front office that signs aging veterans to lengthy high risk contracts. And there's these new investors like somebody mentioned above so maybe he's playing all sides like a politician. I don't know, I'm trying to gauge who he is and what he's about. But it's highly interesting that the 70+ years of silence by ownership is broken.

Cowher may have been guilty of that, but to insinuate that Tomlin is because he didn't start Shipley over Hartwig is laughable. Or that Farrior and Carter start simply because they are vets. Add that in too. They start because there is no one else.

The reason vet start because Steelers rookies are unable to grasp the bad word lebeau's so called complex schemes. His schemes are confusing Steelers players than opponent QBs.

About time bad word Lebeau throw that play book away for young guns and dumb down schemes so that they can contribute.

Make adjustments.

They don't start because raw physical ability is not enough in any scheme.

[grotonsteel]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

[quote=stlrz d]

A timely article I think. My thing with the 'Steeler Way' is this painfully ridiculous veteran favoritism where the vet under contract starts no matter what, even if he stinks, and the rookie or young player doesn't get a shot to start. It's like a civil service/union mentality. And frankly I see no difference between Tomlin and Cowher in this sense so I presume the front office has a hand in the Steeler way. There are so many examples over the years, too many to list. But this year alone you have a situation at center with a castoff veteran and undrafted backup. An intriguing player is drafted in good faith but not allowed to even dress for games so he essentially quits the Steelers and goes to Philly. And dudes like Farrior, Carter, ect., no matter how ridiculous their play they start and play the majority.

Now here's Art II and he makes these popular public remarks. Maybe he's a good guy and a football fan and is trying to guide the Steelers in a positive direction. On the other hand he also makes public remarks about signing Casey Hampton as a priorty. And he's the boss of the front office that signs aging veterans to lengthy high risk contracts. And there's these new investors like somebody mentioned above so maybe he's playing all sides like a politician. I don't know, I'm trying to gauge who he is and what he's about. But it's highly interesting that the 70+ years of silence by ownership is broken.

Cowher may have been guilty of that, but to insinuate that Tomlin is because he didn't start Shipley over Hartwig is laughable. Or that Farrior and Carter start simply because they are vets. Add that in too. They start because there is no one else.

The reason vet start because Steelers rookies are unable to grasp the bad word lebeau's so called complex schemes. His schemes are confusing Steelers players than opponent QBs.

About time bad word Lebeau throw that play book away for young guns and dumb down schemes so that they can contribute.

Make adjustments.

They don't start because raw physical ability is not enough in any scheme.[/quote:a7c6sbem]

If K Lewis/Burnett can't start over william gay/townsend then Steelers do need to worry.

I believe its coaches responsibility to utilize the talent in hand especially when there is injury.

[feltdizz]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

"We have some things we have to address," Rooney said. "I think No. 1, we have to get some of our younger players ready to go, and I think we have some young players who can step in and be contributors. I think we're all comfortable that there are some guys on the team now who can step in and make a difference next year."

The Colts had two rookie CBs starting last night's play off game but our defense is so freaking complex our rookies barely see the field. I guess that the Colts' defensive coord isn't a genius and therefore his defense is understandable and players can actually play it in a reasonable amount of time.

Drives me insane that we seem to be outsmarting only ourselves on defense.

Been saying that all along and Art Rooney II confirmed it.

I think this season was proof our young guys are raw but can have an impact if given the chance earlier. Burnett dropped an easy INT... but at least he saw the ball, I think...

Ziggy and Eason looked good this season and Wallace stepped up nice on O. Not sure how young Eason is...

I think our method with the vets worked well for years but now other teams youngsters are outrunning out vets. Young legs trump veteran wisdom out in space.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

Not sure how young Eason is...

Eason is 29 with 7 years of NFL experience.

[feltdizz]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

I'm OK with Farrior in there.. he gets burned in coverage but he isn't Tyrone Carter bad.

I'm sorry but if Carter was all we had then Tomlin/Lebeau/Colbert are to blame. He is the worst and makes everyone around him worser!

I think Lebeau's scheme is great when healthy, young and 3 years in... I would like to see the youngsters earlier though...

I think Farrior is still a quality player. People sum up his season because he lost a couple of battles.

Carter had his moments this season. As I said before, he can't fill in for the long haul. I don't think any backup in the league can replace Polamalu.

I think back to A. Smith regarding younger players. They tried the kid on the field and he got burned. As a result, the fans burned Smith. He was probably put on the field before he was ready to play.

Lots of things have to be taken into consideration when talking about starting younger players. We get to see all the on field stuff. How well are they prepared with their off the field "games". How much did they prepare at the collegiate level? Will they watch film? Will they prepare like pros their first season? How ready and mature are they? Are they willing to listen to the vets? Most of these guys probably got over with pure talent at the college level. I don't think it is as cut and dry as throwing these guys in games. The light goes on for guys at different times.

