Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

[Oviedo]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.

"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy

[quote:2egsr1uy]On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.

While I understand the opinion of folks who feel that Harrison should not make more than Polamalu's average yearly salary of $7.55 million, the fact is that the market fluctuates and you must adjust. Bart Freaking Scott was just given a deal averaging $8 million per year. We won't go crazy getting into stupid Haynesworth-type numbers (even Harrison's agent acknowledged that that wasn't realistic) but Scott's deal should be the starting point for negotiations now (that wouldn't be the case if we finalized a deal before the start of the free agency period).[/quote:2egsr1uy]

Other teams overpaying players is why they go through frequent boom/bust seasons. The Jets are just such a team. When was their last period of prolonged success. The Steelrrs have a business model that places them in the Top 3 teams in this decade in terms of toatls wins and success. They should not deviate from that model which focuses on:

1. Keeping your own to reasonable contracts but no one is worth breaking the banks for
2. Know when not to commit to long term contracts for players who will not be able to perform over the course of the contract
3. Build and restock through the draft not free agency. Only use outside free agent acquisition to fill short term gaps in most cases.

As I said it is equally incumbant on harrison and his agent to recognize how the Steelers do business and buy into the system. Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.

Simple choice. Sign a reasonable and fair Steelers contract that will set you and your family up for several generations (if you are wise) or be prepared to leave after next season and hope you don't get hurt. Also, keep in mind that the Steelers have already made you a multi-millionaire and you play for a quality organization with the greatest fans in the world. Bettis understood that. Faneca didn't and now he dwells in mediocrity.

[ramblinjim]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Just wondering....if Harrison remains on his current contract, and the Steelers don't dump Foote...

and if they DO draft an ILB this draft...

Could Harrison be let to walk, Timmons to OLB, and then the rookie & Foote take over the middle (as Farrior rides off into the sunset...)?

This, plus the year Harrison has left, plus the franchise tag, are the reasons that the Steelers hold all the cards in this negotiation. Having Harrison definately makes Woodley better. But will that be true after two more seasons (1 contract + 1 tag). If Davis comes along, we might not even need to move Timmons.

If what the agent says is true, I think this is looking more and more like the way it will pan out. As many have said, we need cap room to sign good young players. I don't necessarily mind letting Harrison walk after a year or two.

At the risk of sounding like DVS, it might also be worth seeing what someone would give up for him before the draft (if negotiations stall). Do you think that a reigning NFL DMVP would be worth a first to a team making a switch to a 3 - 4? I don't think I'd do this unless the deal was sweet, but we do have four very good LBs we can field if we didn't have Harrison. An extra day one pick could be used to get another LB, or to get some help on either line.

"We're not anywhere near Haynesworth numbers. We're nowhere near Ben's numbers. We're not asking for him to be the highest-paid Steelers player."

Anyone else think that this means they asking for him to be the highest paid player on D? It's an interesting question whether he's worth more than Troy.

Just read this reference your comment about Troy

[quote:31gwdmhx]On the one-year anniversary of Ben Roethlisberger's $102 million signing, the Tribune-Review is reporting that talks between the Steelers and James Harrison's agent are going nowhere. While Harrison still has a year remaining on his contract (Roethlisberger had two), the Steelers would like to finish a deal with their No. 1 off-season priority to see where they stand for the remainder of the spring and summer re-signing period. Of course, the Steelers are hesitant to pay Harrison (31 on May 4) much more than their current highest-paid defender, Troy Polamalu (28 on April 19), who averages $7.55 million per year.

I have to say I agree that he is not worth more. It is not a coincidence that his best season coincided with the emergence of Woodley. They are mutually beneficial for each other, but Woodley has much more upside.

While I understand the opinion of folks who feel that Harrison should not make more than Polamalu's average yearly salary of $7.55 million, the fact is that the market fluctuates and you must adjust. Bart Freaking Scott was just given a deal averaging $8 million per year. We won't go crazy getting into stupid Haynesworth-type numbers (even Harrison's agent acknowledged that that wasn't realistic) but Scott's deal should be the starting point for negotiations now (that wouldn't be the case if we finalized a deal before the start of the free agency period).

Other teams overpaying players is why they go through frequent boom/bust seasons. The Jets are just such a team. When was their last period of prolonged success. The Steelrrs have a business model that places them in the Top 3 teams in this decade in terms of toatls wins and success. They should not deviate from that model which focuses on:

1. Keeping your own to reasonable contracts but no one is worth breaking the banks for
2. Know when not to commit to long term contracts for players who will not be able to perform over the course of the contract
3. Build and restock through the draft not free agency. Only use outside free agent acquisition to fill short term gaps in most cases.

As I said it is equally incumbant on harrison and his agent to recognize how the Steelers do business and buy into the system. Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.

Simple choice. Sign a reasonable and fair Steelers contract that will set you and your family up for several generations (if you are wise) or be prepared to leave after next season and hope you don't get hurt. Also, keep in mind that the Steelers have already made you a multi-millionaire and you play for a quality organization with the greatest fans in the world. Bettis understood that. Faneca didn't and now he dwells in mediocrity.[/quote:31gwdmhx]


Ovie, I can't argue with anything here that you've said. I could see Harrison thinking "I didn't really get started till later so I need to go get the money at the top of my game." and would understand that (he does run the risk of having a bad year or getting hurt) But would you rather be a multi-millionaire and also be a big winner or be a multi-millionaire and play for crappy teams? I'm a guy that likes his money but would be inclined to go with the winning organization.

