Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

[BURGH86STEEL]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

How much do the other qualities that he brings override the numbers in the Steeler's minds?.

I think if you ask the same question of Hines Ward, you'll have your answer. Miller certainly deserves to be extended and I hope he does. He's a great team guy, has a great relationship with Roethlisberger and is money on third downs when given the chance.

I hope he gets extended. Maybe he wants to be the highest paid TE in the league? I am sure if they could, they would make every player on the team the highest paid at their positions. Unfortunately, the can't. Maybe they can't afford to make him the highest paid TE due to the salary cap money they have this year?

I hope they work something out. If they can't, good luck to Heath.

[Chadman]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

Chadman would be surprised if Heath Miller was let go before say, Willie Parker, Keiwan Ratliffe, Travis Kirschke etc.

[papillon]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

Chadman would be surprised if Heath Miller was let go before say, Willie Parker, Keiwan Ratliffe, Travis Kirschke etc.

The Steelers certainly don't want to let him go, but lets take a look at some things we know or believe we know.

1) Is Heath Miller a top 6-7 TE in the league? (I say yes. maybe top 5 and certainly in the top 2 or 3 as an overall TE)
2) Will Heath Miller receive many offers if he hits free agency? (I say yes)
3) Will they be large offers? (I say yes)
4) Does Heath have top 6-7 TE production in the Steeler offense? (I say no)
5) Is he valuable to the Steelers? (Yes)
6) Will the Steelers pay him top 6-7 money for production not in that category? (I say no)

How do the Steelers keep him? Make him a fair, but less than top 6-7 offer and hope he gives you a discount to want to be a Steeler.

Pappy

[Iron Shiek]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

Chadman would be surprised if Heath Miller was let go before say, Willie Parker, Keiwan Ratliffe, Travis Kirschke etc.

The Steelers certainly don't want to let him go, but lets take a look at some things we know or believe we know.

1) Is Heath Miller a top 6-7 TE in the league? (I say yes. maybe top 5 and certainly in the top 2 or 3 as an overall TE)
2) Will Heath Miller receive many offers if he hits free agency? (I say yes)
3) Will they be large offers? (I say yes)
4) Does Heath have top 6-7 TE production in the Steeler offense? (I say no)
5) Is he valuable to the Steelers? (Yes)
6) Will the Steelers pay him top 6-7 money for production not in that category? (I say no)

How do the Steelers keep him? Make him a fair, but less than top 6-7 offer and hope he gives you a discount to want to be a Steeler.

Pappy

Or tag his a$$...which I would be against...but they seem to like using tags...the average of top 5 te's or whatever the designation is wouldn't be outrageous. But I would think a long term deal will be reached.

[MeetJoeGreene]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

Tagging is fine. I am not opposed to tagging, per se.

It only buys us, however, 1 year - it is not a long term solution and we need to have the cap room to do it.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

[pfelix73]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

As good as he is, Heath is terribly under-utilized in our system.

I'm a stupid fan who blames the offensive coordinator for this.

[Slapstick]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

Does Heath Miller produce like a top 5 TE in this offense? Right now, no, he does not...

But, that isn't Heath Miller's fault...

If Heath Miller is resigned (or tagged with the goal of a long-term deal) then the offense must be changed to make him more of a focal point...it's as simple as that...

When Nate Washington was a Steeler, I did like having him on the team...but, I never understood why he was seemingly given a greater chance to succeed than Miller...

Will Heath Miller never produce like a top 5 TE in the Steelers offense? Possibly...but, that's up to Arians and Tomlin...

It is true that there are only so many passes to go around...the question is, would it be necessarily a bad thing to "take passes away" from another receiver and throw more passes to Miller?

It depends...will you put Miller in a position to succeed?

[papillon]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

The Steelers are perilously close top the cap limit right now (about 2 million after Starks' contract was renegotiated and extended); I don't see them having 4 million per to spend anytime soon, unless, there are other veteran cap casualties, Hampton, Kiesel, Clark, Reed, Townsend, Parker and any other usual suspect.

Personally, I would rather secure 2 players rather than just one, particularly when your choices are all proven veterans like Clark, Reed and Parker. I don't think I'd try to sign Heath at the cost of multiple other players.

