Buy or sell. Second or third year players.

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  • Joel Buchsbaum
    Legend
    • Jan 2021
    • 7744

    Buy or sell. Second or third year players.

    I would like to read other posters opinion on the following guys:

    Moore jr. OT . He is signed for cheap and at worst is a fair 3rd tackle. But he also played poorly the past two years and has a talented 1st round pick ( who shined in the SEC ) staring back at him in the face. In a perfect world he beats out Chucks, and we save a ton one the cap, and Jones shows he is an upgrade at RT or LT as a rookie.

    I say mild buy for him, as I am optimistic he is a cheap upgrade over Chucks or at best a solid back up at worst. If he doesn't win a starting job, chalk him up as a 4th round pick.


    Mark Robinson, ILB

    Robinson showed to be impressive in the pre-season , leading the team in tackles and just fine starting the last two games. He did not have a lot of experience at linebacker. This is his second season.

    Buy! I think he is our best in the box linebacker vs. the run, and a player who offers hitting ability to force the fumble, bitizing ability to sack the passer, and can shed blockers well. He also makes a high amount of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. His speed is solid and he is super strong. Can he cover the pass? Maybe he can do that adequately. We shall see. He is entering his second season.


    P. Harvin III. P Our punter is in his third season. He has shown a good but erratic leg and rate at the bottom of punting average and net adverge. His get off time is below average as well, and he is not even in football shape.

    Sell! I think Mann is better and will beat Harvin III out.


    Najee Harris. RB. His low production in and yards per rush and catch rates last among projected NFL starting backs. While his durability to play in games and total yards is okay, that is not the issue.

    Sell. Harris should do a little better in YPC and YPR in 2023 due to Offensive line upgrades, but he will not get a 2nd contract form the Steelers and he might be beat out for the starting job this year. He will join former first round picks Bush and Edwards... two players who I was against where they were selected, and were disappointments in round one. I have nothing against Harris personally. He is easy to root for.


    Jaylen Warren. RB. All he did was beat out two veterans as an undrafted rookie and produce a good YPR and YPC yardage.
    Buy! Now that he has a full season under his belt and has come back bigger and stronger , I can't wait to see what he will do.

    Buy. He will likely start a game in 2023 and perhaps win the job as our primary back some time this year.


    Kenny Pickett. QB. The Pink Elephant in the room. As a rookie I think he did not show the needed velocity in his arm, he wasn't durable enough suffering two consciousnesses and led our offense to about 18 points in games he started. He was the beneficiary of the Steelers leading the NFL in interceptions too. He did not pass for many yards either.

    Sell. They say a player's biggest jump in production is in his second year. Picket must prove to be better than a game manager. He does not need to be a franchise QB. But a top 15 QB is needed to advance in the playoffs.


    George Pickens. WR . I will keep this short, buy with both hands


    Kendric Green. Did not play for a game in 2022.

    Sell. He won't make this team unless injury hits.


    Calivn Austin. WR. An injury in the pre -season cost him the season.

    Buy. Early reviews in mini camp are positive. He should prove to be a mis-match slot WR and at least a good #4 Wr.


    Pat Friermuth TE A productive top 10-12 type of TE in the NFL. He is a factor in the passing department.

    Small buy. He must prove he can stay healthy.


    Demarvin Leal DE.

    He had a positive overall rookie season based on the amount he played.

    Mild buy. This year he should be at least a solid DE off the bench. A hard player to project due to limited playing time last year. I would be shocked if he doesn't make the team.



    - JB
    Last edited by Joel Buchsbaum; 06-23-2023, 02:38 PM.
    Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game in seven years and counting. The earliest will be eight years. I guess that in Art Rooney's II, opinion is worth a 3 year extension.

    Our 2024 draft looks to be grade A. Our 2023 draft is an A. The roster is talented, but Mike Tomlin is still the head coach.

    *** Mike Tomlin is the best coach since the AFL- NFL merger that has not won a playoff game in 8 seasons or more. It's either him or Lewis. ***
  • feltdizz
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 27568

    #2
    If you played a lot.. SELL
    If you barely played.. BUY

    Robinson did not play well in his second game. He was comically bad. I remember one play he dove at air before the RB even got to him.

    I still think he will be good once he gets more reps but if you think he played well with 1 tackle vs the Browns you didn?t actually watch the game.

    Breakdown of Robinson?s whiffs vs the Browns. To be fair, whole defense had 12 missed tackles. Robinson has the speed but he can?t keep tackling with his head down. Its how you end up diving at air.

