Who is backing who.

[Joel Buchsbaum]

There is less patience but also less risk. While you may lose draft capital, you also aren’t paying a huge lump of money while evaluating a QB on a rookie contract.

I think this is simply about how Aikmen looked early on and it wasn’t anything special.

I hear folks talking about Young being a bust already or Levis being legit after watching him throw zero TDs against us. People just like to label players way too quickly and IMP as long as you have a QB under contract there is a chance for things to click.

Dude Aikman made three pro bowl under his rookie deal. Stop spending falsehoods.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

IMO, Bryce Young is a BUST.

[feltdizz]

I have a hard time with stats? Dude look here, Aikman made the pro bowl after 24 starts. He showed massive improvement for being a rookie on a 1-15 team to his 24 pro start. Check the link below.


See that PB. under awards? It = pro bowl


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

wtf Joel.

Game Starts:

1989: 11
1990: 15
1991: 12 - Pro Bowl

That is 38 starts. You don’t get selected until after the season ends. He was selected in his first pro bowl after his THIRD Season.

What’s makes this even more hilarious is his stats for his 3rd season. 2750 yards. 11TDs 10INTs. 7-5 record as a starter but was injured for the season in the 12th game. He watched Steve Buerline go 5-0 and win a playoff game vs the Bears. Oh the irony.

You have to be doing this on purpose. I have never seen a guy double down and link to stats that prove him wrong like you do.

[Chucktownsteeler]

IMO, Bryce Young is a BUST.

Correct, and how sad it must be to be a Panther fan now. The Bears have there #1 overall pick and the Panthers passed on Stroud for Young.

Another bust is Zach Wilson, who the Jets announced he is free to talk to other teams for a trade. Not sure what team would want him.

[feltdizz]

Correct, and how sad it must be to be a Panther fan now. The Bears have there #1 overall pick and the Panthers passed on Stroud for Young.

Another bust is Zach Wilson, who the Jets announced he is free to talk to other teams for a trade. Not sure what team would want him.

Young is not a bust… yet. I live in Charlotte. That team had nothing on offense and for some reason they thought hiring a failed HC was a good idea because he threw the first TD pass for the franchise.

This season will determine if he is truly a bust. When Theilen is your best WR you have some serious talent shortages on offense.

[Chucktownsteeler]

Young is not a bust… yet. I live in Charlotte. That team had nothing on offense and for some reason they thought hiring a failed HC was a good idea because he threw the first TD pass for the franchise.

This season will determine if he is truly a bust. When Theilen is your best WR you have some serious talent shortages on offense.

Would you pick Young over Stroud?

Plus your #1 pick this year????

[WindyCitySteel]

Would you pick Young over Stroud?

Plus your #1 pick this year????

I wasn't sold on Stroud, but even less so on Young -- he's way too small to succeed long term.

[feltdizz]

Obviously I would take Stroud over Young after year 1. However, I don?t think that has anything to do with concluding that Young is a bust after 1 year.

Troy Aikmen was brought up as an example of a bad first year and a QB who didnt have success early.

Look at Carolinas roster on offense last year. Pooh pooh

Now look at Aikmen and Young’s rookie stats:

Aikmen: 0-11 7TD, 18INT 1800 yards
Bryce: 2-14 10TD, 11INT 2870 yards

Its way too early for the word bust for Young. If you follow Carolina (I live here) you would know that roster was terrible. The GM was really bad and made some terrible moves these last few years.

Now Zach Wilson? Yes.. I think think he is a bust because he lacks leadership skills but I also think he was overdrafted like Mitch and should have never been selected that early.

[flippy]

wait, wait.. hold up.

If Kenny beats out Mason its only because of draft pedigree?

It can?t because Kenny is better than Mason??

Aren?t you also on record admitting you were wrong about Mason this year because ?he was benched for Duck?

You really need to slow down on crowning Mason because he looked better without Canada after Mitch crapped the bed.

Without Canada, Kenny could be much better than Mason when both are healthy. That isn?t impossible. Mason could also beat him out, but acting like the only way Kenny could win is draft pedigree is laughable.

Nick Foles won a SB but that man was a terrible starter the next year.

I was just making the point that training camp and preseason don?t compare to in season games.

There?s no way for KP to really prove he?s the better QB assuming we sign Mason and they compete for the job. So it would have to come down to coaches feeling he has the better potential long term. They have no in stadium results to back up those expectations so that?s why I say pedigree.

And yes, I was not a Mason fan early on. Heck, I even wanted a #3 QB that was younger and had potential for the future. Mason proved me wrong. He fixed a lot of his negatives and i think it?s reasonable to change my mind on him.

The more we learn the more we all change our minds and expectations.

im still a big believer that Kenny will put the work in and eventually be successful like he was at Pitt. I just think it?s fair to now ask, why wait for Kenny when it seems that Mason may be ready now. Mason definitely performed better than everyone thought he would.

["BuzzNuter"]

Stroudt is a good example of why the Combine is valuable. Young didn't participate Stroudt did. Stroudt was outstanding at the combine at the throwing drills.

