Pro Bowl players surveys

[WindyCitySteel]

Who wouldn't want to play for Coach Cool Dad/Substitute Teacher? No accountability, he'll dance with you in the locker room, and you can always hostage your way to another gig if it doesn't work out.

[Northern_Blitz]

why don't they come here when they're free agents?

Because money matters way more than who the coach is?

[Flasteel]

I think it's important to first mention that I like Tomlin and am glad he is the coach of the Steelers. However, that does not mean he is without his faults, and I agree he should be facing some heat, given the Steelers lack of recent playoff success.

Tomlin has many attributes that would want to make a player play for him. These attributes have been spread far and wide through player networks and over the course of 15 years have established a known reputation. Attributes such as being honest, straight-forward, respectful, a hands-on teacher, and someone who genuinely cares about your growth as a player and a person. I've never met the man or obviously been coached by him, but I know these things to be true about him, based on his reputation. There are likely a dozen more outstanding qualities we could list and more beyond that, which none of us realize. Tomlin is flat-out one of the best leaders of men I've seen coaching in the NFL over the course of my 50 years watching the game from afar (and close up). I'm a graduate of the United States Army's Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy and hold both a master's and doctorate degree in educational leadership. So, if anyone wants to get into a debate on leadership or question my ability to make such an assessment, then simply be advised. The bottom line is that quality leadership is perhaps the most important attribute you look for in a head coach. The guy who can get grown men to run through the proverbial brick wall. Mike T has got that. If you don't think he does, then you aren't paying attention.

None of that however, should protect him from rightful criticism. We can start with the fact that we haven't won a playoff game since 2016 and let that be the ultimate scoreboard. We could talk about his attempted fix of the offensive issues from last year that were a failure on so many levels. We could talk about how every single year this team loses at least one game to a completely inferior opponent - or overall has a tendency to play to their opponent's level. Or his clock management skills. Or his oddly horrible use of the challenge flag, or again, maybe a dozen different things we could harp on. The bottom line is he is not perfect and eventually, that lack of playoff success will cancel-out every good thing Tomlin might bring to the table.

So, for you Tomlin haters on this thread - or on this site - I can clearly see where a lot of your position is born. I get your irritation.

But what I don't get, is how you completely dismiss Tomlin's outstanding qualities. How you ridicule him for being nothing more than an overpaid janitor, or in this latest attack, try to spin the reasons why pro bowl players would want to play for him. I don't understand your inability to acknowledge that he is universally respected by those across all levels of his trade. Your often vitriolic and vulgar responses to those who support Tomlin completely lack that substance and tone.

I think a lot of you guys who would prefer not having Tomlin as the HC, likely have some legitimate arguments. But the way you articulate it and dismiss the differing points of view, completely undermines your credibility, in my opinion. It reminds me of the larger divide in this nation that has been drawn down political lines. The anti-Tomlin group here perfectly reflects and embodies a particular side in that larger divide. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they are the exact same people.

Maybe if both sides could better understand and acknowledge the valid points across the table, then we wouldn't have these ridiculous and incessant flame wars.

[SteelBucks]

The majority of responses in this thread are just sad and pathetic.

[crushedspirit]

I think it's important to first mention that I like Tomlin and am glad he is the coach of the Steelers. However, that does not mean he is without his faults, and I agree he should be facing some heat, given the Steelers lack of recent playoff success.

Tomlin has many attributes that would want to make a player play for him. These attributes have been spread far and wide through player networks and over the course of 15 years have established a known reputation. Attributes such as being honest, straight-forward, respectful, a hands-on teacher, and someone who genuinely cares about your growth as a player and a person. I've never met the man or obviously been coached by him, but I know these things to be true about him, based on his reputation. There are likely a dozen more outstanding qualities we could list and more beyond that, which none of us realize. Tomlin is flat-out one of the best leaders of men I've seen coaching in the NFL over the course of my 50 years watching the game from afar (and close up). I'm a graduate of the United States Army's Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy and hold both a master's and doctorate degree in educational leadership. So, if anyone wants to get into a debate on leadership or question my ability to make such an assessment, then simply be advised. The bottom line is that quality leadership is perhaps the most important attribute you look for in a head coach. The guy who can get grown men to run through the proverbial brick wall. Mike T has got that. If you don't think he does, then you aren't paying attention.