    He did play well vs the Ravens. Did not play well vs the Browns. Maybe he had some dirty work and took on blockers but it was not a good outing for him.

    After being one of the better tackling teams in the league all season long, the Pittsburgh Steelers put up their worst performance of the season in the
    Last edited by feltdizz; 06-23-2023, 04:34 PM.
    Steelers 27
    Rats 16

    Comment

    • Blitzer
      Pro Bowler
      • Nov 2022
      • 1073

      #3
      Another bash Harris and Kenny thread while praising Warren. Yeah that is exactly what this board needs

      Comment

      • Tennessee Steeler
        Rookie
        • Jun 2023
        • 30

        #4
        I am out long term on Najee. Nature of the position. Ride him two more years then pick up his 5th year option and be done. I do like Warren as a change of pace and solid 2.

        Running backs have become a dime a dozen.

        I like Moore would consider him a mild buy even if it ends up being just a depth swing tackle.

        Green is a hard sell. Doubt he makes the team.

        Robinson and Leal are cautious buys to me. Like them but need to see continued growth.

        Strong buy on Pickens. I hope he keeps working to be great.

        I went to Memphis so I am biased on Austin. He was a college playmaker I am hopeful that translates to the NFL. Consider that a buy.

        Our team goes as Pickett goes. I am hoping for the best.

        Muth is a buy with an asterisk for health.
        Last edited by Tennessee Steeler; 06-23-2023, 04:54 PM.

        Comment

        • Tennessee Steeler
          Rookie
          • Jun 2023
          • 30

          #5
          Originally posted by Tennessee Steeler
          I am out long term on Najee. Nature of the position. Ride him two more years then pick up his 5th year option and be done. I do like Warren as a change of pace and solid 2.

          Running backs have become a dime a dozen.

          I like Moore would consider him a mild buy even if it ends up being just a depth swing tackle.

          Green is a hard sell. Doubt he makes the team.

          Robinson and Leal are cautious buys to me. Like them but need to see continued growth.

          Strong buy on Pickens. I hope he keeps working to be great.

          I went to Memphis so I am biased on Austin. He was a college playmaker I am hopeful that translates to the NFL. Consider that a buy.

          Our team goes as Pickett goes. I am hoping for the best.

          Muth is a buy with an asterisk for health.
          Way out on Harvin. Way too inconsistent. Don’t draft punters ever.

          Comment

          • WindyCitySteel
            Legend
            • Nov 2011
            • 15684

            #6
            Originally posted by Blitzer
            Another bash Harris and Kenny thread while praising Warren. Yeah that is exactly what this board needs
            Gonna call him Keebler -- all their cookies have the same two ingredients, but come in a variety of shapes.

            Comment

            • WindyCitySteel
              Legend
              • Nov 2011
              • 15684

              #7
              Mark Robinson was terrible at playing football, the fact that you think he was "just fine" speaks volumes about your ability to analyze the game. He's at best a practice squad player or career special teamer.

              Comment

              • Blitzer
                Pro Bowler
                • Nov 2022
                • 1073

                #8
                Originally posted by WindyCitySteel
                Gonna call him Keebler -- all their cookies have the same two ingredients, but come in a variety of shapes.
                I am going to "Steel" that

                Comment

                • BURGH86STEEL
                  Legend
                  • May 2008
                  • 6935

                  #9
                  Originally posted by WindyCitySteel
                  Mark Robinson was terrible at playing football, the fact that you think he was "just fine" speaks volumes about your ability to analyze the game. He's at best a practice squad player or career special teamer.
                  I don't know how fans pass judgement after one season with general lack of knowledge about a player. Time to develop is what I suggest regardless of the round a player was drafted.

                  Comment

                  • LPMAN
                    Pro Bowler
                    • Sep 2021
                    • 2042

                    #10
                    If Najee keeps staying healthy & plays through injuries i might be buying. Some players like Franco & Bettis have had long careers with us toting the rock. I like the way Najee played down the stretch last year.

                    Comment

                    • Northern_Blitz
                      Legend
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 24382

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Joel Buchsbaum
                      I would like to read other posters opinion on the following guys:

                      Moore jr. OT . He is signed for cheap and at worst is a fair 3rd tackle. But he also played poorly the past two years and has a talented 1st round pick ( who shined in the SEC ) staring back at him in the face. In a perfect world he beats out Chucks, and we save a ton one the cap, and Jones shows he is an upgrade at RT or LT as a rookie.

