LeBeau is the problem

[feltdizz]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

THIS POST IS A JOKE

[LouSteel]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

That is an easy claim to make when your defense is missing two of its best players. Troy alone makes plays that would've ended games that turned out to be losses.

If our defensive mastermind's scheme is predicated solely on Troy's play, he should've been fired a long time ago.

Troy is a freaking stud, that's fine. He wins games single-handedly. No argument. But one SS is not solely responsible for holding off three passing TDs from a team that had thrown five all season!

[NWNewell]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

It's not LeBeau.... It's partially the absense of Troy.

The problem is we have no depth at the secondary. Ike Taylor is our only CB (sure he has some problems, but he's pretty solid). Clark is a solid safety, but after than we have no one else without Troy in there.

Troy has the ability to make up for the short comings at our other CB position. But without him, not only is our other CB much more exposed, but now we have much weaker safety play to boot.

You saw where 90% of the passes were going.... Gay, Mundy, Carter. Everyone knows they are terrible and the secondary is getting thorched.

On the one TD pass Ike got beat one... Carter was suppose to be safety help on the inside, but he bit on the play fake and left Ike hanging out to dry.

Carter wasn't even close to covering a WR on a second TD pass.

Two TD's were primarly given up by Carter. Don't tell me we don't miss Troy. Say anything you want about how one player shouldn't make that big of a difference, etc, etc. But most good teams hing one 2-3 great players. When one of those players is arguably the best defensive player in the league, you are not going to be the same without him in there. Should they still have made more plays and been able to beat the freakin' Raiders. Of course! There is no excuse for that lose. But I don't care how good your scheme is... if your player's can't (or don't) make plays, it's not going to matter.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Chuck Noll says there's an opening in the assisted living facility where he lives...if LeBeau
goes right now he can have it.

[SteelCzar76]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Coach Lebeau is one of the greatest defensive minds to have ever graced the game. THE PROBLEM,...is sub par personnel. Nothing more,...nothing less.

[JUST-PLAIN-NASTY]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Well...Here is my feelings from another tread.

[url="http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9356&start=15"]viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9356&start=15[/url]


The thing that concerns me is this is the 3rd time it was nationally reported that the plays got in late or there was confusion. Now, I fail to believe that they would be the only 3 times a play was late getting in. All on hurry up. So if this happens more in the game and DL is making the play calls........

I'm just saying.

There was clear confusion on the plays referenced. I'm not going to throw DL under the bus because he has meant everything to the Steelers and will be a HOF player...But there comes a time in a coaches career...Where things don't come to you as quickly. Being around football...A great football mind needs to a decisive football mind that makes a decision within seconds. I can't believe this thought came into my head again on Sunday. But evidence is hard to look away from. We haven't heard problem with Farrior's helmet or radios were down...We heard the play didn't get to everyone. That means there was a delay from the sideline. I haven't said anything in the past but football knowledge leads me to believe what my eyes see. 4th quarter collapses out of hurry up and calls not getting to the players adds up to something to me. When DL can call plays based on down & distance he looks to be unstoppable. Add in the urgency factor being dictated by the offense...The secondary seems to collapse. The players love & respect DL as well as myself. He is great and always will be in my mind....BUT...To no fault of DL...The mind doesn't fire at the same rate forever! Forgive me for saying that DL..........


I also read between the lines of Tomlin's quote.
"Nothing stays the same in this game," Tomlin said. "Players are ascending, players are descending. People catch up with schemes, schemes evolve. Playing and coaching, this thing is ever-changing."

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d814cba55&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true"]http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true[/url]

DL retiring after this season will tell me if what I'm seeing is true. As a true Steeler fan...Love ya DL!

[Oviedo]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Coach Lebeau is one of the greatest defensive minds to have ever graced the game. THE PROBLEM,...is sub par personnel. Nothing more,...nothing less.

But I thought just like on offense it isn't the players it is calls the coordinator is making? Am I wrong or is it different on defense? Doesn't he prepare them for the opponents?Doesn't LeBeau makes the calls on the defensive backfield and what scheme they are playing on any given play? Isn't LeBeau responsible for making adjustmemts both during games and between games to eliminate negative results?

Sorry but LeBeau cannot get a pass on any of this and deserves to be ripped just like Arians. Arians didn't get a pass when Kemo was out. Arians didn't get a pass when ben was out. If LeBeau designed his defense and it falls apart when one player (Troy) is out of the line up that would seem to me to be pretty bad planning and judgement.

Don't mistake me for a LeBeau hater because I have nothing but respect for anyone who can coach at that level because they are smarter than I will ever be. I just overplay this to make a point that we have a double standard in perceptions on this board about our coordinators. This is probably because we have grown up worshipping defense as Steelers fans so anyone assocuiated with it is given a higher status in our perceptions. But, the goal should be winning...period. Even if you are a "legend" if you aren't getting the job done you need to be critically assessed.