None of that however, should protect him from rightful criticism. We can start with the fact that we haven't won a playoff game since 2016 and let that be the ultimate scoreboard. We could talk about his attempted fix of the offensive issues from last year that were a failure on so many levels. We could talk about how every single year this team loses at least one game to a completely inferior opponent - or overall has a tendency to play to their opponent's level. Or his clock management skills. Or his oddly horrible use of the challenge flag, or again, maybe a dozen different things we could harp on. The bottom line is he is not perfect and eventually, that lack of playoff success will cancel-out every good thing Tomlin might bring to the table.

So, for you Tomlin haters on this thread - or on this site - I can clearly see where a lot of your position is born. I get your irritation.

But what I don't get, is how you completely dismiss Tomlin's outstanding qualities. How you ridicule him for being nothing more than an overpaid janitor, or in this latest attack, try to spin the reasons why pro bowl players would want to play for him. I don't understand your inability to acknowledge that he is universally respected by those across all levels of his trade. Your often vitriolic and vulgar responses to those who support Tomlin completely lack that substance and tone.

I think a lot of you guys who would prefer not having Tomlin as the HC, likely have some legitimate arguments. But the way you articulate it and dismiss the differing points of view, completely undermines your credibility, in my opinion. It reminds me of the larger divide in this nation that has been drawn down political lines. The anti-Tomlin group here perfectly reflects and embodies a particular side in that larger divide. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they are the exact same people.

Maybe if both sides could better understand and acknowledge the valid points across the table, then we wouldn't have these ridiculous and incessant flame wars.

You make some very valid points, so ask yourself what was the point of posting what was voted on by 20 players at a Pro Bowl? What positive influence does it have on the flame wars you pointed out?

Tomlin should get credit for what he accomplished during his first four years on the job, and for his consistent ability to get the team into the playoffs. What gets many turning the other way is the 3-7 playoff record, with 1 AFCC visit, since 2010, and the embarrassing performances during the last 4 playoff games.

So, many want everyone to give him credit when things are successful, but blame the others around him for when things go wrong. You simply cannot have it both ways. My take on coach Tomlin is very simple, he is a good coach that can get his team into the playoffs, but has become lost once he gets there. There is a very obvious issue with his ability to get the team prepared when games matter the most, and the excuses for it are becoming increasingly annoying. The question of how good of a coach he currently is are valid. We already know the regular season successes remain, and full marks for it, but is that his current peak as a leader?

[feltdizz]

why don't they come here when they're free agents?

Probably cap restrictions. I hope when we have money available we can land a few more pro bowl level FA's.

[hawaiiansteel]

The majority of responses in this thread are just sad and pathetic.

I agree, the constant reference to "Tomlin ball washers" is divisive and annoying not to mention disgusting.

[Flasteel]

You make some very valid points, so ask yourself what was the point of posting what was voted on by 20 players at a Pro Bowl? What positive influence does it have on the flame wars you pointed out?

Tomlin should get credit for what he accomplished during his first four years on the job, and for his consistent ability to get the team into the playoffs. What gets many turning the other way is the 3-7 playoff record, with 1 AFCC visit, since 2010, and the embarrassing performances during the last 4 playoff games.

So, many want everyone to give him credit when things are successful, but blame the others around him for when things go wrong. You simply cannot have it both ways. My take on coach Tomlin is very simple, he is a good coach that can get his team into the playoffs, but has become lost once he gets there. There is a very obvious issue with his ability to get the team prepared when games matter the most, and the excuses for it are becoming increasingly annoying. The question of how good of a coach he currently is are valid. We already know the regular season successes remain, and full marks for it, but is that his current peak as a leader?

Nobody is arguing to have it both ways, he deserves credit and blame. It's very possible to appreciate what Tomlin brings to the table, want him to continue coaching the team, yet have him pick his game up in certain areas. He is and should be judged by entire body of work and not just his first four years or last 5. He should also be judged by the qualities he brings to the table, good and not so good. I do agree with you that the bottom line is winning. Not just a winning record each year, but division, conference, and NFL championships. Like I stated previously, if playoff success doesn't find him soon, then all bets are off.