                      I say mild buy for him, as I am optimistic he is a cheap upgrade over Chucks or at best a solid back up at worst. If he doesn't win a starting job, chalk him up as a 4th round pick.

                      I think he'll start the season as the starter. Get passed on the depth chart and become the swing tackle (despite limited reps at RT). Maybe end up moving to RT in the future if he can do the position switch and be cheaper than Chucks

                      Mark Robinson, ILB

                      Robinson showed to be impressive in the pre-season , leading the team in tackles and just fine starting the last two games. He did not have a lot of experience at linebacker. This is his second season.

                      Buy! I think he is our best in the box linebacker vs. the run, and a player who offers hitting ability to force the fumble, bitizing ability to sack the passer, and can shed blockers well. He also makes a high amount of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. His speed is solid and he is super strong. Can he cover the pass? Maybe he can do that adequately. We shall see. He is entering his second season.

                      I was hopeful on Robinson a couple of weeks ago. Then the the DC straight up said he's not going to play this year. Then we signed a guy with 43 starts (after already signing two other UFAs to be the starters). So, Robinson is most likely 4th on the depth chart. I think he makes the team and plays predominantly ST unless we get multiple injuries at ILB.

                      P. Harvin III. P Our punter is in his third season. He has shown a good but erratic leg and rate at the bottom of punting average and net adverge. His get off time is below average as well, and he is not even in football shape.

                      Sell! I think Mann is better and will beat Harvin III out.

                      Harvin's a bit like Robinson to me. I had high hopes. But I think he's too inconsistent to be an NFL punter. It's a position where consistency is way more important than a big leg. I'd imagine that shanked punts can be as bad as turnovers sometimes. Needs strong competition and hopefully gets beat out. Or finds a way to be consistent...and I guess he probably was more consistent last season after a pretty brutal first year.

                      Najee Harris. RB. His low production in and yards per rush and catch rates last among projected NFL starting backs. While his durability to play in games and total yards is okay, that is not the issue.

                      Sell. Harris should do a little better in YPC and YPR in 2023 due to Offensive line upgrades, but he will not get a 2nd contract form the Steelers and he might be beat out for the starting job this year. He will join former first round picks Bush and Edwards... two players who I was against where they were selected, and were disappointments in round one. I have nothing against Harris personally. He is easy to root for.

                      Will be the starter and an important piece of the offense until the end of his first contract. Will be interesting to see if he earns the 5th year option after this season or if we try to go the Edmunds route. This is a very important year for him. I think he basically needs to be a "real" probowler to get the 5th year option...and I don't think that will happen. I worry that we'll overpay because (1) he seems like an excellent human and (2) we intend to be a strong running team and he's a strong runner. Trusting in Kahn not to make a big payment in a couple seasons.

                      Jaylen Warren. RB. All he did was beat out two veterans as an undrafted rookie and produce a good YPR and YPC yardage.
                      Buy! Now that he has a full season under his belt and has come back bigger and stronger , I can't wait to see what he will do.

                      Buy. He will likely start a game in 2023 and perhaps win the job as our primary back some time this year.

                      Finally a RB that broke Tomlin's reliance on single workhorse backs. Should have happened with Blount, but better late than never. Not good enough to be a starter full time. But good enough to play a fair amount of snaps. And probably won't be an embarrassment if forced to play significant time in a playoff game (unlike many guys in the Bell era).

                      Kenny Pickett. QB. The Pink Elephant in the room. As a rookie I think he did not show the needed velocity in his arm, he wasn't durable enough suffering two consciousnesses and led our offense to about 18 points in games he started. He was the beneficiary of the Steelers leading the NFL in interceptions too. He did not pass for many yards either.

                      Sell. They say a player's biggest jump in production is in his second year. Picket must prove to be better than a game manager. He does not need to be a franchise QB. But a top 15 QB is needed to advance in the playoffs.

                      TBD. Hoping that the big games at the end of the year are a springboard to a great 2nd season. Has shown that he can play within a system that didn't ask too much of him. I think he needs to show that he can be a guy that can win if the running game and / or the D is failing to get a market value 2nd contract. Will get 5 years to prove it under the Steelers.

