Beware Preseason

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • NorthCoast
    Legend
    • Sep 2008
    • 26636

    Beware Preseason

    We all know it, but here it is spelled out;


    The good news is it looks like Pickett is in one of the two top categories and not the bottom ones. Pickens is in no man's land with a 28 YPG average.

    The NFL Preseason Is Not Predictive — But It Can Often Seem That Way
    By Ty Schalter

    AUG. 24, 2022, AT 6:00 AM

    Pittsburgh Steelers rookie QB Kenny Pickett has shined in the preseason. That success might carry over into games that count… or it might not.
    This time last year, Cincinnati Bengals wideout Ja’Marr Chase was being labeled a ‘bust’. With just one catch — on an unremarkable bubble screen — and plenty of drops, Chase’s first preseason didn’t seem to bode well for his professional reunion with college quarterback Joe Burrow. All Chase went on to do was break rookie receiving records, be named the AP Offensive Rookie of the Year and help the Bengals make the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, Chicago Bears rookie quarterback Justin Fields’s preseason debut had fans and analysts alike calling for him to start Week 1. But after putting up a 90.2 preseason passer rating — seventh among qualified QBs — he finished the regular season rated 30th out of 33 qualifiers.

    NFL preseason contests have the reputation of not telling us much about how players will perform in games that count, particularly when we consider how teams approach them. But that doesn’t stop fans or analysts from jumping to conclusions.

    We should know better by now: There’s no correlation between preseason and regular-season passer rating,1 rushing yards per attempt2 or receiving yards per game.3 And it’s no wonder, with so many different combinations of players and circumstances being thrown together in games that don’t actually count.

    Preseason stats are quite limited to begin with, and offensive skill-position players are the easiest for people to assess (and build narratives around). Since 2000, here are some of the most extreme examples of good and bad preseasons that heralded — or didn’t — the same caliber of regular season, starting with quarterbacks:

    How some quarterbacks followed up their preseasons
    Highest or lowest preseason passer ratings for qualified quarterbacks since 2000, grouped by the quality of performance in the regular season

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJrhS5][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJrhS5]Capture[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr


    SOURCE: NFL GSIS

    Kerry Collins is our poster boy for a great-but-meaningless preseason. Having been replaced in New York by No. 1 overall pick Eli Manning, Collins arrived in Oakland in 2004 to replace 38-year-old Rich Gannon. Collins put up monster exhibition numbers, going 14-of-25 for 344 yards, four touchdowns and no interceptions, but he went on to lead the league in picks and oversaw a 3-10 record for the Raiders in games he started.

    Quarterbacks who put up good preseason stats are often good enough to start Week 1, but you don’t really know if your team has a Sam Darnold or a Dak Prescott until the real games begin. A rough preseason can certainly bode ill for new starters — Jimmy Clausen could not cash the large reputational check ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper wrote on his behalf — but they can also precede a coming-out party. And then we have cases like Michael Vick in 2010. By the end of his second preseason since returning from prison, he had given no indication he’d ever throw the ball at a high level ever again; Vick went on to have his best year as a passer.

    How some running backs followed up their preseasons
    Highest or lowest preseason yards per carry for qualified running backs since 2000, grouped by the quality of performance in the regular season

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJxHYY][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJxHYY]Capture1[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr


    SOURCE: NFL GSIS

    Though it’s become common wisdom that tailbacks are as plug-and-play as any position in football, plenty of ball-carriers run wild against the scrubs before getting shut out against starters. 2010 first-round pick Jahvid Best had 129 yards on just 15 rushes in his first preseason; he gained only 426 more regular-season yards that year despite getting 156 more carries. By contrast, Best’s eventual replacement, free-agent veteran Reggie Bush, struggled mightily in preseason before becoming the last Lion to gain over 1,000 yards on the ground.

    But sometimes, a big-deal preseason really is a big deal. Matt Forte was a solid back over his first two years in the league, but everyone, including the Madden video game franchise, underrated his speed. His 89-yard preseason touchdown run against the Raiders heralded a breakout third season; his yards-per-carry jumped from 3.8 over his first two years to 4.5.

