position coaches / player development

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  • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
    Legend
    • May 2008
    • 10281

    position coaches / player development

    Going back to comments from another thread, I think that this might be the most overlooked issue when it comes to this team. Who are the guys who are responsible for coaching up individual players to make them better. After all, you are not drafting finished products out of college, and in some cases you are bringing in "lumps of clay" who need to be molded and taught the intricacies of their position. Looking at some current and recent concerns:

    WR - Claypool was drafted in the second round as a project. Played HS in Canada, 5 catches as a freshman, and no breakout year until his senior year. Got a helmet weekly to play ST. Watching him today he is an unskilled route runner with poor body control. Saw a video of him last week running in the slot, if he would have angled his route slightly he creates a wide open passing lane but he kept going straight upfield allowing the defender to close the angle. A receiver has to learn that.

    DJ shows sideline awareness problems and obviously drops. We know that he worked on his own last off-season catching tennis balls, but how much time is spent with him working on his concentration? What is being done to help him focus on watching the ball into his hands before eyeing his next move? There is a WR coach, asst coach, and TE coach for good measure. How much individual one-on-one timeis being spent on CC and DJ working on their shortcomings?

    OL - Last year it looked like a coach out of his depth. He was handed garbage, but there did not seem to be one iota of improvement from anyone. Just one guy take a baby step forward. This year during the pre-season the line was awful. One poster told us that new coach Pat Meyer had installed a new technique in which the linemen use their hands independently instead of together. It seemed odd to many of us but I'd say that we are beginning to see some improvements, and I would think that much can be attributed to a coach who is teaching his players. So far, so good.

    OL - Kendrick Green. Last season the Steelers drafted Green to move from a position he played most of his career to a position he had played a few times. The rationale was that his skillset could translate to center and the scheme that the team wanted to install. But they brought him in to a room with a horrible coach. Shouldn't somebody have recognized that a rookie line coach and a massive project that must work ASAP is not a good mix? As much a we all bagged on Green last year, he was set up to fail. No question.

    OL - Dotson. Here is a guy who came in raw and talented. A fourth rounder from a small school with some credentials. Another guy who has not only not progressed, but who has regressed.

    CBs - How many times over the years did we hear that the Steelers can't draft corners? Without going through the list, I always wondered if it was a drafting failure or a coaching and development failure? It is not like they ever drafted a Sauce Gardner, who you tell to just go out and play. When you are drafting guys in the second to fifth rounds, chances are that they need more help than top 15 type picks. One nice recent exception is Sutton, but he was known to already have a high football IQ coming in, so able to figure out a lot on his own. A few with mixed success but nobody who seems to have been developed.
    http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg
  • whisper
    Legend
    • Mar 2020
    • 9423

    #2
    Tomlin teams are known for a lack of player development, but hey, they can dance in the locker room after a rare win. Shades even dropped some "windshield wiper" dance moves. How's he feeling about that dancing now? He sure knows how to act cocky after a win.

    Comment

    • SteelerOfDeVille
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 9069

      #3
      I think the biggest struggle is how to build the organization.
      IMO, the best HEAD coaches are players coaches who motivate and act like a CEO of a company. Just like a CEO would lean on the head of Finance to make financial decisions, these coaches need staff that excel at what they do.
      Bill Cowher was similar... both were at their best when they had Dick LeBeau, respectable offensive play callers and position coaches.

      IMO, head coaches that want to get down into calling plays during the game sometimes struggle to see the big picture because there is simply too much information to process.

      Basically, in that role, I think Tomlin would be fine if he had the coordinators. His biggest problem is that he doesn't have the vision to see who the correct staff should be
      2013 MNF Executive Champion!

      Comment

      • crushedspirit
        Pro Bowler
        • Feb 2021
        • 2214

        #4
        Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
        I think the biggest struggle is how to build the organization.
        IMO, the best HEAD coaches are players coaches who motivate and act like a CEO of a company. Just like a CEO would lean on the head of Finance to make financial decisions, these coaches need staff that excel at what they do.
        Bill Cowher was similar... both were at their best when they had Dick LeBeau, respectable offensive play callers and position coaches.

        IMO, head coaches that want to get down into calling plays during the game sometimes struggle to see the big picture because there is simply too much information to process.