[feltdizz]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

I agree Oviedo but you cannot say Harrison is a product of our system. We said the same thing about JPeezy and he had a great year in Miami...

You could say the same thing about Larry Fitzgerald..
is he the best WR if he is in Tennessee?

Is A.Peterson a beast of a RB in Green Bay?

JH did what he was asked to do in our system and did it very well. Pay him a fair price.

[feltdizz]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Ovie, I can't argue with anything here that you've said. I could see Harrison thinking "I didn't really get started till later so I need to go get the money at the top of my game." and would understand that (he does run the risk of having a bad year or getting hurt) But would you rather be a multi-millionaire and also be a big winner or be a multi-millionaire and play for crappy teams? I'm a guy that likes his money but would be inclined to go with the winning organization.

I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Joey Porter is still a Steeler at heart..
so is Franco Harris, ARE, Chris Hope, etc...

fans think players turn their backs when they leave Pittsburgh but these guys stay in contact...

sometimes we get it confused.. players like challenges as well.. and if they are paid well enough they will go and try to make another team into a winner...
it's their job.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Do you really think that Harrsion is Defensive Player of Year on another team with another system? He earned that as much a part of the players around him as his own individual performance.

I don't know if Harrison would be DPOY with another team, but I have no doubts he would be an outstanding LB with any team. To characterize him as just a "system" player misses the mark, IMO.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the rest of what you've said in this thread, though.

[aggiebones]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

[Oviedo]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

I'd say 4 years/$28-32M with half guaranteed would be more than fair.

Like you said he essentially has no leverage.

[steelblood]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

The Steelers are in the driver's seat here. He is signed for the 2009 season and we can easily franchise him for around 8 mil for the 2010 season. If we franchised him for the 2011 season, I believe the temporary rules would be that he'd get a 20 percent raise. So, essentially we'd have him this year for 1.4 mil, 2010 for 8 mil, and 2011 for 10 mil. This would even out to 21 mil over 3 years. He'd get paid and we'd get to keep him until he is 34 or so. By then (with the way he plays), who knows what sort of condition his body would be in. Also, if Woodley continues to improve and Harrison begins to drop off, we could choose Woodley over Harrison and a long term contract for James wouldn't keep us from signing 56. Flexibility is the key.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Actually, Porter was on that 1-15 Dolphins team.

[Lebsteel]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

The Steelers are in the driver's seat here. He is signed for the 2009 season and we can easily franchise him for around 8 mil for the 2010 season. If we franchised him for the 2011 season, I believe the temporary rules would be that he'd get a 20 percent raise. So, essentially we'd have him this year for 1.4 mil, 2010 for 8 mil, and 2011 for 10 mil. This would even out to 21 mil over 3 years. He'd get paid and we'd get to keep him until he is 34 or so. By then (with the way he plays), who knows what sort of condition his body would be in. Also, if Woodley continues to improve and Harrison begins to drop off, we could choose Woodley over Harrison and a long term contract for James wouldn't keep us from signing 56. Flexibility is the key.

Yep, totally agree with your line of thinking. I don't think Harrison is going to get more than $7 mil./year, so he can either sign now and get some guaranteed $ or just play year to year and take his chances with injury.

[feltdizz]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

I think you look at JPeezy in Miami and ask that question... losing team before he was there and now they made the playoffs...

Actually, Porter was on that 1-15 Dolphins team.

I know.. I'm just saying he went to a team in limbo and they turned it around. I don't see why people are saying a player should only play for teams who are winners or contenders..

unless a player is going to Canada I can't fault any player for going to any of the 31 teams to play ball. People said Edge was a paper chaser for going to AZ when he did and he went to a SB last year...

any team can turn things around... and any player can have a career ending injury on any given play...

[feltdizz]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Harrison has very little leverage. He is due to make almost nothing this season. He really can't play out this contract. Not to mention that the Steelers would franchise him next season. That's 2 more years where who knows what can happen to him. He's not young, young, just a good age. They know this is their big contract, but they lack some leverage. So they'll get a very good contract, but if they are thinking 100M, they are nuts, unless it is backfilled heavily. He won't be seeing guaranteed $41M in 13 months like Haynesworth.
You will see a big contract, but a fair one when done.
Redskins are being ripped off again, so ignore those numbers, they are idiots.

I'd say 4 years/$28-32M with half guaranteed would be more than fair.

Like you said he essentially has no leverage.

he is in a tough spot but the Steelers are pretty fair.. they aren't delusional like the Redskins but they will pay a player like Harrison a nice penny to play ball. Your numbers are pretty Steeler like but I would back load it so it would read 4 for $40 mill... 15 guaranteed.

I wonder what his agent wants?

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?

[feltdizz]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?

It is.. but it's important to both... Steelers kept giving him a shot and Harrison stuck with it and never gave up.

[johnstownsteel]

Re: Third proposal between Steelers, Harrison

Do you think the fact that the Steelers cut JH two or three times is important in these negotiations, even at a subliminal level?

i don't think so but imo the steelers may be thinking, "we're paying you for future production not what you've done in the last two years." i know that seems harsh but really, it's the way business is done. so, where do the steelers feel this 31 year old linebacker will be in 2 to 3 years? will he be producing at the same level or will there be a steady decline in play a/o injury concerns.

other ideas they may be taking into consideration, how's bruce davis developing? or maybe they are thinking that harrsions spot will be filled by timmons. those questions certainly play into the mix.