Shut Down Corner

[jj28west]

I am feeling a better after reading some good points on why loosing Smith will not be catestrophic.

I wanted to throw this idea that I have been mulling around with the past couple of weeks out there to see if others agree.

If you were calling the shots and had complete control over personnel as the defensive coach would you go after a shut down corner? I realize you would have to be talking a risk with either giving up high draft picks or loosing some higher quality (also higher salary guys) and no, I have not spent a lot of thought on that part but a shut down corner would even revolutionize the current flavor of the 3-4 that we play.

Do you remember the days of Deon ,Woodson, Ty Law where these guys could literally take your #1 receiver away with no safety "Tampa Two", etc coverage. Think of the possibilities if the #1 was negated. I know that finding a high caliber corner is as tough as finding a franchise quarterback. I think that there are not even 5 today that you can actually leave on an island. In my opinion, Ike (take away the hands) could be this guy.

He was well on his way until he got the big contract and was getting benched by Cower.
Having said that he works well with the current system as does Gay.

I just remember the games where QB's would not even look at their number 1 or whoever Deon or Rod was covering. It even got so bad at times that they would try to bait the QB's to throw.

Thoughts?

[SidSmythe]

Re: Shut Down Corner

IKE is as good as ur going to get in the Steelers 3-4 defense.

[pfelix73]

Re: Shut Down Corner

I know many think that Ike is a super CB and all, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I guess I won't be until he makes the pro bowl. He can be great at times, and then be inconsistent.

There is no way he is as good as our old buddy Hot Rod Woodson. But then again, who is? Just think how great it would be to have a Rod Woodson type along side Troy. That's why I wanted Revis way back 2 drafts ago. Revis with Troy. What a combo that would be. And Ike on the other side. Ok- I'm done dreaming.

[SidSmythe]

Re: Shut Down Corner

I know many think that Ike is a super CB and all, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I guess I won't be until he makes the pro bowl. He can be great at times, and then be inconsistent.

There is no way he is as good as our old buddy Hot Rod Woodson. But then again, who is? Just think how great it would be to have a Rod Woodson type along side Troy. That's why I wanted Revis way back 2 drafts ago. Revis with Troy. What a combo that would be. And Ike on the other side. Ok- I'm done dreaming.

IKE will never make the Pro-Bowl b/c he can't catch, therefor will never have the INT's to draw attention. For the defense we have and the contract he has, he's living up to it.

Revis is in a league of his own w/ the best of the best
IKE might not be the franchise guy, but he's a top 15 CB and plays our system well.

[williar]

Re: Shut Down Corner

A stutdown corner is as important to a defense as any position. The luxuries offenses now have, and with quarterbacks slinging the ball all over the field, you better have a some quality db's who are up for the challenge. I still shutter when I think how close we might have been to drafting Darelle Revis. That kid is awsome, and would have been just what the doctor ordered. I see what he has done for that jet defense. He is their best player, and is able to neutralize other teams biggest offensive weapon. With Troy finally back I hope we start seeing a resurgence in our defensive backfield. I am having bad flashbacks watching our guys get picked apart. I thought we turned the corner last year, but I think the loss of B-mac just weakened our depth to the point which we couldn't really afford. But to your point about the shutdown corner, I agree they are essential.

[pfelix73]

Re: Shut Down Corner

Yep. I think losing B Mac to the Cards was a huge loss too.



I'm not convinced any of these guys we drafted this year are worth a hoot, but we'll give them some time. None of them obviously, will be pro-bowl type CBs. I'd bet my 1982 VW on that.

[Jom112]

Re: Shut Down Corner

The days of true shutdown corners are over because of all the rules against "touching" WR's. When going against top receivers you're always going to need at least double coverage.

You try to go man on man for any extended period of time against the likes of a player like Calvin Johnson and you're going to get beat repeatedly.

Even Darrell Revis got embarrassed by Ted Ginn Jr., when he doesn't get safety help over the top.

Elite pass rushers are the best way to go to shut down top QB's and #1 receivers, IMHO...

[frankthetank1]

Re: Shut Down Corner

Yep. I think losing B Mac to the Cards was a huge loss too.



I'm not convinced any of these guys we drafted this year are worth a hoot, but we'll give them some time. None of them obviously, will be pro-bowl type CBs. I'd bet my 1982 VW on that.

you never know what will happen. who would of thought before the draft that mike wallace would turn out to be as good as he has in 5 games? im pretty sure ike didnt even play a full 4 years of football in college and he went to LA tech. my point is no one thought ike would be half as good as he is. bmac ehh he is pretty average. i definetly think out of gay, burnett and lewis one of them if not more will be as good or better than bmac

[anger 82&95]

Re: Shut Down Corner

Remember when the faders had Hayes and Haynes?

[stlrz d]

Re: Shut Down Corner

I know many think that Ike is a super CB and all, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I guess I won't be until he makes the pro bowl. He can be great at times, and then be inconsistent.