        Basically, in that role, I think Tomlin would be fine if he had the coordinators. His biggest problem is that he doesn't have the vision to see who the correct staff should be
        He keeps hiring from within, which begs the question, why? Nobody within this organization has developed any skills as coordinators or assistants, which begs another question, who's in charge of not only player development, but coaching development?

        Comment

        • SteelerOfDeVille
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 9069

          #5
          Originally posted by crushedspirit
          He keeps hiring from within, which begs the question, why? Nobody within this organization has developed any skills as coordinators or assistants, which begs another question, who's in charge of not only player development, but coaching development?
          Agreed. If you have a guy that learned from the current DC who you just fired, he might not be good enough
          2013 MNF Executive Champion!

          Comment

          • NorthCoast
            Legend
            • Sep 2008
            • 26636

            #6
            Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
            I think the biggest struggle is how to build the organization.
            IMO, the best HEAD coaches are players coaches who motivate and act like a CEO of a company. Just like a CEO would lean on the head of Finance to make financial decisions, these coaches need staff that excel at what they do.
            Bill Cowher was similar... both were at their best when they had Dick LeBeau, respectable offensive play callers and position coaches.

            IMO, head coaches that want to get down into calling plays during the game sometimes struggle to see the big picture because there is simply too much information to process.

            Basically, in that role, I think Tomlin would be fine if he had the coordinators. His biggest problem is that he doesn't have the vision to see who the correct staff should be
            $$$.
            Tomlin isn't a weeds guy. He leaves that to the assistants. His problem has been finding good quality offensive assistants anyway.

            Btw, not just a Tomlin thing. Guess how many OCs Cowher went through during his tenure?

            Comment

            • WindyCitySteel
              Legend
              • Nov 2011
              • 15684

              #7
              Originally posted by crushedspirit
              He keeps hiring from within, which begs the question, why?
              As he said in his presser today, he's highly involved on both sides of the ball. He has more control that most coaches. No reputable OC or DC will put up with that, so he hires lackeys he can push around.

              Comment

              • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 10281

                #8
                Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
                I think the biggest struggle is how to build the organization.
                IMO, the best HEAD coaches are players coaches who motivate and act like a CEO of a company. Just like a CEO would lean on the head of Finance to make financial decisions, these coaches need staff that excel at what they do.
                Bill Cowher was similar... both were at their best when they had Dick LeBeau, respectable offensive play callers and position coaches.

                IMO, head coaches that want to get down into calling plays during the game sometimes struggle to see the big picture because there is simply too much information to process.

                Basically, in that role, I think Tomlin would be fine if he had the coordinators. His biggest problem is that he doesn't have the vision to see who the correct staff should be
                I agree with this approach, and it is also why I hate watching the hottest coordinators constantly moving into the next head coaching vacancy. Being able to design an offense or defense that suits the skills of your players is different than being able to oversee your team and coaching staff while dealing with owners, GMs, and the media.
                http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

                Comment

                • T.Ferguson
                  Pro Bowler
                  • Sep 2021
                  • 2377

                  #9
                  Also isn't Tomlin a defensive backs guy? Why is the secondary always awful? The team had to go out and get Haden and trade a 1st for Minkah because the team apparently can't draft and develop defensive backs or really any defensive players. The players the team drafts that end up playing well are guys who are NFL ready from day 1 like Watt. It's just another serious shortcoming with this coaching staff and Tomlin.

                  Comment

                  • Steel Maniac
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2017
                    • 19472

                    #10
                    Originally posted by T.Ferguson
                    Also isn't Tomlin a defensive backs guy? Why is the secondary always awful?
                    Because he is a fraud; and has been a fraud all along.

                    Comment

                    • Steel Maniac
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2017
                      • 19472

                      #11
                      Originally posted by SteelerOfDeVille
                      Agreed. If you have a guy that learned from the current DC who you just fired, he might not be good enough
                      Your making too much sense. What's wrong with you?

                      Comment

                      • Steel Maniac
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2017
                        • 19472

                        #12
                        Originally posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o.
                        Going back to comments from another thread, I think that this might be the most overlooked issue when it comes to this team. Who are the guys who are responsible for coaching up individual players to make them better. After all, you are not drafting finished products out of college, and in some cases you are bringing in "lumps of clay" who need to be molded and taught the intricacies of their position. Looking at some current and recent concerns:

                        WR - Claypool was drafted in the second round as a project. Played HS in Canada, 5 catches as a freshman, and no breakout year until his senior year. Got a helmet weekly to play ST. Watching him today he is an unskilled route runner with poor body control. Saw a video of him last week running in the slot, if he would have angled his route slightly he creates a wide open passing lane but he kept going straight upfield allowing the defender to close the angle. A receiver has to learn that.