The difficult part is that Heath is the embodiment of Steeler football.

Pappy

[Oviedo]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

The Steelers are perilously close top the cap limit right now (about 2 million after Starks' contract was renegotiated and extended); I don't see them having 4 million per to spend anytime soon, unless, there are other veteran cap casualties, Hampton, Kiesel, Clark, Reed, Townsend, Parker and any other usual suspect.

Personally, I would rather secure 2 players rather than just one, particularly when your choices are all proven veterans like Clark, Reed and Parker. I don't think I'd try to sign Heath at the cost of multiple other players.

The difficult part is that Heath is the embodiment of Steeler football.

Pappy

I think with heath the numbers would not hit this year because he is under contract this year and the extension would not take effect until after next year. The question would be how much a pro rated bonus would hit this year's cap number or would that also take effect next year when we have to assume that some number of contracts like Parker, Hampton, Clark, etc are either off the books or have been renegotiated to more favorable numbers.

As long as you have replacements for other players I don't see it as signing one and losing three. Keep in mind that eventually we have to shed higher priced veterans and get cheaper younger players to step in and perform. Can't live on the cap edge forever before you eventually have to reset the equation.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

The Steelers are perilously close top the cap limit right now (about 2 million after Starks' contract was renegotiated and extended); I don't see them having 4 million per to spend anytime soon, unless, there are other veteran cap casualties, Hampton, Kiesel, Clark, Reed, Townsend, Parker and any other usual suspect.

Personally, I would rather secure 2 players rather than just one, particularly when your choices are all proven veterans like Clark, Reed and Parker. I don't think I'd try to sign Heath at the cost of multiple other players.

The difficult part is that Heath is the embodiment of Steeler football.

Pappy

Players with one year left on their contracts are Miller, Parker, Colon, Hampton, Keisel, Townsend, Clark, Reed. We are currently 2 million under the cap with all of their salaries on the books. Maybe enough to sign our last unsigned draft pick Ziggy Hood and then possibly extend either Clark or Reed now. With all of those salaries coming off the books after this season, there will more than just $2 million worth of space to work with.

I think there will be enough room to re-sign half of them and let the other half walk. I think we make the biggest effort to re-sign Miller, Clark, Reed, and either Keisel or Hampton. I think Colon, Parker, Townsend, and either Keisel or Hampton (whichever of the two is not re-signed...I don't think we can afford both...just like I thought we would only be able to re-sign Starks or Colon, and the Starks deal has already been done, so I suspect we will see another RT in 2010 unless there is no CBA and Colon can stick around for one more year under an RFA tender just like this season).

You mentioned that you would rather keep two other of our potential free agents than one in Miller. For instance, would you rather extend, say Parker and Townsend and let Heath walk? Heath is undoubtedly your #1 TE and is head-and-shoulders above Spaeth, but you can't say the same about Parker and Townsend anymore.

Parker has some tread on his tires (over 1000 career carries already and he will be heading into his 7th NFL season in 2010 (he will turn 30 during that season as well, which tends to be a perilous age for NFL RB's). Townsend will be heading into his 13th season in the league in 2010 (he will turn 35 at the beginning of that season, which is ancient for a DB). I would much rather see a 2010 RB depth chart without Parker (Rashard Mendenhall, Mewelde Moore, Frank Summers) and a 2010 CB depth chart without Townsend (Ike Taylor, William Gay, Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett) than a 2010 TE depth chart without Miller (Matt Spaeth, Sean McHugh, and D.J. Johnson). You keep your young, potentially elite starters over veteran depth players.

[Oviedo]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

The Steelers are perilously close top the cap limit right now (about 2 million after Starks' contract was renegotiated and extended); I don't see them having 4 million per to spend anytime soon, unless, there are other veteran cap casualties, Hampton, Kiesel, Clark, Reed, Townsend, Parker and any other usual suspect.

Personally, I would rather secure 2 players rather than just one, particularly when your choices are all proven veterans like Clark, Reed and Parker. I don't think I'd try to sign Heath at the cost of multiple other players.

The difficult part is that Heath is the embodiment of Steeler football.