He was so much more smoother than all the other QBS. He had excellent arm strength. I commented on here about him at the time.

Stroudt is another good example of QB development. How did the Texans improve so much this year? I believe the main reason is Stroudt. In today's football the QBS coming out of college are so much more prepared then 30 years ago. They run a lot of pro type offenses and the pros run a lot of spread offenses. Because of this I don't believe the 3 or 4 year wait time is as applicable. A franchise QB in today's football is identified after 20 starts for sure.

Another thing to consider Stroudt replaced Fields at Ohio State. He was much more pro like at Ohio State then Fields. Fields is more Tebow like in that he ran A lot where as Stroudt rarely ran in college.

[WindyCitySteel]

Stroudt is a good example of why the Combine is valuable. Young didn't participate Stroudt did. Stroudt was outstanding at the combine at the throwing drills.

He was so much more smoother than all the other QBS. He had excellent arm strength. I commented on here about him at the time.

Stroudt is another good example of QB development. How did the Texans improve so much this year? I believe the main reason is Stroudt. In today's football the QBS coming out of college are so much more prepared then 30 years ago. They run a lot of pro type offenses and the pros run a lot of spread offenses. Because of this I don't believe the 3 or 4 year wait time is as applicable. A franchise QB in today's football is identified after 20 starts for sure.

Another thing to consider Stroudt replaced Fields at Ohio State. He was much more pro like at Ohio State then Fields. Fields is more Tebow like in that he ran A lot where as Stroudt rarely ran in college.

They really didn't have a ton of designed runs for Fields at OSU, he scrambled more than Stroud (no 't') -- you're thinking of Cliff Stoudt.

[feltdizz]

I don’t think the combine was the difference or helped Stroud and hurt Young.

Stroud was just legit. Usually Ohio State QB’s don’t translate well in the NFL. I think Stroud didn’t run until the BCS game vs UGA because he didn’t want to be seen as a mobile QB.

I heard a sports guy say Caleb and Young are a lot alike because they scrambled and bought time before finding guys. This is definitely my main concern with Caleb. He rarely throws on schedule.

Young’s problem is mostly pressure. His OL was garbage and Young did not create plays like I expected but he also lacks legit targets. If he gets a clean pocket I think he will improve this year. I really don’t think BY is a bust. Its too early.

People need to remember Panthers gave up picks and their best WR to move up. Texans received extra 1st rd picks from the Browns to move Watson. They also hit a home run with a young HC hire while the Panthers hired an old, outdated HC who failed in Indy and couldn’t figure out who to play at QB his last year before getting fired.

[feltdizz]

They really didn't have a ton of designed runs for Fields at OSU, he scrambled more than Stroud (no 't') -- you're thinking of Cliff Stoudt.

but Fields would take off much quicker than Stroud. Buckeye fans hated the fact that he wouldn’t run. I seen him take 3 yard losses running out of bounds instead of throwing it away. Stroud left a ton of first downs on the field at OSU.

[feltdizz]

I have a hard time with stats? Dude look here, Aikman made the pro bowl after 24 starts. He showed massive improvement for being a rookie on a 1-15 team to his 24 pro start. Check the link below.


See that PB. under awards? It = pro bowl


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm

Did you ever figure this out or are you going to triple down on this 24 games to make a pro bowl misinformation?

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

Moving away from the Stroud vs. Young and back to.... you know, Steeler QBs.

Why does anyone feel the need to jump in now to back either QB? I'm just hoping for a legit open competition, and may the best man win, whether it is Rudolph, Pickett, a free agent, or a rook. Whoever the winner of that competition is, the man who is the starter going into next season, will be the guy I'd back and the one who I will hope to succeed. The only thing I don't want to see is one QB installed as the starter without a true competition and the team either sticks with him too long to prove they didn't make a mistake or they panic, like the did with Trubisky in '22.

I get some guys want to pick their favorite now to win the job, but find it funny when their guy doesn't win and they hope the other guy fails just to prove they were right all along. I will always take team success over failure just so I can say that I was right all along.

[Eich]

Moving away from the Stroud vs. Young and back to.... you know, Steeler QBs.

Why does anyone feel the need to jump in now to back either QB? I'm just hoping for a legit open competition, and may the best man win, whether it is Rudolph, Pickett, a free agent, or a rook. Whoever the winner of that competition is, the man who is the starter going into next season, will be the guy I'd back and the one who I will hope to succeed.

There won't be legit competition. And I'm not sure we're very good at evaluating one in camp anyway.

If we don't bring in an expensive free agent, Kenny will be the starter on day 1, barring injury. If Mason is the guy behind him, KP8 will be looking over his shoulder with a relatively short leash attached to his neck. He must produce early. And the coaching staff must give him every opportunity to succeed.

If we bring in an expensive free agent, said free agent will be the starter on day 1, again barring injury.

I think injury is the only way that Mason is starting on day 1.

I think the only thing that could disrupt this order is if the Steelers make some moves to draft a QB in an early round and that guy somehow sets camp on fire.