Lebeau or Personale

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

Kinda go hand in hand guys. You don't see a pass rush because the ball is coming out early...Because we can't cover. Been the same all season. If the QB has to go to his 3rd read or you see him pat the ball...We get there. Other than that...Ball is out. To the other side...DL blitz packages on passing down come to no surprise to any team...Any more. When you blitz and it is picked up...Secondary is short. Then our below average coverage guys are exposed even more. So to the topic question...Both.

[RussBII]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

The Steelers' D is too Polamalu centric...

He covers up too many mistakes made by the DBs...and sometimes the front seven as well...

Don't forget Aaron Smith is out too. The LBs/pass rush are totally predicated on the DL and Secondary doing their jobs... if those jobs don't get done, the pass rush has almost no chance.

[NorthCoast]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

I don't agree that it was a lack of pass rush that the secondary was exposed. There were just to many GB receivers wide open from the very start of the play. There still seems to be communication problems and I am wondering whether Carter especially, really knows the playbook. He seems so out of position on so many plays.

For those wanting McFadden back, he is not the answer for the Cardinals either. No INTs this year and I believe I read that he is one of the most abused CBs in the league in terms of completion percentage. Gay is playing with a complete lack of confidence and for a CB that is the kiss of death. Not sure if he can be coached out of it, but it will be a long off-season for him.

[Jooser]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

I don't think it's ALL due to the lack of a pass rush. But, yesterday, AR had all day in the pocket after the first quarter. Until then, we were at least hitting him as he released the ball. The rush really fizzled out after that. I don't know if it's that we were pooped out, or if GB made some good adjustments and stymied us. I make no excuses for the abhorrent play of our secondary. There are too many missed tackles, and the DBs are rarely in the correct position to make a decent play on the ball. It's as if they're always playing catch up or something. It's just so darned troublesome to me. I keep thinking, ok, here we go, we're gonna turn it around and someone's gonna make a play. Then, nothing, just the same old stuff.

[NWNewell]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

The Steelers' D is too Polamalu centric...

He covers up too many mistakes made by the DBs...and sometimes the front seven as well...

It's not Polamalu centric schematically.

It's just that most of our secondary is so poor and he is so good that it's a completely different coverage unit with him in there vs out.

And he has such great athleticism and instincts, that he is just that big of a difference maker in our defense.

Face it, he's just that good, and the rest of our secondary is just that bad.

[NorthCoast]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

Oh, and one other thing, Rodgers happens to be a pretty damn good quarterback and is best in the league on 3rd down. He's made a few DBs look foolish this season...

[feltdizz]

Re: Lebeau or Personal

As more and more teams have gone to the 3-4 opponents are not surprised anymore. They know how to attck it because they are seeing it 8-10 times per year and for many teams they are practicing against it because that is what they run on their own defense.

Add to that that holding on pass plays is almost never called and you therefore take away the most important element required to make LeBeau's defense work...pressure on the QB. Without pressure on the QB the opponents WRs have time to find holes in the zone coverage defense where the DBs.

Personally, I think we have personnel better suited play an attacking 4-3 defense but that is an emotional debate that has been discussed many time here. I respect LeBeau for all he has done but really believe we need to seriously consider going in another direction.

you are like.. the rain man for the 4-3 Ovie... lol, i'm joking.

regarding the thread question it is both... this season D reminds me of the genius in the office who is exposed when his assistant leaves and we find out the assistant was the real genius. That guy is Troy and LeBeau has our D centered around Troy.. and rightfully so.. just seems crazy that our DB's are this bad without him.

It's not the pass rush either.. I think GB made good adjustments in blocking and Rodgers is like Cutler with his mobility and we struggle when the QB can move.. Rodgers is no slouch

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

It's both LeBeau and the personnel.

Polamalu is good, but this defense would still be struggling mightily even if he was playing, IMO. Upgrades are needed at 5 or 6 positions...some players are slowing down due to age, and some just weren't that good to begin with (ie., Gay).

As for LeBeau, he has obviously dialed back the pressure, and kept the soft coverage, and it isn't working.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

I really think they need to install a different package in passing situations. I think Timmons is a great cover guy but he could bring alot more to the table on passing downs. We need to help our secondary with some speed blitzing. We have seen this all over the league as of late. They need to have Keisel play over the center. He is the only DL. Woodley, Harrison, Timmons, Farrior, & Fox all need to be on the field. Yo have to find ways to get Woodley, Harrison, & Timmons running at the QB. Having 5 LBs in rush position would create some confusion. They are fielding 2-3 DL and we know they won't be in coverage. I like what Capers was doing and that would play into the strengths of the Steelers too. It is a copycat league and I hope DL sees what I saw when he watches film. Overloading a side & Flashing 3 LBs on a G & T changes things pre-snap. Keisel's only job is to cut off the Cs protection roll and then get his hands up. They could do so many things and right now the LBs are by far the strongest group on this D.

[Oviedo]

Re: Lebeau or Personal

As more and more teams have gone to the 3-4 opponents are not surprised anymore. They know how to attck it because they are seeing it 8-10 times per year and for many teams they are practicing against it because that is what they run on their own defense.

