Is Our Roster Depth Insane?

[flippy]

I cannot remember a time when I thought our depth and backups were so good at so many positions.

I know it is preseason and everything is a possibility now but I keep coming back to how will we use the guys we have.

just from a skill position perspective, there are 5 slots to get on the field at any one time and I am excited about GP, DJ, Pat, CA3, ARob, Najee, Warren, Meatball, and Darnell.

How will we rotate guys? Will some exciting players end up not getting used?

Defensively there?s even more depth. The Dline is stacked. Where does a guy like Leal fit? I still think he can become our most dominant defender.

Then we got guys like Herbig who put up a stat line most player don?t dream of while playing 10 snaps.

The ILBs are loaded. The Ss are loaded with depth. What is our base D? No matter how we slice it, I feel like we?ll still have 6-8 guys on the bench most of the time who could be starters elsewhere.

I know we love situational football and matchups, but how do these guys get into a flow of a game if we have to rotate so much?

I know it?s a good problem to have more talent than less, but I see it as a huge challenge for the coaches to figure out who to use and when and that could make a bigger difference on this season and how it plays out than anything.

[whisper]

I enjoy your optimism, even if I don't share it to the same degree.

Almost all of the players you listed, they have "potential" but not undoubted stars.

DJ has never put it together, still drops passes and runs backwards. ARob hasn't had a decent year for TWO seasons and he's in his 30's. Has been hurt for two years. Meatball? Ah, yes, he's kind of cute out there, waddling around like a good meatball, but is he an everydown legit playmaker or just the little cute guy who overachieves here and there? Pickens I think is a legit future star. Muth is a near top-10 TE. Najee has been beaten to death on here as far as how legit of a starting NFL RB he is. Mnt. Washington is all potential at this point. Good potential, but just potential just the same. I'm more excited about Warren on this list than most other players.

DL? Are we really "stacked?" Leal is just potential, Heyward close to retirement. Larry O has 1 to 2 years left. Isn't he hurt again?

At ILB, we will see. I like Robinson a lot. Alexander is looking really nice, but who knows how he will hold up. Holcomb and Roberts seem decent. The group seems better than we've had the last 2 years.

At safety, we have Fitz and some spare parts. I like Kazee.

I guess I am agreeing we could be deeper than we've been in a while, but it's still pretty speculative.

What I am sensing is a new thought model, which I suspect is coming from Kahn and Weidl and is infecting - in a good way - the whole team, including Tomlin. I just watched/listened to a presser of Shades and it seems his mindset is improved and freshened. I think stodgy, old cantankerous Colbert was holding this team back. And with the fresh breeze of Kahn/Weidl comes a new, more-vigorous heartbeat.

Sorry to depress the haters, but I'm starting to believe in this new team.

[flippy]

I tend to agree it?s almost all potential at this point but I?m noticing the improved quality of guys in general in camp.

It?s a good mix too of vets and young guys. Can some of these older guys stay healthy? Can some of these guys live up to their potential?

Can some guys turn it around.

I also get my view is skewed. I?m big on Leal watching him dominate guys in practice for 2 straight years in camp. I probably over believe in Kenny being a Pitt fan. I?m probably a little high on Najee watching most of the AL games in our house.

Im even big on Canada having chatted with him a couple times the last few years and he?s a good dude.

I can see why we get frustrated when the team doesn?t get over the hump. I?ve been wondering for years if it?s Tomlin, Colbert, Rooney, or even vet big contracts that limited us.

We?ll see what happens, But despite all this, I get the sense it?s better than it?s been. And I think you and everyone else is thinking more about the potential of this team and it?s why camp was more packed with fans than it?s ever been.

[Steel Maniac]

I too am sensing it; Been sensing it since Khan officially came on board and he and Weidl have laid the ground work and have tried to give the team a definitive identity. I'm anxious to see if this new approach is going to trickle down to Tomlin as well; Hoping Tomlin does a few things differently than he has the last decade. Like Flippy was noting, the overall depth of the team is better then it's been in a while. Now if we can just get out of preseason healthy, I'm excited to see how we stack up against one of the best teams in the league in the 49ers.