Farrior has lost a step but he isn't as bad as the Rice play or the Bengals play. He is a target though.. Maybe we need Fox in on 4th and whatevers..

I think Smith burned himself when he kept hitting our WR's in practice.

I don't think anyone is saying play the rookies to prove a point. I think it's when the vet or starter is slow and ineffective.... we would like to see the rookie get a shot. Especially the 1st and 2nd rounders.

[feltdizz]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

I'm OK with Farrior in there.. he gets burned in coverage but he isn't Tyrone Carter bad.

I'm sorry but if Carter was all we had then Tomlin/Lebeau/Colbert are to blame. He is the worst and makes everyone around him worser!

I think Lebeau's scheme is great when healthy, young and 3 years in... I would like to see the youngsters earlier though...

I think Farrior is still a quality player. People sum up his season because he lost a couple of battles.

Carter had his moments this season. As I said before, he can't fill in for the long haul. I don't think any backup in the league can replace Polamalu.

I think back to A. Smith regarding younger players. They tried the kid on the field and he got burned. As a result, the fans burned Smith. He was probably put on the field before he was ready to play.

Lots of things have to be taken into consideration when talking about starting younger players. We get to see all the on field stuff. How well are they prepared with their off the field "games". How much did they prepare at the collegiate level? Will they watch film? Will they prepare like pros their first season? How ready and mature are they? Are they willing to listen to the vets? Most of these guys probably got over with pure talent at the college level. I don't think it is as cut and dry as throwing these guys in games. The light goes on for guys at different times.

Farrior has lost a step but he isn't as bad as the Rice play or the Bengals play. He is a target though.. Maybe we need Fox in on 4th and whatevers..

I think Smith burned himself when he kept hitting our WR's in practice.

I don't think anyone is saying play the rookies to prove a point. I think it's when the vet or starter is slow and ineffective.... we would like to see the rookie get a shot. Especially the 1st and 2nd rounders.

[SteelStallion]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

Some great comments here. Very persuasive, hard to argue with. But I'll try
(And I need a break from watching other people's teams in the playoffs )

This is one of the worst Ds they've put out in years and maybe their worst pass coverage ever- getting torched by the worst, most suck qbs in the league. Gimme a break, there are absolutely clear cut cases of dudes who clearly cannot play, clearly have no upside or are downright old, clearly will not be part of any championship run, and where younger players got nowhere near as much of a shot to play as the could have. And even if they struggled it would have been better off. And these bits about 'too complex, not ready,' ect., might apply sometimes, but other times sound like fan rationalizations to make themselves feel better about it. Not saying go to the wreckless extreme about it, just suggesting the Steelers are at the lower end of the curve (or 'below the line' as Tomlin would put it) and could be slightly more aggressive with the young players when the situation (like this year) arises. A number of fans feel that way, certainly Art II does, and so does Shipley- to the poster above, I didn't say he should have started, but clearly he felt the need to leave and another team liked him and found a place for him, and our starter who is a castoff from another team and cannot open a hole in playoff caliber fashion, got an extension- sure smells a little like veteranism.

Anyway sorry if too windy or sound too critical. Love the Steelers and the steeler way, just think they could improve in this one area. Wishing them good luck this offseason.

[stlrz d]

Re: The "Steeler Way"

Some great comments here. Very persuasive, hard to argue with. But I'll try
(And I need a break from watching other people's teams in the playoffs )

This is one of the worst Ds they've put out in years and maybe their worst pass coverage ever- getting torched by the worst, most suck qbs in the league. Gimme a break, there are absolutely clear cut cases of dudes who clearly cannot play, clearly have no upside or are downright old, clearly will not be part of any championship run, and where younger players got nowhere near as much of a shot to play as the could have. And even if they struggled it would have been better off. And these bits about 'too complex, not ready,' ect., might apply sometimes, but other times sound like fan rationalizations to make themselves feel better about it. Not saying go to the wreckless extreme about it, just suggesting the Steelers are at the lower end of the curve (or 'below the line' as Tomlin would put it) and could be slightly more aggressive with the young players when the situation (like this year) arises. A number of fans feel that way, certainly Art II does, and so does Shipley- to the poster above, I didn't say he should have started, but clearly he felt the need to leave and another team liked him and found a place for him, and our starter who is a castoff from another team and cannot open a hole in playoff caliber fashion, got an extension- sure smells a little like veteranism.

Anyway sorry if too windy or sound too critical. Love the Steelers and the steeler way, just think they could improve in this one area. Wishing them good luck this offseason.

My bad. You're right.