I state this to make a point that because a "legend" has made his mark using a specific defense maybe we are holding on to it a bit too long to the deference of the "legend" when we don't have the right personnel to execute it no matter what the stats and rankings say.

What we have to consider is the performance of the defense this season an anomoly or an indicator of a trend given the personnel we have. Given what happened for 6 games I think it is more than an anomoly. There are systemic issues that need to be fixed.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

I still don't understand how you think switching from a 3-4 base defense to a 4-3 base defense is going to correct the fact that teams are able to throw on us late in games. In each of these instances, they are throwing against our nickel or dime defense (both of which utilize 4 down lineman, by the way), not our base 3-4. If we ran a 4-3 base instead of a 3-4 base, they would still be throwing the ball against our nickel or dime defense late in the game. The problem comes because we have to have 5 or 6 DB's on the field at the same time, when he only have maybe 2 adequate DB's with Troy out (Gay's a weakness, Deshea's a weakness, Carter's a weakness, Mundy's a weakness, and Ike and Clark have been barely adequate recently). Switching the front 7 from having 4 linebackers to having 4 d-lineman in our base set will not fix this whatsoever...we just have to hope that Lewis and Burnett are able to pan out and that we draft some quality depth at safety. Our base 3-4 defense is fine (teams cannot run against, it, and it tends to hold teams to very few points through 3 quarters until the nickel and dime sub packages blow it in the 4th when the other team goes pass-happy trying to catch up).

[Oviedo]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

I still don't understand how you think switching from a 3-4 base defense to a 4-3 base defense is going to correct the fact that teams are able to throw on us late in games. In each of these instances, they are throwing against our nickel or dime defense (both of which utilize 4 down lineman, by the way), not our base 3-4. If we ran a 4-3 base instead of a 3-4 base, they would still be throwing the ball against our nickel or dime defense late in the game. The problem comes because we have to have 5 or 6 DB's on the field at the same time, when he only have maybe 2 adequate DB's with Troy out (Gay's a weakness, Deshea's a weakness, Carter's a weakness, Mundy's a weakness, and Ike and Clark have been barely adequate recently). Switching the front 7 from having 4 linebackers to having 4 d-lineman in our base set will not fix this whatsoever...we just have to hope that Lewis and Burnett are able to pan out and that we draft some quality depth at safety. Our base 3-4 defense is fine (teams cannot run against, it, and it tends to hold teams to very few points through 3 quarters until the nickel and dime sub packages blow it in the 4th when the other team goes pass-happy trying to catch up).

I have no idea whether Im right and I just express an opinion/preference. IMO I prefer the line play of a 4-3 defense where the DL attackes more than our does in the 3-4. You are as knowledgeable as anyone on this board and watching games both of us can predict with 80+% accuracy exactly when Harrison and Woodley are going to rush the passer. Every opponent can see the same thing and they are counteracting it more and more. They know to throw to the space vacated by our OLBs and let the receivers make yards after the catch.

If you think it is just the use of nickle and dime defense that is responsible for late game collapses why does our DC not see that and insist on doing it over and over and over? he is one of the most respected defensive minds in football but he does the same thing that fails over and over. If we were talking offense we would be talking about Arians being stubborn and unable to make adjustments during the game.

I have no idea whether a 4-3 would be better. However, I don't think it could be worse primarily because IMO it would be easier to restock talent and we could get that talent in games contributing sooner versus waiting one to two years to learn the complexity of the defense or have to essentially learn a new position because we are converting DE to OLBs and DTs to DEs. IMO if we had played the 4-3 Ziggy would had been playing since Day 1 as part of a DT rotation. Now 12 games into the season we are just starting to see him get into games.

[SteelBucks]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

I still don't understand how you think switching from a 3-4 base defense to a 4-3 base defense is going to correct the fact that teams are able to throw on us late in games. In each of these instances, they are throwing against our nickel or dime defense (both of which utilize 4 down lineman, by the way), not our base 3-4. If we ran a 4-3 base instead of a 3-4 base, they would still be throwing the ball against our nickel or dime defense late in the game. The problem comes because we have to have 5 or 6 DB's on the field at the same time, when he only have maybe 2 adequate DB's with Troy out (Gay's a weakness, Deshea's a weakness, Carter's a weakness, Mundy's a weakness, and Ike and Clark have been barely adequate recently). Switching the front 7 from having 4 linebackers to having 4 d-lineman in our base set will not fix this whatsoever...we just have to hope that Lewis and Burnett are able to pan out and that we draft some quality depth at safety. Our base 3-4 defense is fine (teams cannot run against, it, and it tends to hold teams to very few points through 3 quarters until the nickel and dime sub packages blow it in the 4th when the other team goes pass-happy trying to catch up).

$$$

[ramblinjim]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Chuck Noll says there's an opening in the assisted living facility where he lives...if LeBeau
goes right now he can have it.