However, one side in this debate is responsible for the overwhelming majority of vitriol being tossed about and constantly running from certain truths. What prompted my post was the continued effort of the anti-Tomlin crowd to ignore the fact that he is universally respected throughout the league for the job he does as a coach. The anti-Tomlin crowd on here largely acts like he's not even qualified for the position. The OP likely dropped this thread in here as further evidence to that point. Without going back to look, I don't remember any name-calling or negativity in the original post. Just with some of the pathetic responses.

[crushedspirit]

Nobody is arguing to have it both ways, he deserves credit and blame. It's very possible to appreciate what Tomlin brings to the table, want him to continue coaching the team, yet have him pick his game up in certain areas. He is and should be judged by entire body of work and not just his first four years or last 5. He should also be judged by the qualities he brings to the table, good and not so good. I do agree with you that the bottom line is winning. Not just a winning record each year, but division, conference, and NFL championships. Like I stated previously, if playoff success doesn't find him soon, then all bets are off.

However, one side in this debate is responsible for the overwhelming majority of vitriol being tossed about and constantly running from certain truths. What prompted my post was the continued effort of the anti-Tomlin crowd to ignore the fact that he is universally respected throughout the league for the job he does as a coach. The anti-Tomlin crowd on here largely acts like he's not even qualified for the position. The OP likely dropped this thread in here as further evidence to that point. Without going back to look, I don't remember any name-calling or negativity in the original post. Just with some of the pathetic responses.

The fact that he is respected, and some players would play for him, is common knowledge. It doesn't define his abilities to be a successful coach, if that was the main point to be made. It just means he's a popular choice for some players, which again, is already known.

[Northern_Blitz]

The fact that he is respected, and some players would play for him, is common knowledge. It doesn't define his abilities to be a successful coach, if that was the main point to be made. It just means he's a popular choice for some players, which again, is already known.

It probably should quite the annual "he's lost the locker room" talk.

Because he's consistently voted as one of the coaches players like the most.

I agree that doesn't mean much for whether a guy is a good coach.

[papillon]

I'm curious, has anyone that posts on this forum been to a closed Steeler practice to see whether the practices are country club like or if the players work hard and are held accountable? if you have, then I'll be happy to take your opinion of how Steeler practices are run and whether they are flag football like or tackle football like. Everyone here is also aware of the CBA limiting contact so there's that.

Pappy

[Chucktownsteeler]

I think it's important to first mention that I like Tomlin and am glad he is the coach of the Steelers. However, that does not mean he is without his faults, and I agree he should be facing some heat, given the Steelers lack of recent playoff success.

Tomlin has many attributes that would want to make a player play for him. These attributes have been spread far and wide through player networks and over the course of 15 years have established a known reputation. Attributes such as being honest, straight-forward, respectful, a hands-on teacher, and someone who genuinely cares about your growth as a player and a person. I've never met the man or obviously been coached by him, but I know these things to be true about him, based on his reputation. There are likely a dozen more outstanding qualities we could list and more beyond that, which none of us realize. Tomlin is flat-out one of the best leaders of men I've seen coaching in the NFL over the course of my 50 years watching the game from afar (and close up). I'm a graduate of the United States Army's Non-Commissioned Officer's Academy and hold both a master's and doctorate degree in educational leadership. So, if anyone wants to get into a debate on leadership or question my ability to make such an assessment, then simply be advised. The bottom line is that quality leadership is perhaps the most important attribute you look for in a head coach. The guy who can get grown men to run through the proverbial brick wall. Mike T has got that. If you don't think he does, then you aren't paying attention.

None of that however, should protect him from rightful criticism. We can start with the fact that we haven't won a playoff game since 2016 and let that be the ultimate scoreboard. We could talk about his attempted fix of the offensive issues from last year that were a failure on so many levels. We could talk about how every single year this team loses at least one game to a completely inferior opponent - or overall has a tendency to play to their opponent's level. Or his clock management skills. Or his oddly horrible use of the challenge flag, or again, maybe a dozen different things we could harp on. The bottom line is he is not perfect and eventually, that lack of playoff success will cancel-out every good thing Tomlin might bring to the table.