I think that after our next draft, based on the way Khan/Weidl drafted this year, our team will really be stacked! I have confidence that the few remaining areas we need to address will get addressed.

[whisper]

I too am sensing it; Been sensing it since Khan officially came on board and he and Weidl have laid the ground work and have tried to give the team a definitive identity. I'm anxious to see if this new approach is going to trickle down to Tomlin as well; Hoping Tomlin does a few things differently than he has the last decade. Like Flippy was noting, the overall depth of the team is better then it's been in a while. Now if we can just get out of preseason healthy, I'm excited to see how we stack up against one of the best teams in the league in the 49ers.

I think that after our next draft, based on the way Khan/Weidl drafted this year, our team will really be stacked! I have confidence that the few remaining areas we need to address will get addressed.

Of course, almost everything is contingent of having the right QB, or little else matters. Kenny has to be legit or we aren't going anywhere.

[WindyCitySteel]

I agree, depth on OL, DL, OLB, WR, QB, RB...little worried about slot corner and S, but you can't be deep everywhere.

[NorthCoast]

I tend to agree it?s almost all potential at this point but I?m noticing the improved quality of guys in general in camp.

It?s a good mix too of vets and young guys. Can some of these older guys stay healthy? Can some of these guys live up to their potential?

Can some guys turn it around.

I also get my view is skewed. I?m big on Leal watching him dominate guys in practice for 2 straight years in camp. I probably over believe in Kenny being a Pitt fan. I?m probably a little high on Najee watching most of the AL games in our house.

Im even big on Canada having chatted with him a couple times the last few years and he?s a good dude.

I can see why we get frustrated when the team doesn?t get over the hump. I?ve been wondering for years if it?s Tomlin, Colbert, Rooney, or even vet big contracts that limited us.

We?ll see what happens, But despite all this, I get the sense it?s better than it?s been. And I think you and everyone else is thinking more about the potential of this team and it?s why camp was more packed with fans than it?s ever been.

Most times it's all about the QB. I mean prior to CIN drafting Burrow how often were they mentioned in the conversation for competing for a SB?
It's KP or bust....

[Northern_Blitz]

I do think we're really deep. But my guess is that I'd trade it for an elite player or two (particularly on offense).

AK was talking about how the skill positions are maybe the deepest since 2018. But I'd probably also give up 2-3 of our top 5 skill players for someone as talented as AB. Or all 5 of our top 5 skill players (provided we got OK but not great replacements) for Ben in his prime. Hopefully KP and GP (or anyone) end up being great so we have both depth and great players. And since the O is still very young, it certainly seems reasonable that they might get a lot of growth...but I think it also means that at least some of our depth is presumed depth assuming rookies pan out. And while I really like our class this year, I find it hard to believe that all the guys I think should succeed will end up making it.

It also got me thinking that the last time AK was talking about great depth was probably 2 years ago on the DL. Where it was probably hard to make cuts because we had a lot of real NFL players. But we only had 1 real NFL starter (after Tuitt left).

[flippy]

I do think we're really deep. But my guess is that I'd trade it for an elite player or two (particularly on offense).

AK was talking about how the skill positions are maybe the deepest since 2018. But I'd probably also give up 2-3 of our top 5 skill players for someone as talented as AB. Or all 5 of our top 5 skill players (provided we got OK but not great replacements) for Ben in his prime. Hopefully KP and GP (or anyone) end up being great so we have both depth and great players. And since the O is still very young, it certainly seems reasonable that they might get a lot of growth...but I think it also means that at least some of our depth is presumed depth assuming rookies pan out. And while I really like our class this year, I find it hard to believe that all the guys I think should succeed will end up making it.