Pappy

Players with one year left on their contracts are Miller, Parker, Colon, Hampton, Keisel, Townsend, Clark, Reed. We are currently 2 million under the cap with all of their salaries on the books. Maybe enough to sign our last unsigned draft pick Ziggy Hood and then possibly extend either Clark or Reed now. With all of those salaries coming off the books after this season, there will more than just $2 million worth of space to work with.

I think there will be enough room to re-sign half of them and let the other half walk. I think we make the biggest effort to re-sign Miller, Clark, Reed, and either Keisel or Hampton. I think Colon, Parker, Townsend, and either Keisel or Hampton (whichever of the two is not re-signed...I don't think we can afford both...just like I thought we would only be able to re-sign Starks or Colon, and the Starks deal has already been done, so I suspect we will see another RT in 2010 unless there is no CBA and Colon can stick around for one more year under an RFA tender just like this season).

You mentioned that you would rather keep two other of our potential free agents than one in Miller. For instance, would you rather extend, say Parker and Townsend and let Heath walk? Heath is undoubtedly your #1 TE and is head-and-shoulders above Spaeth, but you can't say the same about Parker and Townsend anymore.

Parker has some tread on his tires (over 1000 career carries already and he will be heading into his 7th NFL season in 2010 (he will turn 30 during that season as well, which tends to be a perilous age for NFL RB's). Townsend will be heading into his 13th season in the league in 2010 (he will turn 35 at the beginning of that season, which is ancient for a DB). I would much rather see a 2010 RB depth chart without Parker (Rashard Mendenhall, Mewelde Moore, Frank Summers) and a 2010 CB depth chart without Townsend (Ike Taylor, William Gay, Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett) than a 2010 TE depth chart without Miller (Matt Spaeth, Sean McHugh, and D.J. Johnson). You keep your young, potentially elite starters over veteran depth players.

The only thing you say that I disagree with is

a 2010 TE depth chart without Miller (Matt Spaeth, Sean McHugh, and D.J. Johnson).

I think Miller is very valuable and his numbers are a function of the offense not utilizing our TEs like they should. However, if Miller leaves I do have to agree that it is hardly a huge impact because TEs are usually available throughout the draft if you are just using them as primarily blockers versus quasi-H backs. Also don't forget that we have Dezmond Sherrod (6'2" 250lbs) also on the roster who oooked impressive catching the ball last pre season.

I still believe that Miller stays but the Steelers won't break the bank on him so he has to want to stay and ignore that he could get more on the open market.

[papillon]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

This past season, the franchise tag amount for TE's (average of top 5 TE's in the league) was $4,462,000 and the transition tag amount for TE's (average of top 10 TE's in the league) was $4,065,000.

I think he would be worth a long term deal averaging in the $4 million range. If we can't get it worked out by the time free agency starts next off-season, you could give him the franchise tag (it may rise slightly next year, but not by much).

If there is no CBA, though, we could keep him for another year with just a RFA tender since he would need 6 accrued seasons to reach unrestricted free agency instead of just 4 in that case. This past season, a RFA tender of only $1.01 million would give you the right of first refusal and if another team signed him to an offer sheet, and you chose not to match, you would get compensation of the same round in which he was originally drafted (meaning that other team would owe us their first round pick).

The Steelers are perilously close top the cap limit right now (about 2 million after Starks' contract was renegotiated and extended); I don't see them having 4 million per to spend anytime soon, unless, there are other veteran cap casualties, Hampton, Kiesel, Clark, Reed, Townsend, Parker and any other usual suspect.

Personally, I would rather secure 2 players rather than just one, particularly when your choices are all proven veterans like Clark, Reed and Parker. I don't think I'd try to sign Heath at the cost of multiple other players.

The difficult part is that Heath is the embodiment of Steeler football.

Pappy

Players with one year left on their contracts are Miller, Parker, Colon, Hampton, Keisel, Townsend, Clark, Reed. We are currently 2 million under the cap with all of their salaries on the books. Maybe enough to sign our last unsigned draft pick Ziggy Hood and then possibly extend either Clark or Reed now. With all of those salaries coming off the books after this season, there will more than just $2 million worth of space to work with.