So, for you Tomlin haters on this thread - or on this site - I can clearly see where a lot of your position is born. I get your irritation.

But what I don't get, is how you completely dismiss Tomlin's outstanding qualities. How you ridicule him for being nothing more than an overpaid janitor, or in this latest attack, try to spin the reasons why pro bowl players would want to play for him. I don't understand your inability to acknowledge that he is universally respected by those across all levels of his trade. Your often vitriolic and vulgar responses to those who support Tomlin completely lack that substance and tone.

I think a lot of you guys who would prefer not having Tomlin as the HC, likely have some legitimate arguments. But the way you articulate it and dismiss the differing points of view, completely undermines your credibility, in my opinion. It reminds me of the larger divide in this nation that has been drawn down political lines. The anti-Tomlin group here perfectly reflects and embodies a particular side in that larger divide. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they are the exact same people.

Maybe if both sides could better understand and acknowledge the valid points across the table, then we wouldn't have these ridiculous and incessant flame wars.

This is a great post. No doubt about it. The fact that the Steelers (led by Ben) had ( 4th quarter comebacks this season alone (winning 6) and making the playoffs is testiment alone that he did not lose the locker-room or the players did not quit. Even in the loss to the Chiefs (down 42-21) Ben's last pass went down to the 3-yard line. I know it was garbage time but they could have easily quit as well.

I do believe in life even the best of people can get complacent in a job or role. Not saying Tomlin has but I do think he needs to show some playoff succuss before 2024 and his contract is renewed. That is a tall order but I think he must show he can still win in the playoffs.

As much as I respected Chas Noll and will always put him on the Mount Rushmore of NFL coaches, it was clear to see his time had come and gone.

Same with Tomlin, great early success but not so much lately. I hope he can turn it around.

[flippy]

why don't they come here when they're free agents?

I think it comes down to QB and chance to win a SuperBowl.

Mike Hilton said he chose Cincy cause of Burrow.

Im thinking teams with Burrow, Allen, Mahommes, Herbert have the best shot at landing top FAs cause they’re young with lots of upside at this point.

Then you might start questioning the coaches and orgs next. Chargers and Bills coaches flubbed their playoff chances so probably KC and Cincy are the top landing spots after this year with the upside potential. That’s if the money is there of course.

That said, Tomlin and the Steelers probably are a draw for the next tier of players if they have the money to offer. PIT is still a good landing spot, but there is the QB question. PIT probably falls in that next tier with teams like the Ravens who are generally well coached and going to be competitive with a good chance of at least making the playoffs.

[crushedspirit]

I think it comes down to QB and chance to win a SuperBowl.

Mike Hilton said he chose Cincy cause of Burrow.

Im thinking teams with Burrow, Allen, Mahommes, Herbert have the best shot at landing top FAs cause they’re young with lots of upside at this point.

Then you might start questioning the coaches and orgs next. Chargers and Bills coaches flubbed their playoff chances so probably KC and Cincy are the top landing spots after this year with the upside potential. That’s if the money is there of course.

That said, Tomlin and the Steelers probably are a draw for the next tier of players if they have the money to offer. PIT is still a good landing spot, but there is the QB question. PIT probably falls in that next tier with teams like the Ravens who are generally well coached and going to be competitive with a good chance of at least making the playoffs.

Good post

I'm sure many FAs go into the market with this type of thinking. It makes a world of sense, especially for the vets who haven't been to the big show yet.

[Flasteel]

This is a great post. No doubt about it. The fact that the Steelers (led by Ben) had ( 4th quarter comebacks this season alone (winning 6) and making the playoffs is testiment alone that he did not lose the locker-room or the players did not quit. Even in the loss to the Chiefs (down 42-21) Ben's last pass went down to the 3-yard line. I know it was garbage time but they could have easily quit as well.

I do believe in life even the best of people can get complacent in a job or role. Not saying Tomlin has but I do think he needs to show some playoff succuss before 2024 and his contract is renewed. That is a tall order but I think he must show he can still win in the playoffs.

As much as I respected Chas Noll and will always put him on the Mount Rushmore of NFL coaches, it was clear to see his time had come and gone.

Same with Tomlin, great early success but not so much lately. I hope he can turn it around.

My sentiments exactly. Excellent post!