It also got me thinking that the last time AK was talking about great depth was probably 2 years ago on the DL. Where it was probably hard to make cuts because we had a lot of real NFL players. But we only had 1 real NFL starter (after Tuitt left).

I like this thinking of the importance of getting just a couple exceptional guys. But where I might be a little different in my thinking is I?m really hopeful that some of these guys with potential are gonna be special.

The guys specifically I?m liking are KP, GP, ARob, Pat, Darnell, IS, DM/BJ, Chuks, Kwon, Herbig, JPJ, Pat, the 3 safety sets, Leal, Benton. I?m also hopeful on DJ making a huge comeback once he and KP are on the same page. And I also think AH is gonna up his game big time.

Then add on TJ being healthy the whole season and that?s a 7 point per week swing on D and we already don?t lose when he plays.

Id gladly take some more stars, but I think some of these guys are gonna really step up.

[steeler_fan_in_t.o.]

I do think we're really deep. But my guess is that I'd trade it for an elite player or two (particularly on offense).

AK was talking about how the skill positions are maybe the deepest since 2018. But I'd probably also give up 2-3 of our top 5 skill players for someone as talented as AB. Or all 5 of our top 5 skill players (provided we got OK but not great replacements) for Ben in his prime. Hopefully KP and GP (or anyone) end up being great so we have both depth and great players. And since the O is still very young, it certainly seems reasonable that they might get a lot of growth...but I think it also means that at least some of our depth is presumed depth assuming rookies pan out. And while I really like our class this year, I find it hard to believe that all the guys I think should succeed will end up making it.

It also got me thinking that the last time AK was talking about great depth was probably 2 years ago on the DL. Where it was probably hard to make cuts because we had a lot of real NFL players. But we only had 1 real NFL starter (after Tuitt left).

I don't disagree that more elite players would be great, but I would say that overall the starting units have improved, and depth is beyond anthing we have seen across the board in a long time. A couple of recent examples of in how much better shape the team is right now:

1) Two years ago, the starting 5 OL consisted of Moore (R), Dotson (2nd yr), Green (R), Turner, Chuks. Going into this season, the expectation is that at LT Moore is better than Moore (R), and is still expected to lose his job at some point, Dotson (who also started last season) will be lucky to survive the axe, Green hasn't dressed in a year and will not be a starter, Turner long gone, Chuks the only holdover and may possibly have competition for his job if Jones unseats Moore. This is an area where 5 positions are the same or much better within two seasons.

2) Think about areas where starters went down, like Shazier in 2017, and the solution was getting Sean Spence off his couch. When Bell went down in the 2016 playoffs? Fitzgerald Toussaint. Retirement of David Decastro? Had to go out and sign Trai Turner. When Tuitt retired, the hopes were for a rookie (Loudermilk who got injured), an already washed up Alualu, and Adams.

I'd love elite, but they don't grow on trees or come cheap. Solid depth is a nice consolation prize.

[Northern_Blitz]

I like this thinking of the importance of getting just a couple exceptional guys. But where I might be a little different in my thinking is I?m really hopeful that some of these guys with potential are gonna be special.

The guys specifically I?m liking are KP, GP, ARob, Pat, Darnell, IS, DM/BJ, Chuks, Kwon, Herbig, JPJ, Pat, the 3 safety sets, Leal, Benton. I?m also hopeful on DJ making a huge comeback once he and KP are on the same page. And I also think AH is gonna up his game big time.

Then add on TJ being healthy the whole season and that?s a 7 point per week swing on D and we already don?t lose when he plays.

Id gladly take some more stars, but I think some of these guys are gonna really step up.

I think it's possible Flip. Crossing all my fingers and toes over here.