I think there will be enough room to re-sign half of them and let the other half walk. I think we make the biggest effort to re-sign Miller, Clark, Reed, and either Keisel or Hampton. I think Colon, Parker, Townsend, and either Keisel or Hampton (whichever of the two is not re-signed...I don't think we can afford both...just like I thought we would only be able to re-sign Starks or Colon, and the Starks deal has already been done, so I suspect we will see another RT in 2010 unless there is no CBA and Colon can stick around for one more year under an RFA tender just like this season).

You mentioned that you would rather keep two other of our potential free agents than one in Miller. For instance, would you rather extend, say Parker and Townsend and let Heath walk? Heath is undoubtedly your #1 TE and is head-and-shoulders above Spaeth, but you can't say the same about Parker and Townsend anymore.

Parker has some tread on his tires (over 1000 career carries already and he will be heading into his 7th NFL season in 2010 (he will turn 30 during that season as well, which tends to be a perilous age for NFL RB's). Townsend will be heading into his 13th season in the league in 2010 (he will turn 35 at the beginning of that season, which is ancient for a DB). I would much rather see a 2010 RB depth chart without Parker (Rashard Mendenhall, Mewelde Moore, Frank Summers) and a 2010 CB depth chart without Townsend (Ike Taylor, William Gay, Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett) than a 2010 TE depth chart without Miller (Matt Spaeth, Sean McHugh, and D.J. Johnson). You keep your young, potentially elite starters over veteran depth players.

I want the Steelers to find a way to keep Heath Miller; he's the most underrated player in the NFL, IMHO. Announcers don't even know he's on the team, other teams never mention him, but he makes a ton of plays. My contention is that it will be difficult to keep him and some other veterans that are pretty good, ie, Clark, Parker and Reed (not Townsend, he's 36, I think). If it came down to keeping two of those players or Miller, I think I'd opt for 2 players over one player, unfortunately.

Clark and Reed would be the preference, but, with the way RBs get hurt in this league, keeping Parker and Reed or Clark would be my preference over Miller.

Ideally, Miller, Clark and Reed are all Steelers for a long time, that will take some veteran salary elimination after this year.

The Steelers simply under utilize a tight end for them to spend large sums of money on the position.

Pappy

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

I want the Steelers to find a way to keep Heath Miller; he's the most underrated player in the NFL, IMHO. Announcers don't even know he's on the team, other teams never mention him, but he makes a ton of plays. My contention is that it will be difficult to keep him and some other veterans that are pretty good, ie, Clark, Parker and Reed (not Townsend, he's 36, I think). If it came down to keeping two of those players or Miller, I think I'd opt for 2 players over one player, unfortunately.

Clark and Reed would be the preference, but, with the way RBs get hurt in this league, keeping Parker and Reed or Clark would be my preference over Miller.

Ideally, Miller, Clark and Reed are all Steelers for a long time, that will take some veteran salary elimination after this year.

The Steelers simply under utilize a tight end for them to spend large sums of money on the position.

Pappy

I think re-signing Miller, Clark, and Reed is very doable (likely one of them during this off-season and the other two after the season). Those would be my top 3 realistic targets for extensions (at the expense of, say, Willie Parker).

[papillon]

Re: Hate seeing this type of article...Heath Miller

I want the Steelers to find a way to keep Heath Miller; he's the most underrated player in the NFL, IMHO. Announcers don't even know he's on the team, other teams never mention him, but he makes a ton of plays. My contention is that it will be difficult to keep him and some other veterans that are pretty good, ie, Clark, Parker and Reed (not Townsend, he's 36, I think). If it came down to keeping two of those players or Miller, I think I'd opt for 2 players over one player, unfortunately.

Clark and Reed would be the preference, but, with the way RBs get hurt in this league, keeping Parker and Reed or Clark would be my preference over Miller.

Ideally, Miller, Clark and Reed are all Steelers for a long time, that will take some veteran salary elimination after this year.

The Steelers simply under utilize a tight end for them to spend large sums of money on the position.

Pappy

I think re-signing Miller, Clark, and Reed is very doable (likely one of them during this off-season and the other two after the season). Those would be my top 3 realistic targets for extensions (at the expense of, say, Willie Parker).

All three for Parker? DONE! Where do I sign up for that deal? That would almost be the best case scenario short of signing everyone. :P

Pappy