Then vs. Now

**stlrz d** · 07-12-2009, 06:28 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Originally posted by Lonbull

This thread goes out to my friend A.A. who is suffering from offseason maddness.

I've decided to introduce an idea of

Then Versus Now.

The idea is that I will take two Steelers (one Steeler from the past, and one from the present) and ask for you to choose which one you prefer. Since the off-season is slow and we could all use a good debate please explain in detail why you prefer one player over the other.

Since a few of these Steelers are Hall of Famers you must consider the "potential" of the current Steelers and ask yourself - does a certain players potential give them an edge over a player who is already finished.

I'm also very interested in what your deciding factor was in choosing one player over the other.

Super Bowl rings may come into play as well - however you also must consider how some of these players would have performed during the hey-day of the 70's.

I look forward to your answers - here are the players.

1st - Terry Bradshaw vs. Ben Roethlisberger

2nd - Rod Woodson vs. Troy Polamalu

3rd - Greg Lloyd vs. James Harrison

4th - Lynn Swann vs. Hines Ward

5th - Barry Foster vs. Willie Parker

6th - Jack Ham vs Lamarr Woodley

L.B.

**flippy** · 07-13-2009, 01:40 AM

Re: Then vs. Now

1. Big Ben - My gut says he'll be the best ever when he retires. I'm still in awe of how good he was in year 1. We aren't even close to the prime of his career and he's carried us to 2 rings. And Ben's doing it without a loaded offense.

2. Troy P - He will be the #2 Steeler of all time after Ben when all is said and done. If my son played football, I'd want him to be Troy P. Barely speaking above a whisper, but everyone knows he carries the biggest stick on the field. He's the anti NFL player. He's a freak athlete. Woodson isn't as good a Troy in his dreams. Woodson was great, but Troy is out of this world talented.

3. James Harrison - His INT return in SuperBowl XLIII seals it for me. Greatest play in the history of Steelers football. This one isn't even close like the first 2. From UDFA that was cut time and time again to DMVP. This guy is the best Steelers feel good story of all time. James is probably the only 5-10 guy in the history of the NFL to see double and triple teams. Lloyd isn't in his league.

4. Hines Ward - Swanny's the better WR by a mile. But Ward's my favorite player. Would have loved to see Ward attack DBs in Swann's era.

5. FWP - Barry was the greatest Steelers RB ever for 1 season. Willie keeps bringing it year in and year out. Longest TD run in SuperBowl history. What did Foster ever do?

6. Jack Ham - I love Woodley as much as anybody, but no way is it even fair to compare him to the best LB in Steelers history. Although 2 sacks per playoff game is pretty darn impressive.

**Lonbull** · 07-13-2009, 02:12 AM

Re: Then vs. Now

Flippy - thanks for your thoughtful answers, I tried to find players that would make the choices difficult - however you didn't seem to have any problems at all - I have to say that I'm a little surprised that you took mostly modern players, because I know how much you like the older players.

Stlrz D - C'mon man I know you've got more in you than just red highlights - I've got you saying Greg Lloyd and Barry Foster and Flippy saying James Harrison and F.W.P. - help me out dude what are you thinking?

L.B.

**stlrz d** · 07-13-2009, 06:38 AM

Re: Then vs. Now

Lloyd - Because everything about him just screamed intimidation...even his facemask.

Foster - Can't really explain this one. I love FWP for everything he does and everything he aspires to do...I'm one of his staunchest defenders when it comes to the "FWP sucks" crowd. But there was something about Barry that has always stuck with me. Maybe it's got to do with that one incredible season and what I thought he was going to be? Not sure. Anyway, I believe that Mendenhall (given his abilities and physical make up) can be what Barry Foster wasn't able to be. Both of them are just little bowling balls of muscle.

**Ghost** · 07-13-2009, 01:01 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

1. Bradshaw: 4>2 (with 2 MVP�s). HOF. Just too early to give Ben the nod.
2. Woodson: Simply one of the greatest athletes to ever play the game. Corner, Safety and return man (pro bowl at all 3 positions). Troy�s fast but RW had literally Olympic level speed. The records he holds are insane.
3. Lloyd: This was the hardest choice for me to make. I could see this changing if Harrison continues to be the monster he was this past season. His INT return could be argued to be the greatest defensive play in SB history.
4. Ward: He�ll never be the acrobatic, graceful player Swannn was but he�ll go down as the greatest all time Steelers WR. And the crushing blocks make up for the lack of ballet lessons.
5. Parker: Over time FWP has proven to be a better back. Give a nod for the SB record run.
6. Ham: This one�s not even close for me.