    How some wide receivers followed up their preseasons
    Highest or lowest preseason yards per game for qualified wide receivers since 2000, grouped by the quality of performance in the regular season

    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJxJxU][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2nJxJxU]Capture2[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/191750946@N04/]R W[/url], on Flickr

    SOURCE: NFL GSIS

    When it comes to wide receivers, the talent jumps off the page. Randy Moss put up three of the five best preseasons in our sample, and the other two belonged to Julio Jones and Antonio Brown. That trio combined for 20 Pro Bowl appearances and 10 All-Pro selections. But it’s possible for a wideout to show out in preseason and flame out in the regular season; Greg Jennings flashed in his rookie exhibitions, but a 43.3 percent catch rate severely limited his production that year. And even the most physically talented receivers can go missing in preseason: Brown gained just 30 yards over five preseason games in 2015 before racking up career-high 1,834 yards that regular season.

    What does it all mean? Well, we can’t say much more than preseason performance doesn’t mean anything — except when it does. So as this NFL preseason comes to a close, don’t dismiss storylines like rookie Kenny Pickett impressing for the Pittsburgh Steelers as much as he did at the University of Pittsburgh, or undrafted Rams rookie Lance McCutcheon leading the league in preseason receiving. But don’t trade the moon and the stars to get leading preseason rusher Brittain Brown of the Las Vegas Raiders on your fantasy team, either, and don’t worry too much if Tom Brady looks a little rusty when he finally rejoins the Bucs. There surely are clues about the regular season hiding in the preseason, but they’ll be surrounded by red herrings — and we won’t be able to tell which from which until we have real games to analyze.
    Last edited by NorthCoast; 09-04-2022, 01:39 PM.
  • Mr.wizard
    Legend
    • May 2014
    • 6686

    #2
    I agree with this, and I think it goes for every position especially if you are going to get hung up on pre season stats.

    Comment

    • feltdizz
      Legend
      • May 2008
      • 27532

      #3
      Originally posted by Mr.wizard
      I agree with this, and I think it goes for every position especially if you are going to get hung up on pre season stats.
      that was a long article that could be summed up by that one sentence.

      “preseason doesn’t mean anything.. until it does”

      All you can do is put them in games and see if they pan out. Its the same with practice. You don’t know until the bullets are live.
      Steelers 27
      Rats 16

      Comment

      • Mr.wizard
        Legend
        • May 2014
        • 6686

        #4
        Originally posted by feltdizz
        that was a long article that could be summed up by that one sentence.

        “preseason doesn’t mean anything.. until it does”

        All you can do is put them in games and see if they pan out. Its the same with practice. You don’t know until the bullets are live.
        I don't think that it means nothing, I just think counting stats means nothing. What means something is play recognition, positioning, communication. Those are things that will translate to the regular season, those are what the coaches are looking at.

        Comment

        • feltdizz
          Legend
          • May 2008
          • 27532

          #5
          Originally posted by Mr.wizard
          I don't think that it means nothing, I just think counting stats means nothing. What means something is play recognition, positioning, communication. Those are things that will translate to the regular season, those are what the coaches are looking at.
          not if it isn’t done in the games.

          which is why “til it does” completes the thought.
          Steelers 27
          Rats 16

          Comment

          • steeler_fan_in_t.o.
            Legend
            • May 2008
            • 10281

            #6
            I think that the pre-season is meaningful, it's just that it is something different for every team and the final goal - unlike in the regular season - is not wins.
            http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...to_Mike/to.jpg

            Comment

            • NorthCoast
              Legend
              • Sep 2008
              • 26636

              #7
              Originally posted by feltdizz
              that was a long article that could be summed up by that one sentence.

              “preseason doesn’t mean anything.. until it does”

              All you can do is put them in games and see if they pan out. Its the same with practice. You don’t know until the bullets are live.
              So what KP has done doesn't mean anything. Got it.