This is a cheap shot DL looks great for someone at fifty, let alone 70, show some respect.

[RockyMountainSteeler]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

I still don't understand how you think switching from a 3-4 base defense to a 4-3 base defense is going to correct the fact that teams are able to throw on us late in games. In each of these instances, they are throwing against our nickel or dime defense (both of which utilize 4 down lineman, by the way), not our base 3-4. If we ran a 4-3 base instead of a 3-4 base, they would still be throwing the ball against our nickel or dime defense late in the game. The problem comes because we have to have 5 or 6 DB's on the field at the same time, when he only have maybe 2 adequate DB's with Troy out (Gay's a weakness, Deshea's a weakness, Carter's a weakness, Mundy's a weakness, and Ike and Clark have been barely adequate recently). Switching the front 7 from having 4 linebackers to having 4 d-lineman in our base set will not fix this whatsoever...we just have to hope that Lewis and Burnett are able to pan out and that we draft some quality depth at safety. Our base 3-4 defense is fine (teams cannot run against, it, and it tends to hold teams to very few points through 3 quarters until the nickel and dime sub packages blow it in the 4th when the other team goes pass-happy trying to catch up).

$$$

Couldn't agree more.

How many times last year did our players come up with game changing interceptions? I can think of at least 4. TP against the Chargers diving int, TP game clinching int against Baltimore in the AFC Championship, DT int to wint the game against Dallas and Harrison's int in the Super Bowl. DL put his players in position to make plays last year and he has done the same thing this year except our players are dropping the ball. Our DBs have dropped way too many ints that would have changed outcomes of games this year.

Does it make a difference that Troy and Arron Smith are out of the lineup? Definately. It does not make a difference what scheme we are running up front if our guys on the back end don't make the play. When DL does decide to step down we can look at whatever scheme the new DC wants to run but to say DL needs to go or we need to switch defenses is just wrong. Hopefully Lewis and Burnett can show some promise at the end of the season and we can draft accordingly but the simple and plain fact is that our players need to make the plays when given the chance and so far this year they have failed to do so.

[flippy]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Having seen them live, you can definitely see defensive plays not getting in on time.

[SteelCzar76]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Coach Lebeau is one of the greatest defensive minds to have ever graced the game. THE PROBLEM,...is sub par personnel. Nothing more,...nothing less.

But I thought just like on offense it isn't the players it is calls the coordinator is making? Am I wrong or is it different on defense? Doesn't he prepare them for the opponents?Doesn't LeBeau makes the calls on the defensive backfield and what scheme they are playing on any given play? Isn't LeBeau responsible for making adjustmemts both during games and between games to eliminate negative results?

Sorry but LeBeau cannot get a pass on any of this and deserves to be ripped just like Arians. Arians didn't get a pass when Kemo was out. Arians didn't get a pass when ben was out. If LeBeau designed his defense and it falls apart when one player (Troy) is out of the line up that would seem to me to be pretty bad planning and judgement.

Don't mistake me for a LeBeau hater because I have nothing but respect for anyone who can coach at that level because they are smarter than I will ever be. I just overplay this to make a point that we have a double standard in perceptions on this board about our coordinators. This is probably because we have grown up worshipping defense as Steelers fans so anyone assocuiated with it is given a higher status in our perceptions. But, the goal should be winning...period. Even if you are a "legend" if you aren't getting the job done you need to be critically assessed.

I state this to make a point that because a "legend" has made his mark using a specific defense maybe we are holding on to it a bit too long to the deference of the "legend" when we don't have the right personnel to execute it no matter what the stats and rankings say.

What we have to consider is the performance of the defense this season an anomoly or an indicator of a trend given the personnel we have. Given what happened for 6 games I think it is more than an anomoly. There are systemic issues that need to be fixed.

Very well said O, and i agree to certain extent. But in truth i am a firm believer that execution (or lack thereof) is the most vital portion of a successful formula. This includes even potentially inept as BA's.

What i mean is,...just imagine if Roethlisberger was an accurate, cerebral, hard working Qb whom could run an offense exactly as it was drawn up ? And say we had a back and or backs whom were truthfully consistent, physical, between the tackles type of runners ?

Sure,.... Arians' system even then wouldn't have anyone comparing his offensive acumen to Bill Walsh,...but i believe that we would consistently score a great many more points than we are currently capable of,......

[feltdizz]

Re: LeBeau is the problem

Having seen them live, you can definitely see defensive plays not getting in on time.

maybe so.. but I think with Troy our there he would call a play his damn self...

I really think LeBeau still has it but I think he put too much on Troy and has ignored the obvious... without Troy our secondary is swiss cheese and it should be capable of making one stop in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line....