**ramblinjim** · 07-13-2009, 01:20 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

These are all really tough. Fun thing to play with though and my ideas may well change depending on my mood.

1.) Bradshaw. This one is tough for me because I wouldn't take any player currently in the league over Big Ben, not even Brady. But Terry went through hell his first years in the league, he suffered season ending injuries, he was benched, his stats were never great yet her persevered and brought home four rings. Ben is the man and in two years or two days my mind may change but for now, I'll take Terry just slightly.

2.) Rod. Another brutal choice. As an Illinois fan, I've watched Woodson play since he was in college at Purdue and have always been impressed with his play. He is rightfully a first ballot hall of famer and even played safety at a very high level after leaving Pittsburgh. I only wish we could have gotten him a ring. Troy is awesome and may well be in the "best to play the position" discussion if he can stay healthy but for right now, I'll take Rod Woodson.

3.) I loved Greg Lloyd and his 'tude but I'm going to take James Harrison here. James has fought through adversity, worked hard, kept at it and is now the reigning defensive MVP and the most feared man on the field. Lloyd was feared because he was big, mean and talked some serious smack a la "Who is Joe Namath? This is a guy who, if he played in the league today, I'd probably just go hit him late and see what he did, just for the hell of it. Joe Namath can go to hell; he can kiss my @ss." Ahhhhhh but Silverback..... Silverback is feared because he is the baddest man on the field at any given time. The best left tackles in the league have to hold him, running backs are scared of him and he doesn't talk a lot of crap. I hope he wasn't a one year wonder flash in the pan, I hope he continues to scare the hell out of people. I have a little man love for James Harrison

4.) Hines. I just love the way he plays. Swann has four rings and is in the Hall of Fame but I think if Hines played for the 70's Steelers he would have had the rings and he would have knocked Jack Tatum out of the league. Or he would have played defensive back and Noll would have just let him kill people. Hines Ward is one of my top 5 favorite Steelers ever, so I'm biased.

5.) Willie. Barry was the best in the league for one season, afterwards not so much. Willie is what he is but he's played well and fought hard for us now for a few years and I'm going to take him here. If Barry would have stayed healthy for a number of years, we may never have gotten the Bus too.

6.) Ham. Jack Ham's body of work put him in the hall of fame as one of the best line backers to ever play the game. As much as I hope Woodley becomes all Ham was and more I just can't bring myself to put him in his league yet. Woodley = very good to great player, Jack Ham = one of the best to lace them up.

**ramblinjim** · 07-13-2009, 01:22 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Originally posted by flippy

1. Big Ben - My gut says he'll be the best ever when he retires. I'm still in awe of how good he was in year 1. We aren't even close to the prime of his career and he's carried us to 2 rings. And Ben's doing it without a loaded offense.

2. Troy P - He will be the #2 Steeler of all time after Ben when all is said and done. If my son played football, I'd want him to be Troy P. Barely speaking above a whisper, but everyone knows he carries the biggest stick on the field. He's the anti NFL player. He's a freak athlete. Woodson isn't as good a Troy in his dreams. Woodson was great, but Troy is out of this world talented.

3. James Harrison - His INT return in SuperBowl XLIII seals it for me. Greatest play in the history of Steelers football. This one isn't even close like the first 2. From UDFA that was cut time and time again to DMVP. This guy is the best Steelers feel good story of all time. James is probably the only 5-10 guy in the history of the NFL to see double and triple teams. Lloyd isn't in his league.

4. Hines Ward - Swanny's the better WR by a mile. But Ward's my favorite player. Would have loved to see Ward attack DBs in Swann's era.

5. FWP - Barry was the greatest Steelers RB ever for 1 season. Willie keeps bringing it year in and year out. Longest TD run in SuperBowl history. What did Foster ever do?

6. Jack Ham - I love Woodley as much as anybody, but no way is it even fair to compare him to the best LB in Steelers history. Although 2 sacks per playoff game is pretty darn impressive.

Good stuff Flippy.