                        DJ shows sideline awareness problems and obviously drops. We know that he worked on his own last off-season catching tennis balls, but how much time is spent with him working on his concentration? What is being done to help him focus on watching the ball into his hands before eyeing his next move? There is a WR coach, asst coach, and TE coach for good measure. How much individual one-on-one timeis being spent on CC and DJ working on their shortcomings?

                        OL - Last year it looked like a coach out of his depth. He was handed garbage, but there did not seem to be one iota of improvement from anyone. Just one guy take a baby step forward. This year during the pre-season the line was awful. One poster told us that new coach Pat Meyer had installed a new technique in which the linemen use their hands independently instead of together. It seemed odd to many of us but I'd say that we are beginning to see some improvements, and I would think that much can be attributed to a coach who is teaching his players. So far, so good.

                        OL - Kendrick Green. Last season the Steelers drafted Green to move from a position he played most of his career to a position he had played a few times. The rationale was that his skillset could translate to center and the scheme that the team wanted to install. But they brought him in to a room with a horrible coach. Shouldn't somebody have recognized that a rookie line coach and a massive project that must work ASAP is not a good mix? As much a we all bagged on Green last year, he was set up to fail. No question.

                        OL - Dotson. Here is a guy who came in raw and talented. A fourth rounder from a small school with some credentials. Another guy who has not only not progressed, but who has regressed.

                        CBs - How many times over the years did we hear that the Steelers can't draft corners? Without going through the list, I always wondered if it was a drafting failure or a coaching and development failure? It is not like they ever drafted a Sauce Gardner, who you tell to just go out and play. When you are drafting guys in the second to fifth rounds, chances are that they need more help than top 15 type picks. One nice recent exception is Sutton, but he was known to already have a high football IQ coming in, so able to figure out a lot on his own. A few with mixed success but nobody who seems to have been developed.
                        Don't forget the Canada hiring as well. Tomlin is following the Verizon "friends & family" plan in hiring.

                        Comment

                        • Ghost
                          Legend
                          • May 2008
                          • 6338

                          #13
                          Kendric Green - moving him to center was a bad decision. But he's back in his old position and has been a healthy inactive for every game. He's not an NFL lineman. Steelers should admit the bad draft and move on from him.
                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • whatever
                            Legend
                            • Sep 2019
                            • 5795

                            #14
                            Originally posted by NorthCoast
                            $$$.
                            Tomlin isn't a weeds guy. He leaves that to the assistants. His problem has been finding good quality offensive assistants anyway.

                            Btw, not just a Tomlin thing. Guess how many OCs Cowher went through during his tenure?
                            Did cowher fire all his OCs because they weren’t good or did they move on to a promotion?
                            How is it possible to have the best owner, best front office, best gm, best HC, good/great drafts every year and good FA acquisitions every year, but only have 3 playoff wins in 14 years?

                            Comment

                            • NorthCoast
                              Legend
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 26636

                              #15
                              Originally posted by T.Ferguson
                              Also isn't Tomlin a defensive backs guy? Why is the secondary always awful? The team had to go out and get Haden and trade a 1st for Minkah because the team apparently can't draft and develop defensive backs or really any defensive players. The players the team drafts that end up playing well are guys who are NFL ready from day 1 like Watt. It's just another serious shortcoming with this coaching staff and Tomlin.
                              Steelers liked Haden at the draft. Couldn't get him. Liked William Jackson. Couldn't get him. The good ones go fast.

                              Edmunds has been solid after a few years of coaching. Sutton is a keeper. Keenan Lewis left to be with his mama. William Gay was solid. Hilton was above average but couldn't keep him (or decided not to).

                              Plenty of flameouts but it's not like they've drafted early rounds at the position. The Steelers like zone defense so they may be looking for guys that fit that profile.

                              They recognize they have a weakness in scouting DBs so they go after FAs. Good ones don't come available all that often but the Steelers will jump when the opportunity is there (Haden, Nelson, Fitz). No problem with this approach. Most take a year or two to develop anyway.

                              Comment

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