              Comment

              • feltdizz
                Legend
                • May 2008
                • 27532

                #8
                Originally posted by NorthCoast
                So what KP has done doesn't mean anything. Got it.
                not “until it does..” lol.

                if Kenny starts and stinks what will we say about the preseason?

                If Kenny starts and balls out what will we say about the preseason?
                Steelers 27
                Rats 16

                Comment

                • Bawb the Revelator
                  Pro Bowler
                  • Jan 2022
                  • 1975

                  #9
                  Originally posted by feltdizz
                  not “until it does..” lol.

                  if Kenny starts and stinks what will we say about the preseason?

                  If Kenny starts and balls out what will we say about the preseason?
                  JUST STFU AND REPEAT THE TOMLIN MANTRA

                  Comment

                  • Bawb the Revelator
                    Pro Bowler
                    • Jan 2022
                    • 1975

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bawb the Revelator
                    JUST STFU AND REPEAT THE TOMLIN MANTRA
                    Camus' "Myth of Sysiphus" essay has proven Mike Tomlin's vision!

                    https://youtu.be/wRZjP1ccHL0

                    Comment

                    • Bawb the Revelator
                      Pro Bowler
                      • Jan 2022
                      • 1975

                      #11
                      Yet, somehow, the doubters of Mike Tomlin remain:

                      https://youtu.be/aaFZJ_ymueA

                      Comment

                      • TheRealTazz864
                        Pro Bowler
                        • Jun 2022
                        • 2163

                        #12
                        Originally posted by NorthCoast
                        So what KP has done doesn't mean anything. Got it.
                        And what Emtee has done for the Steelers this preseason doesn't mean anything other than raising his trade value....

                        Comment

                        • Captain Lemming
                          Legend
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 16041

                          #13
                          I cannot believe nobody sees the REAL lesson of this stat.
                          5 of the 6 QBs with better preseason numbers that Kenny were absolute BEASTS on the regular season.

                          It makes the case that EXTREMELY good preseason of Kenny's level are near always accompanied by an outstanding regular season.

                          Kinda the opposite of the point of the thread.

                          Dizz as resident irrational fanboi DRIVING the Pickett train I am especially disappointed in you.
                          Last edited by Captain Lemming; 09-05-2022, 02:38 PM.
                          sigpic



                          In view of the fact that Mike Tomlin has matched Cowhers record I give him the designation:

                          TCFCLTC-
                          The Coach Formerly Considered Less Than Cowher

                          Comment

                          • feltdizz
                            Legend
                            • May 2008
                            • 27532

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                            I cannot believe nobody sees the REAL lesson of this stat.
                            5 of the 6 QBs with better preseason numbers that Kenny were absolute BEASTS on the regular season.

                            It makes the case that EXTREMELY good preseason of Kenny's level are near always accompanied by an outstanding regular season.

                            Kinda the opposite of the point of the thread.

                            Dizz as resident irrational fanboi DRIVING the Pickett train I am especially disappointed in you.
                            If the depth chart is correct and Pickett is 3rd string..

                            no, the preseason didn’t matter, lol.

                            obviously it only matters if you give players a chance to prove themselves in regular season to see if their stats in preseason were legit.

                            smh.. FO and Tomlin are way too conservative and old school.
                            Steelers 27
                            Rats 16

                            Comment

                            • NJ-STEELER
                              Legend
                              • May 2008
                              • 12563

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Captain Lemming
                              I cannot believe nobody sees the REAL lesson of this stat.
                              5 of the 6 QBs with better preseason numbers that Kenny were absolute BEASTS on the regular season.

                              It makes the case that EXTREMELY good preseason of Kenny's level are near always accompanied by an outstanding regular season.

                              Kinda the opposite of the point of the thread.

                              Dizz as resident irrational fanboi DRIVING the Pickett train I am especially disappointed in you.
                              this is the coach you guys stick up for

                              I won't get crazy with the depth chart listing for now, but if mitch misses time or is ineffcetive and pickett isn't the guy to replace him

                              i hope its a fireable offense

                              Comment

                              Working...