Steelers' coach needs to get better

[MeetJoeGreene]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

There it is. Moving the goal posts again. For some folks, whatever Tomlin accomplished will not suffice but will be constantly diminished with the "yeah but so-and-so could have done it too..." or "we haven't seen enough of him yet..."

What will suffice until you stop the anti-Tomlin jihad? One more Super Bowl? Two more? 10 seasons without a losing one (even though almost every coach/team has a down year). I can imagine 5 years from now, we have one 1 or 2 more Super Bowls, and have a 7-9 season.... Your response would be??? Let me postulate: "AHA!! SEE I TOLD YOU ALL THAT TOMLIN SUCKS!! WHIZE WOULD HAVE HAD 5 SUPER BOWLS AND A 12-4 RECORD THIS YEAR."

[Oviedo]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Whis voluntarily took himself out of the equation when he withdrew his name from the running for the Steeler head coaching job by taking the Cardinals job while the Rooney were still in the process of interviewing candidates.

The question is would Russ Grimm have been able to lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl victory in his second season as head coach. People tend to forget that the Rooneys chose Tomlin over Grimm, not Tomlin over Whisenhunt. I, for one, say no...Russ Grimm would not have been able to lead this team to a Super Bowl victory, facing the schedule that we faced last year. The Steelers made the correct choice to replace Cowher.

This year we get to see if Grimm can be an offensive coordinator let alone a head coach. He may be the most interviewed coach in the NFL for head coach jobs and he gets rejected every time. Obviously the professionals running teams see something or more appropriately don't see something.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland )?

Actually, it was Baltimore, not Cleveland.

[ikestops85]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland )?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

bravo sir, bravo Well said

[Oviedo]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland )?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

bravo sir, bravo Well said

Totally great post.

[MaxAMillion]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

I hate to tell you this but without the Steelers scouting department Noll wasn't going to win a fecking thing either. Noll didn't hand pick his players outside of maybe begging for a couple guys in early rounds.
Organizations win for many reasons. The Steelers win cause they hire good intelligent people in every position they can. We don't collect super star players mostly cause we pick late in the draft. If a guy's britches get to big, he's gone. EVERY player and coach in the organization wins with the Steelers because they all share a piece of the burden. Yes, some more than others, but even those appearing to carry more, MAY be due to the system.
Lebeau is a great coach and has been able to put a good defense on the field because there is great understanding between him and the scouting department. Lebeau doesn't walk in on draft day and point at 5 guys that he demands. Certain guys fit and the scouts know what he needs. He is a good communicator as are most in the organization.
How many Super Bowls has Lebeau won outside of Pittsburgh?
Is Harrison a top 5 LB in the league or does Lebeau make great calls and put him in perfect position. Is Farrior doing soo much work that Harrison only has to do the cleanup? Who brought Farrior to Pittsburgh? Lebeau? Who cut Harrison (besides Cleveland )?
What happened to the team the day Aaron Smith got hurt? Team fell apart in the playoffs.
Tomlin does a great job. Are his opening day responsibilities the same now as they will be in 3-5 years? No, he's learning, while also manning up in his job.
When Arizona had the ball in Super Bowl 43 with less than 2 minutes and we only needed ONE stop to be called Champs again, was it Lebeau's fault or Tomlin's that Arizona scored from far out. Who bailed us out? Lebeau, Tomlin, Harrison or Ben? Or maybe the guy most people prefer to get rid of (including me at times), Ariens? Maybe he had the calls correct. Maybe just maybe it was the whole organization from the scouts finding these players, to the defensive coaches for holding Arizona for so long, to the offensive coaches and players for making the big time plays and calls when they had to.

As for Whiz, he had the best offensive WR and WR unit and QB possibly in the league. His defense was deep and talented as well. He was involved in getting none of it. He stepped into a great situation in Arizona and he got close. But his organization failed. Was it him or the organization as a whole. Or maybe sometimes things just don't go your way in sports.

Great post, funny how Whiz's name was not brought up when his team quit playing for several weeks (including the humiliating loss to NE). I think those performances say something about Whiz's coaching ability over the course of an entire season.

I can only imagine what the reaction would be if Tomlin's Steelers literally did not show up for a game.

[stlrz d]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

I don't know why some feel that by giving credit to Tomlin you take it away from Cowher. First of all, I don't care how much talent you have on a team you still need a good coach to pull it all together. Okay, Barry Switzer might be the exception to that rule. Tomlin had to come into the Burgh, take over a veteran team and earn their respect. That in itself is not an easy job in this day and age of the pampered multi-millionaire athletes. To a man I think the players will tell you Tomlin has done that. When he first took over the job he had something (I can't remember what it was actually called) like an accountablility board where he would post mistakes made by the players. In essence calling them out. What surprised the players was one of the first names on the board was his --- proving to them that he was no different than they were from an accountability standpoint. To me the guy has done a great job of coaching the players he has. I find it funny that some say they aren't "HIS" players. They most certainly are ... just ask the players. It's also funny that some think Wood, Timmons, Mendy, etc. are his players. I got news for you. Colbert made those selections with input from the coaching staff. There is no way that Tomlin has the same voice in the draft that Cowher did at the end of his coaching career with the Steelers. The bottom line is Tomlin came in here and kept the Steelers winning tradition alive ... and he himself says he needs to get better. What more could you want in a coach.

Now for Cowher -- I gotta disagree with Stlrz D. I think Cowher was the best motivational coach since Lombardi. I think many Steeler fans far overestimate the talent on many of those Cowher teams and it can be proven by the overall lack of success players had once they left the steelers. I believe Chad Brown would have been a Hall of Fame candidate if he had stayed with the steelers. He left and was good but not great. Willie William, was nothing when he came to the Steelers then played great for the Steelers, got the big contract and was never played at that level again. Cowher took those teams further than any coach in that era could have but his weakness was his conservative nature when going against teams that had a lot more talent than his team had.