There is no way he is as good as our old buddy Hot Rod Woodson. But then again, who is? Just think how great it would be to have a Rod Woodson type along side Troy. That's why I wanted Revis way back 2 drafts ago. Revis with Troy. What a combo that would be. And Ike on the other side. Ok- I'm done dreaming.

So until the coaches, players and fans vote for him you won't be convinced?

C'mon man!

Anyway, with the cushion LeBeau has behind his front 7 even Nmandi would be playing off the ball...and as was mentioned, the rules make it tougher to blanket a guy as well.

[jj28west]

Re: Shut Down Corner

The days of true shutdown corners are over because of all the rules against "touching" WR's. When going against top receivers you're always going to need at least double coverage.

You try to go man on man for any extended period of time against the likes of a player like Calvin Johnson and you're going to get beat repeatedly.

Even Darrell Revis got embarrassed by Ted Ginn Jr., when he doesn't get safety help over the top.

Elite pass rushers are the best way to go to shut down top QB's and #1 receivers, IMHO...

I know there have been at least two rules put in place in the last 30 years that favored the receiver. The last one I beleive is the 5 yard rule. It makes you wonder if the rules were kept the same would the Desean Jacksons or Wes Welkers be as effective or would be getting mauled all the way down field. Hines would probably still be as effective.

Guys like Calvin and Fitz would definately be the exception.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Shut Down Corner

I know many think that Ike is a super CB and all, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I guess I won't be until he makes the pro bowl. He can be great at times, and then be inconsistent.

There is no way he is as good as our old buddy Hot Rod Woodson. But then again, who is? Just think how great it would be to have a Rod Woodson type along side Troy. That's why I wanted Revis way back 2 drafts ago. Revis with Troy. What a combo that would be. And Ike on the other side. Ok- I'm done dreaming.

So until the coaches, players and fans vote for him you won't be convinced?

C'mon man!

Anyway, with the cushion LeBeau has behind his front 7 even Nmandi would be playing off the ball...and as was mentioned, the rules make it tougher to blanket a guy as well.

Exactly...you are reserving your opinion on a guy based upon the results of a popularity contest in which voting starts before the season is even half over, and the results are tabulated while there are still several games yet to be played? Yeah...I put a huge amount of stock in the guys who get named to the Pro Bowl (remember when the Cowboy safety Roy Williams got named to the Pro Bowl year after year even though everyone who watched him play for more than five minutes realized that he was a huge liability...and was eventually jettisoned to join the Bengals?)

[papillon]

Re: Shut Down Corner

The days of true shutdown corners are over because of all the rules against "touching" WR's. When going against top receivers you're always going to need at least double coverage.

You try to go man on man for any extended period of time against the likes of a player like Calvin Johnson and you're going to get beat repeatedly.

Even Darrell Revis got embarrassed by Ted Ginn Jr., when he doesn't get safety help over the top.

Elite pass rushers are the best way to go to shut down top QB's and #1 receivers, IMHO...

I can't argue with this logic and I'd bet that this was true for some of the corners we consider shutdown, i.e. Woodson, Blount, Sanders, etc.

Pappy

[Snatch98]

Re: Shut Down Corner

I know many think that Ike is a super CB and all, but I'm still not 100% convinced. I guess I won't be until he makes the pro bowl. He can be great at times, and then be inconsistent.

There is no way he is as good as our old buddy Hot Rod Woodson. But then again, who is? Just think how great it would be to have a Rod Woodson type along side Troy. That's why I wanted Revis way back 2 drafts ago. Revis with Troy. What a combo that would be. And Ike on the other side. Ok- I'm done dreaming.

IKE will never make the Pro-Bowl b/c he can't catch, therefor will never have the INT's to draw attention. For the defense we have and the contract he has, he's living up to it.

Revis is in a league of his own w/ the best of the best
IKE might not be the franchise guy, but he's a top 15 CB and plays our system well.

Ike is up there and Revis is a beast. A BEAST WE ALMOST DRAFTED, but i'm happy we have Timmons. If Ike could catch he'd be scary and even still he does some pretty wild sh.it. Prime example last week when Culpepper tossed the desperation bomb and Taylor was SOARING like a damn bird up and over everyone else to knock it down. He's the real deal and easily in the top 10.

[Oracle]

Re: Shut Down Corner

The days of true shutdown corners are over because of all the rules against "touching" WR's. When going against top receivers you're always going to need at least double coverage.

You try to go man on man for any extended period of time against the likes of a player like Calvin Johnson and you're going to get beat repeatedly.

Even Darrell Revis got embarrassed by Ted Ginn Jr., when he doesn't get safety help over the top.

Elite pass rushers are the best way to go to shut down top QB's and #1 receivers, IMHO...

--------------------------------

Thank you. It's all about the pass rush. Give the opposing QB 2.5 seconds or less and your average CB's look like stars.