The Jones vs Fautanu question

[SteelerOfDeVille]

On topic, Troy vs Broderick is easy. They both get a shot at LT? and RT. Because if Dan Moore stays as a backup, he?ll probably come In at LT and either young guy would move over to RT.

That?s my take based on Moore?s history.

Man, they are going to have a tough time cutting to 53 this year. And that?s a good thing

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

On topic, Troy vs Broderick is easy. They both get a shot at LT? and RT. Because if Dan Moore stays as a backup, he?ll probably come In at LT and either young guy would move over to RT.

That?s my take based on Moore?s history.

Man, they are going to have a tough time cutting to 53 this year. And that?s a good thing

I'll say I'm not on board with a backup (assuming Moore does not win the starting spot) determining that a young starter gets moved if they have to bring him in. I'd rather find a backup who can play either.

[feltdizz]

This whole NATURAL POSITION thing is nothing but recency bias.

It WAS a thing with Dotson true. I believe I was among the first to say it here. But the blanket idea that you cannot project a lineman to a different position ever is stupid.

Since Webster in the 70s two of our best 3 centers WERE previously GUARDS (Hartings and Dawson). HOFer Dawson I think was our best ever. Pouncey is literally OUR ONLY center of note since the 70s who was a college center. Who was guard on his college team? His BROTHER who became a center.

ON THIS FORUM me and plenty others were screaming to move Willie Colon to guard which was the right move when we finally did it.

ON THIS TEAM Daniels WAS A CENTER.

Ramon was a college tackle and laughs at fans talking about natural position.

I love that we got Frazer when we did. But there is a reason THE ENTIRE LEAGUE believes guard Barton would make the best center of ANYONE in the draft. Some said similar about our guy Troy.

Speaking of Troy, if we got him as the 7th best player in the draft, are we gonna draft someone we got 25rh over him because he was a college right tackle?

Here are the facts about tackles. MOST OF THE BEST ONES in college are left tackles. Not necessarily because it is their NATURAL POSITION but because you put your elite talent there as it is a more valuable position.

Mark my words, if Barton plays center (he is projected as center because his hands are freakishly quick coming out of his stance) he WILL be better than our guy.

of course its recency bias. It hasn’t worked for us recently so some fans prefer we stop and just draft guys at their natural position.

[Captain Lemming]

He said that he thought *a team* (wink wink) leaked that so he would be around later.

A Khan man might do something like that.

[WindyCitySteel]

This whole NATURAL POSITION thing is nothing but recency bias.

It WAS a thing with Dotson true. I believe I was among the first to say it here. But the blanket idea that you cannot project a lineman to a different position ever is stupid.

Since Webster in the 70s two of our best 3 centers WERE previously GUARDS (Hartings and Dawson). HOFer Dawson I think was our best ever. Pouncey is literally OUR ONLY center of note since the 70s who was a college center. Who was guard on his college team? His BROTHER who became a center.

ON THIS FORUM me and plenty others were screaming to move Willie Colon to guard which was the right move when we finally did it.

ON THIS TEAM Daniels WAS A CENTER.

Ramon was a college tackle and laughs at fans talking about natural position.

I love that we got Frazer when we did. But there is a reason THE ENTIRE LEAGUE believes guard Barton would make the best center of ANYONE in the draft. Some said similar about our guy Troy.

Speaking of Troy, if we got him as the 7th best player in the draft, are we gonna draft someone we got 25rh over him because he was a college right tackle?

Here are the facts about tackles. MOST OF THE BEST ONES in college are left tackles. Not necessarily because it is their NATURAL POSITION but because you put your elite talent there as it is a more valuable position.

Mark my words, if Barton plays center (he is projected as center because his hands are freakishly quick coming out of his stance) he WILL be better than our guy.

Dawson played center and guard in college. Hartings made the switch and was good at it.

Nobody said we never switched positions until recently, we're just saying if you switch a guy from his natural side and he stinks at his new position, maybe you move him back.

[Northern_Blitz]

Dawson played center and guard in college. Hartings made the switch and was good at it.

Nobody said we never switched positions until recently, we're just saying if you switch a guy from his natural side and he stinks at his new position, maybe you move him back.

I don't think many teams would displace a high value UFA signing that they know is good on that side for an unproven 4th round pick who's main problem is pre-snap penalties.

[SteelerOfDeVille]

I'll say I'm not on board with a backup (assuming Moore does not win the starting spot) determining that a young starter gets moved if they have to bring him in. I'd rather find a backup who can play either.

I think Moore starts the season as the starter. For Fauntau, it may well look like it did last year when Broderick took over partway through the season.


Whenever Moore is relieved of his duties, the balance of the season will move the youngsters around because Moore has struggled on the right side.

Sucks, but is better for team.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

of course its recency bias. It hasn’t worked for us recently so some fans prefer we stop and just draft guys at their natural position.

