Is OLine Coaching The Problem?

[Northern_Blitz]

This helps explain things a bit.

I really don’t think this is a pedigree issue or what round we drafted guys. The issue here is we have guys who have regressed across the board.

Dan Moore had a decent rookie season. Room to improve? Sure. But he had a solid season and he wasn’t this slow moving and off balance turnstile letting everyone past him.

These guys all of a sudden are off balance, slow moving, and giving up ground way to easily. It has to be coaching that’s the problem.

And it seems like we hire coaches that want everyone to fit into their system rather that building systems around players strengths.

Long term, the only saving grace for this unit might be Kenny. Teams will figure out they can’t blitz him cause he’ll make them pay. And the line will just need to figure out how to block 3-4 guys consistently.

An interesting point from the Terrible Podcast Q&A.

They were talking about Alex's video here and said something like "seems like the technique being coached here is feast of famine".

It does kind of seem like that with how aggressive it is.

And when we have a line where guys seem to mess up pretty frequently, playing a high risk / high reward system (if that's what this is) doesn't seem to be a great move.

Maybe there's something more conservative we can do that doesn't have as many amazing plays, but also doesn't open us up to the total whiffs we seem to see a lot with this group.

Seems like with a lot of mistake prone guys, you'd want to have a safe system because you kind of need all the OL to succeed (or at least draw) for a play to be good. Unlike a position like WR, where you just need one guy to beat his man (provided the QB sees him).

[flippy]

Yeah, listening to Ramon Foster after the JAX game it sounds like the fundamentals are getting lost on these guys; "late with their punches, feet not separated, letting defenders into their bodies". And his number 1 no-no "turning their bodies sideways".

Is it too late to call in a 911 to Munch??

What about inviting Ramon in to help?

He’s the perfect example of a former player that might make a good coach. Came in as a UDFA. A big guy for sure, but not an Uber athlete. So he had to figure out the mental side of the game probably to an elite level to get by so he probably can help others figure out what he had to do.

Granted he’s a big dude and can’t teach big, but there’s a lot more I do think he could add.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing us hire an elite wrestling coach. Look how well Carlton H transition from wrestler to All Pro lineman. I still haven’t figured out why wrestling coaches could come in and teach linemen how to get leverage. Heck if I was an OL player, I’d work out with sumo wrestlers in the offseason.

[NorthCoast]

What about inviting Ramon in to help?

He’s the perfect example of a former player that might make a good coach. Came in as a UDFA. A big guy for sure, but not an Uber athlete. So he had to figure out the mental side of the game probably to an elite level to get by so he probably can help others figure out what he had to do.

Granted he’s a big dude and can’t teach big, but there’s a lot more I do think he could add.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing us hire an elite wrestling coach. Look how well Carlton H transition from wrestler to All Pro lineman. I still haven’t figured out why wrestling coaches could come in and teach linemen how to get leverage. Heck if I was an OL player, I’d work out with sumo wrestlers in the offseason.

Foster was asked about it and he politely declined.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Foster was asked about it and he politely declined.

The Steelers are one of the most patient and best run organizations in all pro sports around on the planet.

"it's often easier for one to give advice than it is for a person to run one's own life"

This is what happens on football forums at nauseum.. Fans believe they have all the answers without all the considerations involved. Unrealistic fans thoughts are, "Great players are simply there to be signed". Unrealistic, fans believe the HC controls every aspect of a team. Not one HC in the NFL makes financial or ALL decisions without the ownership's blessing (Dollar Dollar Bill).

Some fans live with the HS level mentally. HS mentality is the HC controls all decisions.

The professional level is different. The only person that controls the direction of a franchise is the owner. Why some fans remain stuck in the "HS coach thinking" mode is beyond me at this point.

I will never claim to know the inner workings of the Steelers. I can see that they are building their offense up from a QB and skill position perspective. I assume that it takes longer to develop skill position players than it takes to develop Olinemen.

This team building ish isn't easy. Winning and not having losing seasons isn't easy in pro sports.

I believe the Steelers have a plan. I can see the plan. When their plan comes together added with some luck (injury vs backups) then they will become a solid contender for the Superbowl again. What more can I say?

[SteelerOfDeVille]

admitting that while he did not have a good game, i was annoyed by the holding call on Moore at the end of the first half. The d-lineman jumped and he did what he needed to protect his QB after the other guy had a head start. Seems like those should be waved off.

...just re-watched the replay on NFL network and i had forgotten about the fact that the DE jumped

["BuzzNuter"]

I don't understand the discussion here. Our OL is terrible because our O lineman are terrible.
They were not as noticeable last year because Big Ben was able to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less. They were exposed against Jax when Trubisky was in because he took a little longer then 2 seconds.

I don't get the discussion. These guys have been playing Oline since they were 12 years old. They know how to do it. They know technique. They are bums. Perhaps the Rooney's are thinking back to Haselrig and Streylsnik(sp) and think they can discover guys.

Pickett has to be the QB not because he's so much better then the other 2 but because he played last year at Pitt with a bad OLine and he can make something happen quick. I'm afraid though with these bums he will lose a knee.

[feltdizz]

admitting that while he did not have a good game, i was annoyed by the holding call on Moore at the end of the first half. The d-lineman jumped and he did what he needed to protect his QB after the other guy had a head start. Seems like those should be waved off.