                      George Pickens. WR . I will keep this short, buy with both hands

                      Has some things that he seems to be on the verge of elite in. But apparently wasn't good at intermediate passes over the middle or YAC. Which are the same things that our QB struggles with. And that our OC seems to shy away from. If he develops into a complete WR, could be very, very good. But after Juju and Claypool lighting it up early and then fizzling out, I'm not getting super-excited about Pickens just yet.


                      Kendric Green. Did not play for a game in 2022.

                      Sell. He won't make this team unless injury hits.

                      Now he's apparently a center again. And he was a terrible center when he played before. I don't expect him to make the 53.

                      Calivn Austin. WR. An injury in the pre -season cost him the season.

                      Buy. Early reviews in mini camp are positive. He should prove to be a mis-match slot WR and at least a good #4 Wr.

                      Who knows? No real information on him yet. Looked good last year and this year in shorts. But that is when quick WRs look great all the time IMO. We'll see what happens when they stop playing touch. We desperately need someone who can get YAC (I still think our best shot is DJ in this area). Hope CAIII can make some plays too. I worry though that he'll be one of those guys that gets 5 snaps a game and the D knows he's the first read on all 5 of those plays. Maybe Canada surprises me with his creativity, but I won't hold my breath.

                      Pat Friermuth TE A productive top 10-12 type of TE in the NFL. He is a factor in the passing department.

                      Small buy. He must prove he can stay healthy.

                      I think you're right here. Not elite, but very good. KP seemed to be developing a report with him too. I think he'll be a good piece of the offense again (hope the concussions stop happening).

                      Demarvin Leal DE.

                      He had a positive overall rookie season based on the amount he played.

                      Mild buy. This year he should be at least a solid DE off the bench. A hard player to project due to limited playing time last year. I would be shocked if he doesn't make the team.

                      I like Leal. I think he did well when pressed into action at not-his-position last season. Seems like they'll use him as a situational guy vs. a full time DL. Hope he can come in and make some plays in limited action. He's not on the list because he's a rookie, but I'm also very interested in seeing Benton and what he can do on the DL. Cam needs help out there.

                      - JB
                      ​My thoughts in gold above.

                      Comment

                      • Blitzer
                        Pro Bowler
                        • Nov 2022
                        • 1073

                        #12
                        Moore- Buy. great depth if a back up

                        Robinson- wait and see. worth a second camp. Hopefully he progresses
                        Harvin- let training camp decide. probably sell
                        Harris- 100% Buy for next 3 years. Dont really care about his 3.9 YPC he is perfect for the offense they are trying to build
                        Warren 100% buy. It is great to have a talented 2nd RB. hope he improves
                        Pickett- Buy. Rookie Contract, played well and more importantly showed improvement every game
                        Leal- Buy. again rookie contract lot of upside
                        Muth- Buy for next 2 years. then wait and see. wanted Creed bad with this pick but oh well
                        Green- Hopefully a buy but training camp will tell. could be great backup on rookie contract or could be sell
                        Pickens- no Brainer Buy
                        Norwood- Probs sell but let training camp work it out
                        Austin- Buy on rookie contract

                        Comment

                        • BURGH86STEEL
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 6935

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Northern_Blitz
                          ​My thoughts in gold above.
                          Simply put time to develop.

                          Comment

                          • feltdizz
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 27568

                            #14
                            I think Harvin is more consistent than folks realize. Most of his punts have little to no return yardage. Sure, he shanks a few as well but I believe we were top 5 in punt return yards.

                            Competition is good but I believe he gets another year. I think its another case of putting all eggs in one stat and not looking at other metrics.
                            Steelers 27
                            Rats 16

                            Comment

                            • BURGH86STEEL
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 6935

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Blitzer
                              Moore- Buy. great depth if a back up

                              Robinson- wait and see. worth a second camp. Hopefully he progresses
                              Harvin- let training camp decide. probably sell
                              Harris- 100% Buy for next 3 years. Dont really care about his 3.9 YPC he is perfect for the offense they are trying to build
                              Warren 100% buy. It is great to have a talented 2nd RB. hope he improves
                              Pickett- Buy. Rookie Contract, played well and more importantly showed improvement every game
                              Leal- Buy. again rookie contract lot of upside
                              Muth- Buy for next 2 years. then wait and see. wanted Creed bad with this pick but oh well
                              Green- Hopefully a buy but training camp will tell. could be great backup on rookie contract or could be sell
                              Pickens- no Brainer Buy
                              Norwood- Probs sell but let training camp work it out
                              Austin- Buy on rookie contract
                              Where is the......... nevermind. I respect your limited knowledge opinion.

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