It was that recency bias that I never fully believed that the Steelers were all-in on Barton. Even though he played C three years ago, and did so very well, I think Frazier made the most sense to them. He might not have the same perceived ceiling, but I think the floor is high and the expectation is that he is 100% going to be ready day one.

The Steelers find themselves without a starting C on the roster going into the draft. Last time that happened was after the retirement of Pouncey when the choice was a third round guard with very limited experience at C. There is no margin for error that the pick will not be starting day one.

[Captain Lemming]

Dawson played center and guard in college. Hartings made the switch and was good at it.

Greene played guard AND center in college too.

He was not a day one starter period regardless position. I wanted Creed in the FIRST, and was SHOCKED we did not take him in the second. If Green was not ready for guard day one dont draft him for a less familiar position. It was a mistake. My beef is with broad generalizations.

Nobody said we never switched positions until recently, we're just saying if you switch a guy from his natural side and he stinks at his new position, maybe you move him back.

No disagreement. Look at the forum history. I noticed his struggles before most. Not suggesting everyone can make that change.

THAT IS WHY WE PUT JONES ON THE RIGHT. Moore can?t play that side. It worked beautifully.

[Captain Lemming]

It was that recency bias that I never fully believed that the Steelers were all-in on Barton. Even though he played C three years ago, and did so very well, I think Frazier made the most sense to them. He might not have the same perceived ceiling, but I think the floor is high and the expectation is that he is 100% going to be ready day one.

The Steelers find themselves without a starting C on the roster going into the draft. Last time that happened was after the retirement of Pouncey when the choice was a third round guard with very limited experience at C. There is no margin for error that the pick will not be starting day one.

I would suggest that the misread was that we were going center in the first PERIOD. That means we knew we weren’t going Barton.

Does not mean we don’t like Barton better. That said in is true Frazer is more day one proven ready.

The difference between Barton and Green is that Barton is the BEST interior lineman period. Green was perceived as being too small for guard so move him to the short arm position.

Barton is shooting high, while Green was a settle.

[Northern_Blitz]

Greene played guard AND center in college too.

He was not a day one starter period regardless position. I wanted Creed in the FIRST, and was SHOCKED we did not take him in the second. If Green was not ready for guard day one dont draft him for a less familiar position. It was a mistake. My beef is with broad generalizations.



No disagreement. Look at the forum history. I noticed his struggles before most. Not suggesting everyone can make that change.

THAT IS WHY WE PUT JONES ON THE RIGHT. Moore can?t play that side. It worked beautifully.

I could easily be misremembering, but I thought Green was a G in college but played and practiced at C during the all-star games.

Again...could easily be wrong.

Also...if I remember the posts about Green on the Depot after he was drafted, I think the big complaint they had was that he ended up on the ground way too much. I don't think Green's problem was that he wasn't an NFL starting C. I think his problem was they he wasn't a starting NFL OL.

[Captain Lemming]

I could easily be misremembering, but I thought Green was a G in college but played and practiced at C during the all-star games.

Again...could easily be wrong.

Also...if I remember the posts about Green on the Depot after he was drafted, I think the big complaint they had was that he ended up on the ground way too much. I don't think Green's problem was that he wasn't an NFL starting C. I think his problem was they he wasn't a starting NFL OL.

Started just a handful of games at center in college. I think for injury or something.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I would suggest that the misread was that we were going center in the first PERIOD.

Yes, I agree on that too. Tackle and corner are much more valued positions. I think the team only goes C if there was a truly special player with a huge drop off to the next tier. I don't think that the difference from Barton or Powers-Johnson to Frazier is anywhere near the drop off from Fautanu to Blake Fisher (visited), Rosengarten, Paul.

[Northern_Blitz]

Yes, I agree on that too. Tackle and corner are much more valued positions. I think the team only goes C if there was a truly special player with a huge drop off to the next tier. I don't think that the difference from Barton or Powers-Johnson to Frazier is anywhere near the drop off from Fautanu to Blake Fisher (visited), Rosengarten, Paul.

I think for me, I changed my mind about C in the 1st after seeing the argument that the 5th year option is useless for C's because it forces you to pay them like tackles because the NFL (stupidly IMO) doesn't separate out different positions on the OL for the option values.

So I thought we'd do it if 2 of the top 3 went in the top 19. But I started to assume that wouldn't happen because of the economics.

[Captain Lemming]

I think for me, I changed my mind about C in the 1st after seeing the argument that the 5th year option is useless for C's because it forces you to pay them like tackles because the NFL (stupidly IMO) doesn't separate out different positions on the OL for the option values.

So I thought we'd do it if 2 of the top 3 went in the top 19. But I started to assume that wouldn't happen because of the economics.

Interesting disincentive for EVER taking a center in the first. Might have added predictability to JPJ and Fraser’s drop?