...just re-watched the replay on NFL network and i had forgotten about the fact that the DE jumped

yes, that was a great hold by Moore and I was confused they had offsetting..

just blow the play dead IMO instead of offsetting penalties

[feltdizz]

I don't understand the discussion here. Our OL is terrible because our O lineman are terrible.
They were not as noticeable last year because Big Ben was able to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less. They were exposed against Jax when Trubisky was in because he took a little longer then 2 seconds.

I don't get the discussion. These guys have been playing Oline since they were 12 years old. They know how to do it. They know technique. They are bums. Perhaps the Rooney's are thinking back to Haselrig and Streylsnik(sp) and think they can discover guys.

Pickett has to be the QB not because he's so much better then the other 2 but because he played last year at Pitt with a bad OLine and he can make something happen quick. I'm afraid though with these bums he will lose a knee.

Not sure Pitt’s OL was all that bad.

and I disagree, we all knew the OL was bad with Ben last year.

I also think Jags front 7 are better than we want to admit. That rookie is a problem. I happened to catch both Jag games and they have a nice pass rush.

[feltdizz]

The Steelers are one of the most patient and best run organizations in all pro sports around on the planet.

"it's often easier for one to give advice than it is for a person to run one's own life"

This is what happens on football forums at nauseum.. Fans believe they have all the answers without all the considerations involved. Unrealistic fans thoughts are, "Great players are simply there to be signed". Unrealistic, fans believe the HC controls every aspect of a team. Not one HC in the NFL makes financial or ALL decisions without the ownership's blessing (Dollar Dollar Bill).

Some fans live with the HS level mentally. HS mentality is the HC controls all decisions.

The professional level is different. The only person that controls the direction of a franchise is the owner. Why some fans remain stuck in the "HS coach thinking" mode is beyond me at this point.

I will never claim to know the inner workings of the Steelers. I can see that they are building their offense up from a QB and skill position perspective. I assume that it takes longer to develop skill position players than it takes to develop Olinemen.

This team building ish isn't easy. Winning and not having losing seasons isn't easy in pro sports.

I believe the Steelers have a plan. I can see the plan. When their plan comes together added with some luck (injury vs backups) then they will become a solid contender for the Superbowl again. What more can I say?

we are following the Bengal formula for rebuilding. Skill positions first. Not because they take longer to develop but because you can overcome bad OL play and still make the playoffs with a bad OL.

How many times have we seen a team like the Jets or Browns draft an OT early who is awesome and they still stink because the QB isn’t any good?

I believe we are now going to invest high picks the OL next draft. Remember if we went OL early we wouldn’t have Pickens, KP, Najee, Claypool, Muth.. so we may have had better OL play but weapons that are average or below average.

[Mr.wizard]

we are following the Bengal formula for rebuilding. Skill positions first. Not because they take longer to develop but because you can overcome bad OL play and still make the playoffs with a bad OL.

How many times have we seen a team like the Jets or Browns draft an OT early who is awesome and they still stink because the QB isn’t any good?

I believe we are now going to invest high picks the OL next draft. Remember if we went OL early we wouldn’t have Pickens, KP, Najee, Claypool, Muth.. so we may have had better OL play but weapons that are average or below average.

Yes I agree I think they draft OL and DL next year.

[whisper]

The Steelers are one of the most patient and best run organizations in all pro sports around on the planet.

"it's often easier for one to give advice than it is for a person to run one's own life"

This is what happens on football forums at nauseum.. Fans believe they have all the answers without all the considerations involved. Unrealistic fans thoughts are, "Great players are simply there to be signed". Unrealistic, fans believe the HC controls every aspect of a team. Not one HC in the NFL makes financial or ALL decisions without the ownership's blessing (Dollar Dollar Bill).

Some fans live with the HS level mentally. HS mentality is the HC controls all decisions.

The professional level is different. The only person that controls the direction of a franchise is the owner. Why some fans remain stuck in the "HS coach thinking" mode is beyond me at this point.

I will never claim to know the inner workings of the Steelers. I can see that they are building their offense up from a QB and skill position perspective. I assume that it takes longer to develop skill position players than it takes to develop Olinemen.

This team building ish isn't easy. Winning and not having losing seasons isn't easy in pro sports.

I believe the Steelers have a plan. I can see the plan. When their plan comes together added with some luck (injury vs backups) then they will become a solid contender for the Superbowl again. What more can I say?

I get your point but you're over-reaching with the setup of NFL teams. Not all teams have owners who get involved and determine the culture/direction of the team. That's simply not true. Some owners do, for sure. Some owners get "too" involved and don't let their HC be HCs. (I am looking your way Jerry Jones.)

Other owners pretend the HC determines everything, but in fact does not (like Pgh). The Steelers act like Shades does all the firing, hiring decisions with things like coordinators but that is just woefully untrue. Some teams really are managed by the GM and HC and the owner stays out of the day to day decisions. It all depends on what the owner prefers. In the NFL, it's all across the board. There is more than one way to skin a cat. But I'd say teams where the owner becomes too involved is not the way to success. If you do that, you take away power from the head coach and players lose respect for him. Jones built his dynasty in Dallas with a head coach who was in control, in Jimmy Johnson. Since Jones booted that set up, it's been 27 years since he's team has sniffed an NFC Championship game. Oh, he had the one "leftover" season winning a ring with the team Jimmy built, but that was fleeting and they only managed to win one more while they should have won 3 more.

We are currently seeing the owner overstep his bounds in Cleveland under Haslam's ownership, and his results will be the same: underachievement. You have to give your HC actual authority or it just doesn't work.