All in all I think the Steelers have been damn good in picking their last 3 coaches.

Ike, I like Cowher and agree with you that he was a great motivator. But I'd argue those players didn't have success elsewhere because they were drafted to fit our system. Their skillset related to what we do defensively and when put in a different system, arguably with lessor players, they weren't able to succeed.

I loved Cowher as a coach but my opinion will always remain that his teams under achieved.

MJG - moving the goal posts (with regards to Tomlin) is a common theme with LVG...as is the AHHH HAAA if Tomlin fails at something.

[jj28west]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Wow,

There are some well thought out A1 quality posts in this topic thread. I look back at mine and it looks like a 12 year old wrote it.

As far as the game winning drive has anyone ever confirmed if it was Tomlin, BA or Ben who called those plays? Maybe its not Tomlins style or he is not comfortable yet but Cowher would over rule Ron Earhardt alot, especially in the 1st Super Bowl run.

If it was Ben then talk about a coach having that kind of respect and faith in his players.

[LasVegasGuy]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

Can't judge what he did with Arizona because he inherited the best players on his team from the previous coach. We'll see how good a coach he is once they are all gone. Let's see what he does with his draft picks which have thus far not proven to be the difference makers on that team.

You can't have it both ways.

Same thing applies to Whis too. But in his defense he did take over a team that didn't make the playoffs for the last 10 years let alone go to the Super Bowl. Tomlin took over a Super Bowl team 2 years removed. Whiz had the much tougher task in my opinion.

[Steelerphile]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Arizona has been viewed by prognosticators as a talented team with the potential to make the playoffs for at least 4-5 years. So Whiz did a good enough job to take a talented but historically underachieving team to a 9-7 record in the worst division in the NFL.

Tomlin was able to take the Steelers, which had a certain number oif questions marks before the season, into the teeth of what was ranked the toughest schedule in the NFL to a 12-4 record.

I think Tomlin had a tougher task. The NFL doesn't award the team any points before the games because they are two years removed from a SuperBowl. Some teams or players never make the SuperBowl or make it once and never again. I don't think one year has much to do with the other personally. Every season is its own entity.

Cowher coached 15 seasons and made two SuperBowls and won one. When they made the SuperBowl in 1995, it was 10 years before they made it again in 2005.

So LasVegasGuy will continue trying his utmost to smear Tomlin but it was a GREAT accomplishment for him to lead the Steelers to a SuperBowl victory in only his second season as a head coach. Only the truly ignorant will continue with this theme. The Zayets and others are long gone. Most people are recognizing Tomlin for the fine head coach he has been, and I expect he will evolve into a better coach as he continues with team.

[NorthCoast]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Truth be told there are parts of Tomlin's game that DO need improvement. There were so calls that had me scratching my head at times. But I will say that he definitely showed improvement from Yr 1 to Yr 2. If this pace of better gameday management continues, we will be in the hunt at the end of every season. Many praise Cowher for his consistency in getting us to the post season, but I think Tomlin has the skills to better Cowher's record by far.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

I'll say it.. Whiz couldn't have done it with us... because he left before we decided on a coach.

Didn't Switzer beat us due to the O'Dennell tosses? he then left football...
and Dungy always won just like Cowher.. but had trouble in the playoffs... he has a ring and just retired...
Gruden won his first year and faded and took a gig in the booth... funny enough he beat his old team which Callahan was coaching....

and Callahan tanked the Cornhuskers...


at least you are man enough to stick to your guns... but I swear.. you sound bitter about Tomlin winning a SB.

[feltdizz]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Truth be told there are parts of Tomlin's game that DO need improvement. There were so calls that had me scratching my head at times. But I will say that he definitely showed improvement from Yr 1 to Yr 2. If this pace of better gameday management continues, we will be in the hunt at the end of every season. Many praise Cowher for his consistency in getting us to the post season, but I think Tomlin has the skills to better Cowher's record by far.

I think most of the head scratching comes from Tomlin believing so much in his D he takes chances.. but I think it also gives our players an edge that Cowher was unable to get our players to...

Cowher seemed to have a ceiling and our players never rose above it until the Bettis going home tour..

if it wasn't for O'Donnell though I think that onside kick would have changed Cowhers legacy...

[PSU_dropout43]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

agreed.

If Cowher were still head coach, I have little doubt we'd have 7 titles if not 8.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Steelers' coach needs to get better

Anybody want to say that Whiz couldn't have done the same thing in Pittsburgh?
Heck, he inherited a team with a lot less talent, was able to make it to the Super Bowl in 2 years and was seconds away from beating the mighty Tomlin led Steelers. Nuff said!

Tomlin was given keys to the bus and told to drive it straight. It won't be until we put some miles on the bus with him as the operator to understand what we really have in a head coach.

Even Barry Switzer took the talented Jimmy Johnson Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Oh yea! Even Jon Gruden took the Dungy Bucs' to the Super Bowl and who can forget Callahan's Raiders?

But I ask where are they now?

agreed.

If Cowher were still head coach, I have little doubt we'd have 7 titles if not 8.

Well, 8 would have been impossible, since we went 8-8 with Cowher in '06 after winning the 5th title in '05. You really think we would have won titles with Cowher in '07 and '08 to make it 7? I don't think so...his mind was elsewhere in '06. He lost the fire. It doesn't magically re-appear the following season. Tomlin was a breath of fresh air.