Add to that that holding on pass plays is almost never called and you therefore take away the most important element required to make LeBeau's defense work...pressure on the QB. Without pressure on the QB the opponents WRs have time to find holes in the zone coverage defense where the DBs.

Personally, I think we have personnel better suited play an attacking 4-3 defense but that is an emotional debate that has been discussed many time here. I respect LeBeau for all he has done but really believe we need to seriously consider going in another direction.

you are like.. the rain man for the 4-3 Ovie... lol, i'm joking.

regarding the thread question it is both... this season D reminds me of the genius in the office who is exposed when his assistant leaves and we find out the assistant was the real genius. That guy is Troy and LeBeau has our D centered around Troy.. and rightfully so.. just seems crazy that our DB's are this bad without him.

It's not the pass rush either.. I think GB made good adjustments in blocking and Rodgers is like Cutler with his mobility and we struggle when the QB can move.. Rodgers is no slouch

Like rain water on a rock. Eventually you wear it away.

Seriously, I just want an objective assessment and that we don't stick with the 3-4 just because LeBeau is around. If LeBeau leaves, and I think he will, there needs to be a decision made. Many mistake my advocacy for the 4-3 as one that something gets better. That is not the case although I don't think we can be just as great in the 4-3.

I support the 4-3 because I strongly believe it is easier to get players out of college to restock and build depth your talent. The 3-4 requires getting projects and "unique" talents like NT. The talent pool for 4-3 players is just deeper. We discard half the DL prospects coming out of coilege because they are 4-3 DEs and don't have the size to play 3-4 DE and we have to take a couple of years to teach them a new position. I think much of the depth issues we have on the defense is directly related to the 3-4.

This will not get any better. As more colleges go to the spread offense you will see more speed rushers on the DL at DE and more pass coverage LBs. Neither fit the 3-4.

[NW Steeler]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

Well said Oviedo. We may not have the current personnel to switch to the 4-3, but I can't see that it wouldn't take more than a year or two to get all the pieces into place. If LeBeau does retire, I bet the switch will happen sooner rather than later. And as far as teams having the 4-3 or 3-4 "figured out", who cares. I'd rather we just beat the team across from us with sheer talent. It may take a combination of draft and free agency to solve our secondary problems.

[steelblood]

Re: Lebeau or Personal

It's the lack of pass rush. The most sacked QB in the league had all day to pass the ball. Any DBs will get beat when the QB has time in the pocket.

money post. we all know how critical the loss of aaron smith was. if our front 3 don't take up 5 guys, our LB's can't get pressure and our CB's get exposed.

It didn't help that there was no pass rush, but Gay was terrible again. They picked on him mercilessly (at one point they threw at him three or four times in a row). Many times he was beaten by quick passes that would have worked even if our blitzers were getting pressure. Also, Gay's tackling has gone from very good to dreadful.

Joe Burnett, who I still have hopes for was also picked on. He gave up some plays, but he usually gets turned around to find the ball while Gay often is beat without ever seeing the ball.

[SteelAbility]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

Loss of Smith, arguably our best run-stuffer (Maybe a case for Hampton) + Loss of Polamalu, definitely our best pass defender = A mediocre, or, at best, slightly better than average D.

If we lost one OR the other, I think we'd be much better. Smith's run-stuffing would make the passing more predictable. Polamalu just takes away all kinds of stuff that normally works and, again, makes the offense more predictable.

It boils down to how predictable you can force the O to be. We lost our two main pieces in that chess game.

[BATMAN]

Re: Lebeau or Personale

I realize we have injuries the leads to some of our defensives woes but, my worry or worries are mounting about some of the players.

Smith, Hampton, Farrior and Troy are a few of my all time favorite Steelers.
I hold Smith and Farrior in my Steeler heart because, Smith wasn't a number on pick but has played like one from the start. You have to love a guy that is the unsong hero for so many seasons.
Farrior was a steal in my opinion. I enjoyed knowing that we got a number one pick from another team that responded or showed his worth as a number one pick for our Steelers when, the Jets felt he was not worth retaining or whatever the case may be. Farrior had become the mental leader of our defense had it not been the conditioned love that Ray Lewis gets, Farrior should have made more pro-bowls. Sad but true, Farrior has seemed to lost the edge/step in his older age and we need youth in his position.
Lets take a look back at Aaron Smith once again. The dude is a stud and no one can argue that but, the injury he has in my opnion is a sign of his age. More injuries, more often and longer to recover once players get old. Smith is no young pup and I'm guessing he will be on the decline too.
Hampton has a lot of heart and to me, has had a decent season but again, he isn't the player that he was in his prime and he will be on his decline.
Troy is the best ever but how many season will he be out due to his style of play ?
It's not really even that, how long can Troy be a factor to a bunch of guys in the secondary that can't get the job done. At some point Troy will be too old or moving on and we will really be in trouble without him like this season. I think we should have better secondary players that do not rely upon Troy to be capable to do their job.

Ryan Clark isn't all that either this season and I guess he too depended on Troy to make his own position or play better.

No interceptions from our secondary other than Troy for the entire season, that is beyond sad. That tells me it is the players and not Lebeau. I always thought that but, what more proof would one need if they had their doubts of coaching vs. players ?