[Northern_Blitz]

I don't disagree that more elite players would be great, but I would say that overall the starting units have improved, and depth is beyond anthing we have seen across the board in a long time. A couple of recent examples of in how much better shape the team is right now:

1) Two years ago, the starting 5 OL consisted of Moore (R), Dotson (2nd yr), Green (R), Turner, Chuks. Going into this season, the expectation is that at LT Moore is better than Moore (R), and is still expected to lose his job at some point, Dotson (who also started last season) will be lucky to survive the axe, Green hasn't dressed in a year and will not be a starter, Turner long gone, Chuks the only holdover and may possibly have competition for his job if Jones unseats Moore. This is an area where 5 positions are the same or much better within two seasons.

2) Think about areas where starters went down, like Shazier in 2017, and the solution was getting Sean Spence off his couch. When Bell went down in the 2016 playoffs? Fitzgerald Toussaint. Retirement of David Decastro? Had to go out and sign Trai Turner. When Tuitt retired, the hopes were for a rookie (Loudermilk who got injured), an already washed up Alualu, and Adams.

I'd love elite, but they don't grow on trees or come cheap. Solid depth is a nice consolation prize.

I agree with all of this.

I think we'll certainly challenge for a playoff spot. And I think it will be a disappointment if we don't get in.

But I think we'll be a WC team going against one of the teams we expect to be very good in the AFC.

And I think that's a reasonable expectation this year. Get into the playoffs, but be pretty serious underdogs and likely lose.

To get to the next level (next season IMO), we need some of these young guys on offense to turn into special players IMO. Although maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse to call it the next level, because I think it's actually 2 levels above where we were at the end of last season.

I like the optimism and share it. But there's a lot of hope in young guys that haven't played much (or at all) in the league yet. Crossing fingers and toes though.

[NorthCoast]

I do think we're really deep. But my guess is that I'd trade it for an elite player or two (particularly on offense).

AK was talking about how the skill positions are maybe the deepest since 2018. But I'd probably also give up 2-3 of our top 5 skill players for someone as talented as AB. Or all 5 of our top 5 skill players (provided we got OK but not great replacements) for Ben in his prime. Hopefully KP and GP (or anyone) end up being great so we have both depth and great players. And since the O is still very young, it certainly seems reasonable that they might get a lot of growth...but I think it also means that at least some of our depth is presumed depth assuming rookies pan out. And while I really like our class this year, I find it hard to believe that all the guys I think should succeed will end up making it.

It also got me thinking that the last time AK was talking about great depth was probably 2 years ago on the DL. Where it was probably hard to make cuts because we had a lot of real NFL players. But we only had 1 real NFL starter (after Tuitt left).

Somewhere in cyberspace I remember reading a study someone did on roster construction. They compare teams with a couple of elites + mostly lesser players to teams stocked with average players but no elites. I don't remember the details but do remember the conclusion. It's a case of 'either or'. Neither roster produced obviously better records.
(I'll try to find it again and post... little bit of a longshot).

[Northern_Blitz]

Somewhere in cyberspace I remember reading a study someone did on roster construction. They compare teams with a couple of elites + mostly lesser players to teams stocked with average players but no elites. I don't remember the details but do remember the conclusion. It's a case of 'either or'. Neither roster produced obviously better records.
(I'll try to find it again and post... little bit of a longshot).

That's pretty interesting NC.

I'm kind of surprised. It seems to me like salaries in most leagues with caps are turning to "pay elite guys most of the money and pay everyone else as little as possible". Although maybe the best example of this philosophy is my Leafs...and they've had little success once the playoffs come around. But they're clearly cursed, so I don't know if they're a good example.

[flippy]

Somewhere in cyberspace I remember reading a study someone did on roster construction. They compare teams with a couple of elites + mostly lesser players to teams stocked with average players but no elites. I don't remember the details but do remember the conclusion. It's a case of 'either or'. Neither roster produced obviously better records.
(I'll try to find it again and post... little bit of a longshot).

Would like to see more on this.

My gut would say a elites are more important. Just take the example of the Steelers with and without TJ.

Or NE with and without Brady.

Heck Andy Reid wasn’t winning SuperBowls before Pat and in all these cases, the Steelers, Pats, and Eagles with Reid all had above average rosters.