**fezziwig** · 07-13-2009, 01:41 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Ben vs Terry. ---- Too early for me to say.

Rod vs. Troy. ---- Equal. I'd take Blount over Woodson.

Harrison vs. Lloyd ---- Kind of early but, I'll take Harrison

Swann vs. Ward---- Tough call but, I'll take Swann

Willie vs. Barry ---- Had Barry kept his head and attitiude together and remained a Steeler, he would have crushed.
I'll take Foster just for what his style
and toughness did for the game.

Ham vs. Woodley---- Woodley is good but Ham set the benchmark.

**feltdizz** · 07-13-2009, 02:18 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Ben Roethlisberger - this is easy.. Terry had the big games when they mattered but Ben is unreal in his first 5 seasons and even if Ben only gets one more ring it's in a free agent and parody driven league... Terry had much better talent at WR as well..

2nd - Rod Woodson vs. Troy Polamalu - this is a push in my opinion.. Troy mixes it up but Rod Woodson was a beast and after leaving the Steelers he still prospered.. which is rare for a Steeler to do once they leave us. I'm leaning towards Rod Woodson since Troy isn't the best one on one in coverage...

James Harrison- another tough one since Harrison started so late in his career. That being said.... what Harrison has done in 3 seasons is damn impressive and his SB int return pretty much seals the deal. Best LB play ever by a Steeler followed by Jack Lambert slamming the guy after the missed FG. No points were scored but he impacted the game.

Lynn Swann - damn.... these get tougher and tougher... I have to go with Lynn Swann on this one but only by a hair... it would be easy to say Ward brings the intangibles like blocking and leadership.. but Swann did pull the Terrible Towel from his pants and with a few twirls the rest was history.. add his highlight films in the SB's and it's clear why he gets the nod.. Hines is fearless but hell... what Hines does underneath Lynn did over the top and who didn't go in their back yard and tip the ball to themselves while falling over and singing the NFL film scores? Also need to add that Lynn probably had the best catch I have ever seen in a SB with that sideline grab against the Vikes.. it was only 10 to 20 yards but it's a thing of beauty...

Willie Parker - if it was based on one season I would say Foster... but hell, Franco would have been better competition FWP wins this hands down.. much better career and his impact was instant.. came out of nowhere... and was something the Steelers had never had before...

Jack Ham - too easy.. dude was the unsung hero on that defense..

**RuthlessBurgher** · 07-13-2009, 02:19 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

1. Ben. Very similar skills and styles. Both had big arms and a knack for escapability, and showed themselves to be winners above all else. While Terry had many well-documented struggles early in his career in Pittsburgh, Ben's early career was exactly the opposite. That gives him the edge. If Ben continues on his current trajectory path, he should be able to surpass Bradshaw.

2. Rod. Tough, tough, tough. Troy can do things from the safety position that most players can only dream of...the best safety the NFL has seen since Ronnie Lott (yeah, you heard me, you Reed-loving Ravens fans). Woodson was also an all-time great (I think only Mel Blount and Night Train Lane can be mentioned in Rod's class among corners in history...and no, I did not forget about Deion Sanders, who couldn't tackle a one-legged girl). Woodson's special teams play in the return game may be the tiebreaker for me.

3. Lloyd. I got my first authentic Steeler jersey in the 8th grade, and it was #95. I didn't think we'd see anyone like him ever again...but then he was reincarnated as James Harrison. You can't deny Harrison's Super Bowl return, his DPOY season, his insane game against Baltimore in the 75th Anniversary game, his slamming of Chad Johnson and that Cleveland fan, his hurdling of LaDainian, etc., but emotions of your youth die hard, which is why I picked the guy who was not hired for his disposition. I wouldn't want to meet either of these guys in a dark alley, though.

4. Hines. Swann did come incredible things to bring down big passes in big games, but Hines was more than just a receiver. He's a football player in every sense of the word. A true Steeler. I didn't think I would ever wear an offensive player's jersey until Ward came along. He's a linebacker in a wideout's body.

5. Willie. Foster could have been great, but he did not live up to his promise after his one great season. Parker could have been forgotten after a lackluster college career, but he worked his way to where he is today. I will take the overachiever over the underachiever every day of the week. While the underachiever may have had more raw potential to be great, the overachiever has more heart to get him to where no one else thought he might be capable of going.

6. Ham. I think Jack Ham is the greatest Steeler linebacker of all time (Lambert included). Sure, he does not have the stats of other Steeler OLB's like Merriweather, Greene, Gildon, and Porter. You won't see as many "splash plays" out of a 4-3 OLB like Ham as you would out of 3-4 OLB like Woodley, but there is nothing Ham couldn't do. There was no weakness to his game. He was the complete package linebacker, which often lead to him being overlooked by some of his flashier peers (kind of like the Derrick Brooks of his day).

**Discipline of Steel** · 07-13-2009, 06:54 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Ben vs Terry. ---- Terry made some throws but was more of a 'game manager' supported by a very strong team. Ben can hoist them up on his shoulders when it counts.

Rod vs. Troy. ---- Equal. I'd take Blount over Woodson.

Harrison vs. Lloyd ---- Harrison makes it a point to let his play do the talking.

Swann vs. Ward---- I idolized Swanny growing up. Hines is the better all around player and for a longer time.

Willie vs. Barry ---- Foster only had one season of greatness. Willie has had several seasons of very goodness. I take Willie.

Ham vs. Woodley---- I like Lambert, he elevated the intensity of the entire defense.

**fezziwig** · 07-13-2009, 08:28 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

DOS, you are one of the few or actually the only one I remember that agreed with me about Blount over Woodson.

Blount was a monster and I've never witnessed anyone better than him. Woodson runs a close second but Blount, he was pure coverage, defender, take the ball away and a crushing tackler. I'm curious to know how well he would have done as a return guy.

Again, I love Woodson but there was just that spark or current of talent in Blount that gives him the edge.

**Iron Shiek** · 07-13-2009, 09:55 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

Originally posted by flippy

4. Hines Ward - Swanny's the better WR by a mile. But Ward's my favorite player. Would have loved to see Ward attack DBs in Swann's era.

No kidding! Doesn't it just seem like Ward was supposed to have played back then. And I can guarantee you wouldn't have these whiny as$ b!tch as$ fans and players complaining about him. It would just get chalked up as hard football. Pansies.

Anyway, here are mine without having read past flippy's post so forgive me if I am repetitive:

1. Ben - Unfortunately I'm too young to have seen Bradshaw in his hayday so I have only highlights to go on. And while its not fair that I've seen all of Ben's games, I would still say Ben just based on how quickly he picked up the team and understood his various roles over the years (game manager to gun slinger to leader) each with its own successes. Ben's knack for being better in the 4th quarter than the 1st and his composure under severe pressure give him the nod.

2. Troy by his hair - This one is too close. Woodson was my favorite player forever but Troy's attacking style pushes him over the top. They are athletic in their own ways. But I just go back to some of the interceptions Troy's made recently and think that Woodson did all that. But Woodson didn't line up on the line and attack linebackers.

3. James Harrison - another one that could go either way. But I think i did see someone mention the INT return in the SB and I'd have to say that kind of athleticism gives him the nod for me because both of them are equally intimidating although Lloyd may have a slight edge on hitting

4. Ward - My favorite guy on the team. He's just a hard nosed football player who is highly dependable. SB MVP along with all his extra curricular stuff gives him the edge for me.

5. Foster - His style was more to my liking and he had a huge year. I guess you could say Parker was basically having an equally huge year but Foster moved the chains almost always whereas you don't know what you are getting always with Parker.

6. N/A - I can't compare these guys. I suppose Woodely has the potential to be just as effective as Ham, but I'm not ready to proclaim a winner. And again I've only got highlights to go on for Ham, so its hard to say for me.

**Chachi** · 07-13-2009, 10:05 PM

Re: Then vs. Now

I can never do these type of comparisons because it is Know vs. Unknown.

We know what Bradshaw did with his career. Ben in going into year 6. Ben is still Unknown. he could fulfill his dream and win 3 more SBs for a total of 5. He could tank ala golfer David Duval. He could get injured and be done in 2 years.

I could be closer to doing this if is was real time comparisons.

Ben has 5 years under his belt. Who would you take, Ben with 5 years under and what he has done or Bradshaw 5 years in and what he did in that time.

Troy has 7 (?) years under his belt. Or would you take Rod in year 7?

Etc.

Still would have a hard time, but I think this would be a more true comparison and fairer contest.

Then vs. Now

Then vs. Now

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